The cricket thread

camf · February 2021

Great performance, especially from the senior players.

guitars4you · February 2021

Not seen it yet, but many are talking about the over from Jimmy Anderson - Will catch it later

scrumhalf · February 2021

guitars4you said:

Not seen it yet, but many are talking about the over from Jimmy Anderson - Will catch it later

Do not miss it, the old bugger's getting better with age. Someone's bound to put it up on youtube.

Stuckfast · February 2021

Brilliant win. Woke up this morning expecting the game to be meandering to a draw and India were nine down.

Imagine how good England will be if Leach and Bess can bowl consistently well for an entire game, not just the odd spell.

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

sixstringsupplies said:

I seem to be in the minority in thinking that England have played a master stroke. India will not score 381 in 90 overs, on that wicket. By batting as long as England did, it completely changes the mindset of the Indian batting line up. Now they have to think about survival, for 90 overs, on that wicket. If England had declared with the lead of 370 ish, it would have dangled a carrot which this Indian batting line up could chase, if there were 110-120 overs to get the target.

I think my own ramblings supported the England approach. Yes, the spell after tea was inexplicable with bat and the plodding around in the field. But all the bases were covered. Too many runs for oppo to score means the draw was absolutely secure. Leave yourself enough time to bowl them out and to ensure a second new ball? Done.

Neill · February 2021

guitars4you said:

Not seen it yet, but many are talking about the over from Jimmy Anderson - Will catch it later

There was a patch on the wicket that if hit made the ball unplayable. Ben Stokes did Kohli with it and he looked truly disgusted, quite right too. It was a heck of a good toss to win, England shouldn't get too complacent.

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

Stuckfast said:

Brilliant win. Woke up this morning expecting the game to be meandering to a draw and India were nine down.

Imagine how good England will be if Leach and Bess can bowl consistently well for an entire game, not just the odd spell.

Leach's match figures were 50 overs, 9 maidens, 178 runs, 6 wickets, SR of 50.

Take the Pant spell out (9 overs, 0 maidens, 77 runs, 0 wickets) and the end result would be 41 overs, 9 maidens, 101 runs, 6 wickets.

In other words: he was fine against everyone bar one dude, and that dude in his last three Tests scored heavily against "the best attack in Australian history" at Sydney and Brisbane and has now filled his boots on home turf. What happened to Leach wasn't like Simon Kerrigan collapsing against Shane Watson. It's just a batsman in some serious form trusting his eye and his technique and going for it.

One of the instructive parts of the Test was the footage of Leach bowling with Jeetan Patel. He was working on firing the ball directly into the coaching mitt as part of the overhaul of his bowling approach that started last year. Going through such a change is hard enough when you have regular cricket under your belt. last summer he wasn't considered the lead spinner and carried drinks and worked in the nets outside of two FC games for Somerset. going into this winter, he's now put in the role of senior spinner whilst still not being totally comfortable with the change in bowling style and the pressure is really on because everyone expects you to take hatloads of wickets whilst going for naff all runs. First time in India, the home team are chock full of confidence after stuffing Australia in their back yard, and then you get tonked. Fair shout to JL to come back the way he has.

Going to India is a tough bastard task. When Shane Warne played his first Test in India, he had 64 Tests and 303 wickets under his belt. His series figures were not pretty:

3 Tests, 167 overs, 37 maidens, 10 wickets at 54, SR of 100.

So if a guy like that can go to India and find it hard then two inexperienced spinners with 26 Tests between them are gonna be hit with a hell of a challenge.

crunchman · February 2021

Pant had a bit of luck as well. There was one six that only just cleared Joffra Archer. 2m less carry and he was gone. There was also a top edged sweep that went over the keeper's head and fell safe. I think that was Pant as well. Playing that kind of game is a risk.

Where England had some luck was with the Pujara dismissal in the first innings.

crunchman · February 2021

Moeen leaking runs, same as ever.

Bess didn't have a great game last time, but at least he's young, and is improving. He's probably a better bat than Moeen these days as well. When Moeen come ins India can just bring Ishant on and bounce him.

bencowling81 · February 2021

crunchman said:

Moeen leaking runs, same as ever.

