R8 Peach Deal

tomajoha · August 2019

Yay it’s alive! Someone please kill my thread .... it was all a terrible mistake!

zepp76 · August 2019

Panama_Jack666 said:

gringopig said:

I still have mine but I have bought a set of Monty's PAF pickups and a soldering iron. Wish me luck!

Lovely top! Now get that pick guard off!

FTFY

mort · August 2019

tomajoha said:

Yay it’s alive! Someone please kill my thread .... it was all a terrible mistake!

Approaching its 1st birthday soon.......

terada · August 2019

certainly my favourite thread on the board so far

tony99 · August 2019

I was ready to pounce but I waited believing the R7's would be along next.......

I'm still waiting

TINMAN82 · August 2019

tony99 said:

I was ready to pounce but I waited believing the R7's would be along next.......

I'm still waiting

Think you’ll be waiting a while. An ad for a new £3k CS Les Paul DC junior from GAK popped up on my Facebook feed today. Ridiculous price for a plank of wood and single pickup.

dubber · August 2019

After promising myself I wouldn't buy another guitar on the Internet, I popped my Les Paul cherry and picked up one of these on a guitar splurge last summer, makes me smile every time I pick it up!

Jonathanthomas83 · August 2019

dubber said:

After promising myself I wouldn't buy another guitar on the Internet, I popped my Les Paul cherry and picked up one of these on a guitar splurge last summer, makes me smile every time I pick it up!

Dont get the lol on that, mine makes me smile too. Lovely guitars.

terada · August 2019

Jonathanthomas83 said:

dubber said:

After promising myself I wouldn't buy another guitar on the Internet, I popped my Les Paul cherry and picked up one of these on a guitar splurge last summer, makes me smile every time I pick it up!
Dont get the lol on that, mine makes me smile too. Lovely guitars.

Lol-ers gonna lol

Barnezy · August 2019

Mine is lovely. Couldn't be happier with it and the bargain price was the icing on the cake.

Juanfra3 · August 2019

I agree with Barnezy...still very happy with mine... although i noticed that some frets started to show some wear and flattened, ... what about yours? already refretted your R8?

johnl · August 2019

Mine has just gone in for its first refret this week. I honestly think these were still the deal of the century - although the way Gibson are handling PR at the moment perhaps they'll be going bankrupt again shortly. I'm hoping there's a warehouse full of SGs somewhere....

Barnezy · August 2019

Benefit of a refret is you can get the fretboard nicely sanded to remove any of the file marks.... not that they make any difference to the playability or sound.

Is it a fair observation that people generally get a bit obsessed with Gibson QC? Unless it's the top end one, I expect a few finishing faults, as they are players guitars. If I wanted a perfect display piece, I'd get a Collings and pay the price for that level of detail.

Elwood · August 2019

Barnezy said:

Benefit of a refret is you can get the fretboard nicely sanded to remove any of the file marks.... not that they make any difference to the playability or sound.

Is it a fair observation that people generally get a bit obsessed with Gibson QC? Unless it's the top end one, I expect a few finishing faults, as they are players guitars. If I wanted a perfect display piece, I'd get a Collings and pay the price for that level of detail.

Most would class an R8 as a top end guitar. Given it's a custom shop version celebrating one of the most revered years of LP manufacture. That's why people get hung up on it. 60 years of development and tooling marks on the fretboard.

Most manufactures Sub £500 guitars don't have the common faults that LP's have.

Musicman20 · August 2019

Barnezy said:

Benefit of a refret is you can get the fretboard nicely sanded to remove any of the file marks.... not that they make any difference to the playability or sound.

Is it a fair observation that people generally get a bit obsessed with Gibson QC? Unless it's the top end one, I expect a few finishing faults, as they are players guitars. If I wanted a perfect display piece, I'd get a Collings and pay the price for that level of detail.

I wouldn't accept ANY finishing faults, unless it is ex demo etc, on any guitar over the £700-800 mark. They should be flawless. If they can't make it perfect, why not? Are they rushing them?

£2,500 was the offer price, and they were a lot more normally. I ultimately sent mine back as it was just not as good as I expected, especially the initial wow factor. There were finish concerns that I could not accept.

Bizarrely, my £600 LP Tribute 2017 has a very very good fit and finish and I kept it over the R8!

Barnezy · August 2019

Were guitars produced in 1958 flawless? I'm not sure.

Were they rushed? I'm sure they were. Gibson probably saw this as a quick way to generate some cashflow, to ease their bankruptcy issues. The upside is an affordable R8/9.

