The cricket thread

sev112 · June 2023

10 dropped catches. Several of them understandable/difficult but those total far outweigh declaration and I still think Bairstow’s first innings was important given the rate and timing. Must admit I thought his 3 “drops/stumping Miss would be critical, but the large number of drops across the the team were more affecting

Teetonetal · June 2023

I dont really care that England lost. The declaration made some sense but was risky, however I really enjoy this ultra aggressive approach, it makes for a much better test match!

guitars4you · June 2023

Teetonetal said:

I dont really care that England lost. The declaration made some sense but was risky, however I really enjoy this ultra aggressive approach, it makes for a much better test match!

I do care but I know what you mean - As I said earlier Test match cricket is the real winner here - The interest generated and even talk you pick up around the street shows more have shown some interest in it - Apparently log ins via phone/pc was higher for this match than ever before to listen to TMS - Game like this can only be good for test match cricket

Tannin · June 2023

Actually, the only really different thing about Bazball is that it is England doing it. The West Indies in their pomp, several of the better Australian sides starting with the Don's, South Africa on a good day .... lots of sides have played Bazball.

Oh but (the foolish say) look at the figures! Bazball scores faster than Bradman's Australians or Clive Lloyd's Windies.

Yeah nahh.

These days we have bigger, more scientific bats that hit the ball a lot harder and further, we have smaller boundaries, we have more even, batsman-friendly pitches, various rule changes nearly all in favour of the bat, and batsmen are brought up on one-day and 20-20 which helps them hit harder.

So in reality, after allowing for the factors above Bazball is just normal, traditional aggressive cricket. It's not special. No-one invented anything different.

(Makes for a damn good match though. Always has. Watching good cricketers going hard never goes out of fashion.)

crunchman · June 2023

Cricket is more interesting on a pitch that offers a more even contest between bat and ball though. Those great WIndies and Australian sides had players with good techniques who could bat positively even when the ball was doing something.

This England side has three or four players who don't have the technique so they have requested boring flat pitches to mask that. It has come unstuck though as it helps the likes of Khawaja, who has always struggled against the moving ball in England.

sev112 · June 2023

In the modern day, does anyone (anyone…?) think / Agee that it’s about time we got rid of the LBW exceptions (pitching outside leg, and pitching outside off playing a shot) and just go for “if it would have hit the stumps you are out “ ?

crunchman · June 2023

sev112 said:

In the modern day, does anyone (anyone…?) think / Agee that it’s about time we got rid of the LBW exceptions (pitching outside leg, and pitching outside off playing a shot) and just go for “if it would have hit the stumps you are out “ ?

No. Sides would regularly be bowled out for under 50.

Bowlers would just bowl over the wicket outside leg, and wait for you to miss it. It would be difficult playing around your pad, and you would miss one. Shane Warne would have got about 2000 wickets bowling into the rough outside leg stump with that rule.

With the ball pitched outside leg all the time, offside shots would be pretty much non-existent, and leg side fields would be packed, so scoring would be much lower as well.

sev112 · June 2023

so because batsmen aren’t good enough to hit or block the ball, we should give them some protection ?

I have other radical thoughts … we should allow bowlers to “throw” the ball, well certainly especially spin bowlers ?

crosstownvamp · June 2023

During that match one of the pundits said something about there being a penalty run awarded if a fielder throws the ball at the stumps and breaks the wicket but the batter is in - and they said it was a bad rule.

Did I mishear? Was I dreaming?

I even looked under rules and there's nothing there.

Tannin · June 2023

Once again, England has chosen to go into the 2nd test without a specialist keeper. Given fair weather, expect Australia to go 2-nil up.

crunchman · June 2023

Tannin said:

Once again, England has chosen to go into the 2nd test without a specialist keeper. Given fair weather, expect Australia to go 2-nil up.

By all accounts, the pitch is green as well. The techniques of a lot of the English batsmen, including Bairstow, are likely to get exposed.

At least there is no spinner for him to miss stumpings off.

guitars4you · June 2023

crunchman said:

Tannin said:

Once again, England has chosen to go into the 2nd test without a specialist keeper. Given fair weather, expect Australia to go 2-nil up.

By all accounts, the pitch is green as well. The techniques of a lot of the English batsmen, including Bairstow, are likely to get exposed.