Bess didn't have a great game last time, but at least he's young, and is improving. He's probably a better bat than Moeen these days as well. When Moeen come ins India can just bring Ishant on and bounce him.

Agreed. The only logic I can think for picking Moeen ahead of Bess is to protect Bess from a demoralising hammering so early in his career. Stone looks good.

crunchman · February 2021

Third umpire seems a bit clueless

scrumhalf · February 2021

crunchman said:

Third umpire seems a bit clueless

That's very, very kind. We should get that review back given that the third umpire didn't review what was queried.

crunchman · February 2021

scrumhalf said:

crunchman said:

Third umpire seems a bit clueless

That's very, very kind. We should get that review back given that the third umpire didn't review what was queried.

The match referee gave the review back. What would have happened though if he had gone on to make a big score instead of getting out in the next over?

The stumping a bit before that looked iffy as well. I couldn't see any part of the batsman's foot grounded behind the line. Very smart piece of work from Foakes.

Stuckfast · February 2021

Foakes' keeping was brilliant today. It'll be interesting to see how well Pant does with the gloves on this track.

I am a fan of Moeen even though he's frustrating. He gives the ball a massive rip and although that means he's not always consistent, it does let him produce deliveries like the one that got Kohli.

I fear that big stand between Rohit and Rahane has done for us though.

rocktron · February 2021

crunchman said:

The stumping a bit before that looked iffy as well. I couldn't see any part of the batsman's foot grounded behind the line. Very smart piece of work from Foakes.

From what I could see, the batsman's foot was on the line, and not behind the line.

I don't know what Wisden's rules say about that.

scrumhalf · February 2021

The line belongs to the umpire, the foot/bat must be grounded behind the line.

crunchman · February 2021

rocktron said:

crunchman said:

The stumping a bit before that looked iffy as well. I couldn't see any part of the batsman's foot grounded behind the line. Very smart piece of work from Foakes.

From what I could see, the batsman's foot was on the line, and not behind the line.

I don't know what Wisden's rules say about that.

On the line is out. Has to have something behind.

Stuckfast said:

Foakes' keeping was brilliant today. It'll be interesting to see how well Pant does with the gloves on this track.

I am a fan of Moeen even though he's frustrating. He gives the ball a massive rip and although that means he's not always consistent, it does let him produce deliveries like the one that got Kohli.

I fear that big stand between Rohit and Rahane has done for us though.

Michael Vaughan bowled deliveries like that (famously against Tendulkar). That doesn't mean I'd pick Vaughan as a frontline spinner.

The pitch today was turning a lot more than the one from the first test. Dom Bess would have got the ball doing things as well. On that pitch, to go at 4.3 an over is too much. It's telling that Root was bowling at the end with the new ball.

At this point in his career, we know what Moeen is. Bess is young and improving. He would benefit from the experience and get better.

sixstringsupplies · February 2021

I can't get my head around how India did not lose a review because Kohli did not believe he was bowled?
Or was it not an official review and the umpires decided to check? The silence was deafening.

I wonder if umpires in India feel pressure from the crowds?
I read an article last night about how Dale Steyn was convinced he had Tendulkar out LBW when he was in the 190's (on his way to being the first to score an 200 in an ODI) but the umpire told him he wanted to get home alive haha!

Get the heavy roller on it between innings

Somebody else needs to step up with the batting.

Stuckfast · February 2021

WTF is the third umpire playing at in this game? There is no way the batsman played a shot there.

Leach and Moeen bowling well in tandem here but it's a bit academic now.

guitars4you · February 2021

I think Rohit had the right idea in the 1st innings on this pitch - Be proactive and take them on - Might as well be out with a quick 30/40 attitude, as against prodding and hoping that you can stay in, yet 40 balls later you are out for 6 - So far it has been the difference - Ultra poor pitch

scrumhalf · February 2021

Stuckfast said:

WTF is the third umpire playing at in this game? There is no way the batsman played a shot there.