Are finishing flaws acceptable on a CS guitar? This is down to the individual. I think they are, as it's part of being made by hand.

Could they be perfect? Yes, but the amount of time needed for this, you'd be expecting to pay a lot more. Look how much Collings charge for this attention to detail.

crunchman · August 2019

Barnezy said:

Were guitars produced in 1958 flawless? I'm not sure.

Were they rushed? I'm sure they were. Gibson probably saw this as a quick way to generate some cashflow, to ease their bankruptcy issues. The upside is an affordable R8/9.

Are finishing flaws acceptable on a CS guitar? This is down to the individual. I think they are, as it's part of being made by hand.

Could they be perfect? Yes, but the amount of time needed for this, you'd be expecting to pay a lot more. Look how much Collings charge for this attention to detail.

Sanding the fretboard before putting frets in is basic. I managed it on the guitar I built at Crimson. I had an ES339 a few years ago that had really bad tool marks on the fingerboard. I managed to install the frets without leaving it like that 339. If I can do a better job with my complete lack of experience, then Gibson should be able to on a Custom Shop guitar.

Having said that. I do like my R9.

Fifty9 · August 2019

We’re they ‘seconds’? Some seem to have been but I can’t find anything wrong with mine.

Fortheloveofguitar · August 2019

Mine had a minor scuff in the laquer on the side of the body and that’s it

Wasnt going to send it back for that as it’s an unbelievable guitar

Barnezy · August 2019

crunchman said:

Barnezy said:

Were guitars produced in 1958 flawless? I'm not sure.

Were they rushed? I'm sure they were. Gibson probably saw this as a quick way to generate some cashflow, to ease their bankruptcy issues. The upside is an affordable R8/9.

Are finishing flaws acceptable on a CS guitar? This is down to the individual. I think they are, as it's part of being made by hand.

Could they be perfect? Yes, but the amount of time needed for this, you'd be expecting to pay a lot more. Look how much Collings charge for this attention to detail.

Sanding the fretboard before putting frets in is basic. I managed it on the guitar I built at Crimson. I had an ES339 a few years ago that had really bad tool marks on the fingerboard. I managed to install the frets without leaving it like that 339. If I can do a better job with my complete lack of experience, then Gibson should be able to on a Custom Shop guitar.

Having said that. I do like my R9.

I'm sure Gibson's techs can make them flawless, however unlike yourself, where you had days to construct your guitar, Gibson techs will have quota's for the amount they produce in a single day. This is because Gibson carry huge overheads as a business, especially keeping production in the US, that they need to cover. Just compare the cost of an equivalent PRS or Collings which generally would be considered a consistently well finished US made guitar. McCarty £3,800, CL £5,800 respectively.

Is the 2017 R8 a £3,800 guitar, reduced to £2,500? No.

Does it represent good value against its closest peers at 2:3 and 1:2 their cost? I think so.

Mine is personally fairly well finished. There are some file marks around the binding of the fretboard but nothing that bothers me. Would I pay an extra £1,000 for these to not be there?.... Deffinately not.

crunchman · August 2019

Barnezy said:

crunchman said:

Barnezy said:

Were guitars produced in 1958 flawless? I'm not sure.

Were they rushed? I'm sure they were. Gibson probably saw this as a quick way to generate some cashflow, to ease their bankruptcy issues. The upside is an affordable R8/9.

Are finishing flaws acceptable on a CS guitar? This is down to the individual. I think they are, as it's part of being made by hand.

Could they be perfect? Yes, but the amount of time needed for this, you'd be expecting to pay a lot more. Look how much Collings charge for this attention to detail.

Sanding the fretboard before putting frets in is basic. I managed it on the guitar I built at Crimson. I had an ES339 a few years ago that had really bad tool marks on the fingerboard. I managed to install the frets without leaving it like that 339. If I can do a better job with my complete lack of experience, then Gibson should be able to on a Custom Shop guitar.

Having said that. I do like my R9.

I'm sure Gibson's techs can make them flawless, however unlike yourself, where you had days to construct your guitar, Gibson techs will have quota's for the amount they produce in a single day. This is because Gibson carry huge overheads as a business, especially keeping production in the US, that they need to cover. Just compare the cost of an equivalent PRS or Collings which generally would be considered a consistently well finished US made guitar. McCarty £3,800, CL £5,800 respectively.

Is the 2017 R8 a £3,800 guitar, reduced to £2,500? No.

Does it represent good value against its closest peers at 2:3 and 1:2 their cost? I think so.

Mine is personally fairly well finished. There are some file marks around the binding of the fretboard but nothing that bothers me. Would I pay an extra £1,000 for these to not be there?.... Deffinately not.