At least there is no spinner for him to miss stumpings off.

Looking back over many years, it is often a case that we don't pick the 'better' keeper - Alec Stewart was often chosen for instance - Before that Bob Taylor missed out many times

Agree about the techniques of our batsmen - It would be a gamble to put Bairstow in as an opener instead of Duckett, then play Foakes as keeper

Tannin · June 2023

^ Hmmm ... if you could pick from both squads, given a greentop, which bowlers would you select? You'd start with Cummins, then Hazelwood, then Starc. If you play 4 quicks, add any of Tongue, Broad, Boland, Neser, or Anderson.

If you are expecting swing rather than movement off the wicket, however, from the same squads, you'd pick Anderson and Broad first, then any of the Australian quicks, though Cummins is perhaps the best of them.

Surely England's best hope is to have a good batting strip with just a little bit in it and hope for the right weather to turn Anderson and Broad into the deadly swing masters they can be at their best and the Australian bats into rabbits.

So why prepare a greentop? It strikes me as suicidal.

guitars4you · June 2023

Tannin said:

^ Hmmm ... if you could pick from both squads, given a greentop, which bowlers would you select? You'd start with Cummins, then Hazelwood, then Starc. If you play 4 quicks, add any of Tongue, Broad, Boland, Neser, or Anderson.

If you are expecting swing rather than movement off the wicket, however, from the same squads, you'd pick Anderson and Broad first, then any of the Australian quicks, though Cummins is perhaps the best of them.

Surely England's best hope is to have a good batting strip with just a little bit in it and hope for the right weather to turn Anderson and Broad into the deadly swing masters they can be at their best and the Australian bats into rabbits.

So why prepare a greentop? It strikes me as suicidal.

And the Aussies have a good record at Lords - Only twice in the last 60 years have we beaten them at Lords - 8 draws and 9 defeats - And a few big defeats in there as well with a 405 run + 347 defeat in 2 of the last 3 games

crunchman · June 2023

guitars4you said:

crunchman said:

Tannin said:

Once again, England has chosen to go into the 2nd test without a specialist keeper. Given fair weather, expect Australia to go 2-nil up.

By all accounts, the pitch is green as well. The techniques of a lot of the English batsmen, including Bairstow, are likely to get exposed.

At least there is no spinner for him to miss stumpings off.

Looking back over many years, it is often a case that we don't pick the 'better' keeper - Alec Stewart was often chosen for instance - Before that Bob Taylor missed out many times

Agree about the techniques of our batsmen - It would be a gamble to put Bairstow in as an opener instead of Duckett, then play Foakes as keeper

The stupid thing with Stewart is that it affected his batting. He averaged 46 when playing as a batsman, and 34 when he had the gloves.

If you go back to the 1997 Ashes, Stewart had the gloves so that that we could fit in batsmen like John Crawley (average 34.6) or Ramprakash (average 27)

Jack Russell averaged 27, the same as Ramprakash, so we made the batting worse and the keeping worse.

guitars4you · June 2023

crunchman said:

guitars4you said:

crunchman said:

Tannin said:

Once again, England has chosen to go into the 2nd test without a specialist keeper. Given fair weather, expect Australia to go 2-nil up.

By all accounts, the pitch is green as well. The techniques of a lot of the English batsmen, including Bairstow, are likely to get exposed.

At least there is no spinner for him to miss stumpings off.

Looking back over many years, it is often a case that we don't pick the 'better' keeper - Alec Stewart was often chosen for instance - Before that Bob Taylor missed out many times

Agree about the techniques of our batsmen - It would be a gamble to put Bairstow in as an opener instead of Duckett, then play Foakes as keeper

The stupid thing with Stewart is that it affected his batting. He averaged 46 when playing as a batsman, and 34 when he had the gloves.

If you go back to the 1997 Ashes, Stewart had the gloves so that that we could fit in batsmen like John Crawley (average 34.6) or Ramprakash (average 27)

Jack Russell averaged 27, the same as Ramprakash, so we made the batting worse and the keeping worse.