Leach and Moeen bowling well in tandem here but it's a bit academic now.

Before this test ther was a lot of talk about not needing neutral umpires because the overall standard of umpiring had improved andthere were three DRS appeals available. Maybe not so much now.

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

crunchman said:
Michael Vaughan bowled deliveries like that (famously against Tendulkar). That doesn't mean I'd pick Vaughan as a frontline spinner.

The pitch today was turning a lot more than the one from the first test. Dom Bess would have got the ball doing things as well. On that pitch, to go at 4.3 an over is too much. It's telling that Root was bowling at the end with the new ball.

At this point in his career, we know what Moeen is. Bess is young and improving. He would benefit from the experience and get better.

Something wasn't right with Bess in the 2nd innings of the 1st Test where he bowled like a drain. Maybe tiredness, maybe a bit of weariness given that he's a young guy who's been in the Covid bubble for a long time now.

Outside of him and Leach, our options are incredibly limited. Mason Crane has 1 Test under his belt, Matt Parkinson and Amar Virdi have none, Liam Dawson's injured, Rashid is apparently over at Test level and hasn't played any first-class cricket since the Bridgetown Test against the West Indies in Jan 2019. You look at the top wicket takers in the BWT last season and it's pretty scant on the spin front outside of Surrey colours.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=13701;type=tournament

Where do you go other than Moeen when you need a replacement? His bowling wasn't great first innings but that's what you'd expect for a guy who hasn't bowled in a first class match since September 12th 2019.

After a bit of complaints about our spinners, it's interesting to look at Leach versus Swann after they'd played 13 Tests.

13 Tests, 23 innings, 506.1 overs, 50 wickets at 30.46. SR of 60.7.
13 Tests, 23 innings, 562.3 overs. 53 wickets at 31.32, SR of 63.6.

scrumhalf · February 2021

Indian tailenders are now taking the piss. I only hope we can get within 300 of the target, when it comes.

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

scrumhalf said:

Indian tailenders are now taking the piss. I only hope we can get within 300 of the target, when it comes.

I was happy to settle for being with 400!

crunchman · February 2021

If anyone ever makes me England coach, there will be no nightwatchmen.

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

Not on that pitch. I can see the rationale for a nightwatchman if you had another day to bat, plenty of wickets and you could either save or win the game. In this instance, there is no logic to it. England were not going to win or draw. Illogical and, for all the talk on the telly from Strauss about England needing to show intent, it showed a lack of intent.

Rich210 · February 2021

I was thinking this too. The best chance England have of getting anything is by having their best batters against spin in and trying to get in.

As a wicketkeeper it's definitely a fun one....

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

So: Joe Denly's last 8 Tests: 478 runs at 34. Not good enough, dropped.

Rory Burns in his last 8 Tests: 312 runs at 24.

Crawley and Sibley as our opening pair this summer?

Stuckfast · February 2021

I thought Moeen bowled well in the second innings. To my mind he's just a better, more attacking bowler than Bess, at least when he's in some sort of form. Looked like he was always making something happen and could easily have picked up more wickets.

I've not seen Virdi or Moriarty bowl but they're both said to be very promising. I can't see either Parkinson or Crane doing well on a track like this -- they're both too slow through the air.

Nice to see the third umpire give Root something back there. How DRS called that Umpire's Call I've no idea.

crunchman · February 2021

Heartfeltdawn said:

So: Joe Denly's last 8 Tests: 478 runs at 34. Not good enough, dropped.

Rory Burns in his last 8 Tests: 312 runs at 24.

Crawley and Sibley as our opening pair this summer?

Who bats 3?

Crawley looks like a solution to number 3, which has been a problem for years. I'm not convinced that Lawrence has the capability to bat at 3 in places like Australia.

One option would be to use Stokes higher up the order like SA did with Kallis.

Are they going to have to shoehorn Buttler in as a batsman? Foakes is averaging something like 47 at the moment. If he keeps going like that, then he should definitely stay in. Buttler is then fighting for a spot at 5 or 6 with the likes of Pope and Lawrence.

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