At full retail, the R8 is more expensive than a McCarty 594. The PRS is for sale at around £3.4k in various outlets. You won't find those kinds of flaws on the PRS. You won't even find those kinds of flaws on a PRS SE.

Don't get me wrong, I like Gibson. I've got three of them and I've sold all my PRS guitars, but their quality control has been poor in the past, and anyone who denies it is deluding themselves.

We wait to see if the JC regime manages to sort out the QC.

Barnezy · August 2019

crunchman said:

Barnezy said:

crunchman said:

Barnezy said:

Were guitars produced in 1958 flawless? I'm not sure.

Were they rushed? I'm sure they were. Gibson probably saw this as a quick way to generate some cashflow, to ease their bankruptcy issues. The upside is an affordable R8/9.

Are finishing flaws acceptable on a CS guitar? This is down to the individual. I think they are, as it's part of being made by hand.

Could they be perfect? Yes, but the amount of time needed for this, you'd be expecting to pay a lot more. Look how much Collings charge for this attention to detail.

Sanding the fretboard before putting frets in is basic. I managed it on the guitar I built at Crimson. I had an ES339 a few years ago that had really bad tool marks on the fingerboard. I managed to install the frets without leaving it like that 339. If I can do a better job with my complete lack of experience, then Gibson should be able to on a Custom Shop guitar.

Having said that. I do like my R9.

I'm sure Gibson's techs can make them flawless, however unlike yourself, where you had days to construct your guitar, Gibson techs will have quota's for the amount they produce in a single day. This is because Gibson carry huge overheads as a business, especially keeping production in the US, that they need to cover. Just compare the cost of an equivalent PRS or Collings which generally would be considered a consistently well finished US made guitar. McCarty £3,800, CL £5,800 respectively.

Is the 2017 R8 a £3,800 guitar, reduced to £2,500? No.

Does it represent good value against its closest peers at 2:3 and 1:2 their cost? I think so.

Mine is personally fairly well finished. There are some file marks around the binding of the fretboard but nothing that bothers me. Would I pay an extra £1,000 for these to not be there?.... Deffinately not.

At full retail, the R8 is more expensive than a McCarty 594. The PRS is for sale at around £3.4k in various outlets. You won't find those kinds of flaws on the PRS. You won't even find those kinds of flaws on a PRS SE.

Don't get me wrong, I like Gibson. I've got three of them and I've sold all my PRS guitars, but their quality control has been poor in the past, and anyone who denies it is deluding themselves.

We wait to see if the JC regime manages to sort out the QC.

Think we need to stop thinking of the 2017 R8 as a full priced R8 reduced to £2,500, and instead think of it as a standalone £2,500 CS guitar. These were clearly mass produced to generate cashflow.

Would I pay an extra £1,000 for a PRS US finish standard. No way.

PRS SE is produced with far lower overheads and outsourced to a third party that needs to maintain QC levels or PRS will move production to another factory. It's not apples for apples.

TINMAN82 · August 2019

Barnezy said:

crunchman said:

Barnezy said:

crunchman said:

Barnezy said:

Were guitars produced in 1958 flawless? I'm not sure.

Were they rushed? I'm sure they were. Gibson probably saw this as a quick way to generate some cashflow, to ease their bankruptcy issues. The upside is an affordable R8/9.

Are finishing flaws acceptable on a CS guitar? This is down to the individual. I think they are, as it's part of being made by hand.

Could they be perfect? Yes, but the amount of time needed for this, you'd be expecting to pay a lot more. Look how much Collings charge for this attention to detail.

Sanding the fretboard before putting frets in is basic. I managed it on the guitar I built at Crimson. I had an ES339 a few years ago that had really bad tool marks on the fingerboard. I managed to install the frets without leaving it like that 339. If I can do a better job with my complete lack of experience, then Gibson should be able to on a Custom Shop guitar.

Having said that. I do like my R9.

I'm sure Gibson's techs can make them flawless, however unlike yourself, where you had days to construct your guitar, Gibson techs will have quota's for the amount they produce in a single day. This is because Gibson carry huge overheads as a business, especially keeping production in the US, that they need to cover. Just compare the cost of an equivalent PRS or Collings which generally would be considered a consistently well finished US made guitar. McCarty £3,800, CL £5,800 respectively.

Is the 2017 R8 a £3,800 guitar, reduced to £2,500? No.

Does it represent good value against its closest peers at 2:3 and 1:2 their cost? I think so.