I was listening to TMS on the last day of the Edgbaston test and they were talking about the batting ave's of Bairstow and indeed other keepers and most had a better career ave in the 1st innings of a match - Less so 2nd, 3rd or 4th innings - ie before they spent time behind the stumps - One of the commentators asked about Gilchrist's stats and the statistician said I'll get back to you in a minute - However I missed the answer/reply

RandallFlagg · June 2023

The Aussie batters who missed out at Edgbaston will be keen to make up the lost runs at Lords and England could be in for a heavy thumping here, can we bowl well enough? Anderson was mediocre and we can't just rely on Broads occasional flashes.

to go 0-2 down will heap on the pressure on Bazball and Stokes

Tannin · June 2023

guitars4you said:

I was listening to TMS on the last day of the Edgbaston test and they were talking about the batting ave's of Bairstow and indeed other keepers and most had a better career ave in the 1st innings of a match - Less so 2nd, 3rd or 4th innings - ie before they spent time behind the stumps - One of the commentators asked about Gilchrist's stats and the statistician said I'll get back to you in a minute - However I missed the answer/reply

Gilchrist averaged:

Batting 1st: 44.48
Batting 2nd: 59.54
Batting 3rd: 37.12
Batting last: 35.4

Gassage · June 2023

That's the first thing Bairstow's caught all series.

Tannin · June 2023

Good work that man with the pads!

RandallFlagg · June 2023

RandallFlagg said:

The Aussie batters who missed out at Edgbaston will be keen to make up the lost runs at Lords and England could be in for a heavy thumping here, can we bowl well enough? Anderson was mediocre and we can't just rely on Broads occasional flashes.

to go 0-2 down will heap on the pressure on Bazball and Stokes

Stodgy pitch, bowling not good enough...England fooked.

Tannin · June 2023

Warner: 50 before lunch. It can only go one of two ways from here.

Gassage · June 2023

RandallFlagg said:

RandallFlagg said:

The Aussie batters who missed out at Edgbaston will be keen to make up the lost runs at Lords and England could be in for a heavy thumping here, can we bowl well enough? Anderson was mediocre and we can't just rely on Broads occasional flashes.

to go 0-2 down will heap on the pressure on Bazball and Stokes

Stodgy pitch, bowling not good enough...England fooked.

If catches taken, 3 down.

guitars4you · June 2023

Tannin said:

guitars4you said:

I was listening to TMS on the last day of the Edgbaston test and they were talking about the batting ave's of Bairstow and indeed other keepers and most had a better career ave in the 1st innings of a match - Less so 2nd, 3rd or 4th innings - ie before they spent time behind the stumps - One of the commentators asked about Gilchrist's stats and the statistician said I'll get back to you in a minute - However I missed the answer/reply

Gilchrist averaged:

Batting 1st: 44.48
Batting 2nd: 59.54
Batting 3rd: 37.12
Batting last: 35.4

Thanks

guitars4you · June 2023

Gassage said:

RandallFlagg said:

RandallFlagg said:

The Aussie batters who missed out at Edgbaston will be keen to make up the lost runs at Lords and England could be in for a heavy thumping here, can we bowl well enough? Anderson was mediocre and we can't just rely on Broads occasional flashes.

to go 0-2 down will heap on the pressure on Bazball and Stokes

Stodgy pitch, bowling not good enough...England fooked.

If catches taken, 3 down.

Jesus - Pope missed a sitter

scrumhalf · June 2023

Uh oh. We're getting battered.

RandallFlagg · June 2023

The pitches so far have not helped the England bowlers, will be interesting to see how the Aussie quicks go, I expect this to go to an Aussie declaration 400-500 or so.

guitars4you · June 2023

Root and Root again - Kind of some credibility about the day, but the quickies have not taken advantage of today's conditions - Overall it is Aussies day

Mellish · June 2023

It's not what you'd want, having won the toss and elected to bowl.
Dropped chances, inconsistent bowling, and didn't someone say In commentary that we have only won a Test against Oz ar Lords twice in the last 60 years?

chris78 · June 2023

I texted a mate after the toss whos an ex bowler and played at a very good level. He works on the theory you should always bat first. My text was “decent day for a bowl” his reply “It’s definitely a day I’d think about bowling…..before having a bat.”
Needless to say I rightly took some stick.

Yet again, 4 quick medium right arm bowlers supported by a crocked skipper and part time spinner. Scary the part timer was the pick. Lyon will be licking his lips. We’ll lose this by an innings I’m afraid.

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