Mine is personally fairly well finished. There are some file marks around the binding of the fretboard but nothing that bothers me. Would I pay an extra £1,000 for these to not be there?.... Deffinately not.

At full retail, the R8 is more expensive than a McCarty 594. The PRS is for sale at around £3.4k in various outlets. You won't find those kinds of flaws on the PRS. You won't even find those kinds of flaws on a PRS SE.

Don't get me wrong, I like Gibson. I've got three of them and I've sold all my PRS guitars, but their quality control has been poor in the past, and anyone who denies it is deluding themselves.

We wait to see if the JC regime manages to sort out the QC.

Think we need to stop thinking of the 2017 R8 as a full priced R8 reduced to £2,500, and instead think of it as a standalone £2,500 CS guitar. These were clearly mass produced to generate cashflow.

Hang on...where has it ever been stated that these were produced as a budget R8 "special run" to generate quick cash?! I think its possible to be over apologetic on Gibsons' behalf (and I'm a Gibson fan with a 2013 R8).

At the most it has been suggested that some may have been seconds/ B Stock, which I think is quite likely. If they were R8s rushed or built down to a price then that affects their value significantly.

tomajoha · August 2019

I know the complexity of construction methods is worlds apart but the finishing I see currently coming of the Fender custom shop is superb - necks and fret work especially. It is because they are inherently a simpler guitar so the they get more time on the bench? PS I have no allegiance in the fender vs gibson debate, just wondering from a price/quality point of view?

Ossyrocks · August 2019

TINMAN82 said:
Think we need to stop thinking of the 2017 R8 as a full priced R8 reduced to £2,500, and instead think of it as a standalone £2,500 CS guitar. These were clearly mass produced to generate cashflow.

Hang on...where has it ever been stated that these were produced as a budget R8 "special run" to generate quick cash?! I think its possible to be over apologetic on Gibsons' behalf (and I'm a Gibson fan with a 2013 R8).

At the most it has been suggested that some may have been seconds/ B Stock, which I think is quite likely. If they were R8s rushed or built down to a price then that affects their value significantly.

Agreed, Gibson simply don't do this. The 2017 R8's and R9's were the pinnacle at the time. Inc the first time the "True Historic" parts had been put on a standard historic. Compared with the three 2014's I have had, my 2017's are superior in finish, and tone.

None of mine have any QS issues at all. All the fretboards are immaculate, ironically the one I am selling in the classifieds has the best board I have ever seen on a historic.

Re people receiving guitars with obvious flaws, I think it may depend a bit on where it came from. Peach gave me the option to refuse an R8 before they shipped because of a small ding and offered to ship me an alternative. I took that option and the guitar is superb. Peach also said openly that they had returned at least half a dozen guitars which they were not happy to sell on. I don't think the "box shifters" gave them much of a look over.

Rob

TINMAN82 · August 2019

Ossyrocks said:

TINMAN82 said:
Think we need to stop thinking of the 2017 R8 as a full priced R8 reduced to £2,500, and instead think of it as a standalone £2,500 CS guitar. These were clearly mass produced to generate cashflow.

Hang on...where has it ever been stated that these were produced as a budget R8 "special run" to generate quick cash?! I think its possible to be over apologetic on Gibsons' behalf (and I'm a Gibson fan with a 2013 R8).

At the most it has been suggested that some may have been seconds/ B Stock, which I think is quite likely. If they were R8s rushed or built down to a price then that affects their value significantly.

Agreed, Gibson simply don't do this. The 2017 R8's and R9's were the pinnacle at the time. Inc the first time the "True Historic" parts had been put on a standard historic. Compared with the three 2014's I have had, my 2017's are superior in finish, and tone.

None of mine have any QS issues at all. All the fretboards are immaculate, ironically the one I am selling in the classifieds has the best board I have ever seen on a historic.

Re people receiving guitars with obvious flaws, I think it may depend a bit on where it came from. Peach gave me the option to refuse an R8 before they shipped because of a small ding and offered to ship me an alternative. I took that option and the guitar is superb. Peach also said openly that they had returned at least half a dozen guitars which they were not happy to sell on. I don't think the "box shifters" gave them much of a look over.

Rob

Barnezy said:

crunchman said:

Barnezy said:

crunchman said:

Barnezy said:

Were guitars produced in 1958 flawless? I'm not sure.

Were they rushed? I'm sure they were. Gibson probably saw this as a quick way to generate some cashflow, to ease their bankruptcy issues. The upside is an affordable R8/9.

Are finishing flaws acceptable on a CS guitar? This is down to the individual. I think they are, as it's part of being made by hand.

Could they be perfect? Yes, but the amount of time needed for this, you'd be expecting to pay a lot more. Look how much Collings charge for this attention to detail.

Sanding the fretboard before putting frets in is basic. I managed it on the guitar I built at Crimson. I had an ES339 a few years ago that had really bad tool marks on the fingerboard. I managed to install the frets without leaving it like that 339. If I can do a better job with my complete lack of experience, then Gibson should be able to on a Custom Shop guitar.

Having said that. I do like my R9.

I'm sure Gibson's techs can make them flawless, however unlike yourself, where you had days to construct your guitar, Gibson techs will have quota's for the amount they produce in a single day. This is because Gibson carry huge overheads as a business, especially keeping production in the US, that they need to cover. Just compare the cost of an equivalent PRS or Collings which generally would be considered a consistently well finished US made guitar. McCarty £3,800, CL £5,800 respectively.

Is the 2017 R8 a £3,800 guitar, reduced to £2,500? No.

Does it represent good value against its closest peers at 2:3 and 1:2 their cost? I think so.

Mine is personally fairly well finished. There are some file marks around the binding of the fretboard but nothing that bothers me. Would I pay an extra £1,000 for these to not be there?.... Deffinately not.

At full retail, the R8 is more expensive than a McCarty 594. The PRS is for sale at around £3.4k in various outlets. You won't find those kinds of flaws on the PRS. You won't even find those kinds of flaws on a PRS SE.

Don't get me wrong, I like Gibson. I've got three of them and I've sold all my PRS guitars, but their quality control has been poor in the past, and anyone who denies it is deluding themselves.

We wait to see if the JC regime manages to sort out the QC.

Think we need to stop thinking of the 2017 R8 as a full priced R8 reduced to £2,500, and instead think of it as a standalone £2,500 CS guitar. These were clearly mass produced to generate cashflow.

Would I pay an extra £1,000 for a PRS US finish standard. No way.

PRS SE is produced with far lower overheads and outsourced to a third party that needs to maintain QC levels or PRS will move production to another factory. It's not apples for apples.

It is curious that Peach alone sent so many back. I wonder if that reflects “normal practice” with new shipments of Gibson historics (or Gibsons in general). I also doubt they’d ever need to do that with a Fender CS shipment. That said, it’s all speculation on my part as I have no insider knowledge. I also have no doubt many of the 2017s are exceptional.

terada · August 2019

Not that it’s an excuse for bad qc. But I think that fender get a real easy ride with this.

Ding it during construction or file file marks on the board? Add it to the pile to be reliced.

Really bad issue? Simple, just refinish then relic. Sell as a colour over colour and you’re quids in.

TINMAN82 · August 2019

terada said:

Not that it’s an excuse for bad qc. But I think that fender get a real easy ride with this.

Ding it during construction or file file marks on the board? Add it to the pile to be reliced.

Really bad issue? Simple, just refinish then relic. Sell as a colour over colour and you’re quids in.

Not saying Fenders are perfect (my AV52 tele needed a new nut from new) but I don’t think this is a great example. The vast majority of Fenders are poly finished. Relics from the custom shop (and the road worn series) are nitro. If they ding a poly finish I can’t see it going into the relic pile. Also, file marks have never been a feature of fretboard relicing.

But it’s true that QC issues aren't Gibson specific. My Jem 7v is a 10/10 on tone and playability but the neck bolt recesses and jack socket recess arn’t properly painted or finished. From what I gather that’s an accepted anomaly on jems which are otherwise well put together. Wouldn’t find paint issues on a PRS half the price. Strange.

Whitecat · August 2019

TINMAN82 said:

Wouldn’t find paint issues on a PRS half the price. Strange.

Uhhh, spend some time on some PRS groups on Facebook and you’ll find there are huge finish issues with PRS. V12 was a relative disaster and S2s suffered as well. I personally had an S2 replaced outright under warranty where the topcoat was bubbling on both the body and neck, and I traded away a Stripped 58 that had some flaking on the neck that thankfully the acquirer didn’t care about.

TINMAN82 · August 2019

Whitecat said:

TINMAN82 said:

Wouldn’t find paint issues on a PRS half the price. Strange.

Uhhh, spend some time on some PRS groups on Facebook and you’ll find there are huge finish issues with PRS. V12 was a relative disaster and S2s suffered as well. I personally had an S2 replaced outright under warranty where the topcoat was bubbling on both the body and neck, and I traded away a Stripped 58 that had some flaking on the neck that thankfully the acquirer didn’t care about.

I stand corrected. That’s certainly not their general reputation.

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