The cricket thread

GSPBASSES · February 2021

The only problem with Channel 4 having this test series they don’t have a highlight show later in the evening, Sky should’ve had it then we would’ve had highlight shows throughout the day.

bencowling81 · February 2021

crunchman

The chances of losing with 520 on the board are negligible. That was really negative play.

Yeah, but... https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2016-17-1030195/india-vs-england-5th-test-1034817/full-scorecard

guitars4you · February 2021

bencowling81 said:

crunchman

The chances of losing with 520 on the board are negligible. That was really negative play.

Yeah, but... https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2016-17-1030195/india-vs-england-5th-test-1034817/full-scorecard

Some may recall Eng v Aussies - 2006 at Adelaide - And after 1 innings each you would not have thought time for a win for anyone

Eng 1st - 551 for 6 and declared

Aus 1st - 513 all out

Eng 2nd - 129 all out

Aus 2nd - 168-4

So 551 runs and declare and loose - Yes exceptional circumstances - But it does sound as though the pitch is breaking up - If the 2 spinners can do decent job then we are in with a shout

crunchman · February 2021

guitars4you said:

bencowling81 said:

crunchman

The chances of losing with 520 on the board are negligible. That was really negative play.

Yeah, but... https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2016-17-1030195/india-vs-england-5th-test-1034817/full-scorecard

Some may recall Eng v Aussies - 2006 at Adelaide - And after 1 innings each you would not have thought time for a win for anyone

Eng 1st - 551 for 6 and declared

Aus 1st - 513 all out

Eng 2nd - 129 all out

Aus 2nd - 168-4

So 551 runs and declare and loose - Yes exceptional circumstances - But it does sound as though the pitch is breaking up - If the 2 spinners can do decent job then we are in with a shout

You can't live in fear of something like that though.

The circumstances are't the same anyway. In that one where England scored 477 and lost, England were bowled out 6 overs after tea. That gave India nearly an hour and a half to bat, and they were 60-0 at the end of the day, only 417 behind. Given England's scoring rate in this innings, there was a lot less time left in the day. India would still have been 480 or so behind at the end of the day even with a total collapse from England. That 60 run difference is the best part of an extra session taken out of the game. India wouldn't have overtaken England's score until late on day 4. You have to back yourself in that situation.

In Adelaide, England batted dreadfully in the second innings. If you let your strategy be dictated by fear of incompetent batting, you are not in a good place. This Indian attack is not quite the 2006 Aussie attack either. Ashwin is a good bowler, but he's not Warne.

Making the final of the World Test Championship is a long shot for England as they have to win 3 matches in this series, but to have any chance they need to be aggressive. Batting on at a slow pace like that has taken a lot of time out of the game, and significantly increased the odds of the match finishing as a draw.

Stuckfast · February 2021

Yes but England's strategy for the series has to be based around exhausting the Indian attack. In the 180 overs we've had so far, only Bumrah, Ishant and Ashwin have looked threatening. Ashwin's already bowled 50+ overs. We're playing four Tests in a short space of time.

bencowling81 · February 2021

I’m on the fence. I think I’m going to come back at lunchtime tomorrow and award wisdom retrospectively

guitars4you · February 2021

crunchman said:

guitars4you said:

bencowling81 said:

crunchman

The chances of losing with 520 on the board are negligible. That was really negative play.

Yeah, but... https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2016-17-1030195/india-vs-england-5th-test-1034817/full-scorecard

Some may recall Eng v Aussies - 2006 at Adelaide - And after 1 innings each you would not have thought time for a win for anyone

Eng 1st - 551 for 6 and declared

Aus 1st - 513 all out

Eng 2nd - 129 all out

Aus 2nd - 168-4

So 551 runs and declare and loose - Yes exceptional circumstances - But it does sound as though the pitch is breaking up - If the 2 spinners can do decent job then we are in with a shout

You can't live in fear of something like that though.

The circumstances are't the same anyway. In that one where England scored 477 and lost, England were bowled out 6 overs after tea. That gave India nearly an hour and a half to bat, and they were 60-0 at the end of the day, only 417 behind. Given England's scoring rate in this innings, there was a lot less time left in the day. India would still have been 480 or so behind at the end of the day even with a total collapse from England. That 60 run difference is the best part of an extra session taken out of the game. India wouldn't have overtaken England's score until late on day 4. You have to back yourself in that situation.

In Adelaide, England batted dreadfully in the second innings. If you let your strategy be dictated by fear of incompetent batting, you are not in a good place. This Indian attack is not quite the 2006 Aussie attack either. Ashwin is a good bowler, but he's not Warne.

Making the final of the World Test Championship is a long shot for England as they have to win 3 matches in this series, but to have any chance they need to be aggressive. Batting on at a slow pace like that has taken a lot of time out of the game, and significantly increased the odds of the match finishing as a draw.

I think the issue with the Aussie game was England knew they could not win after the end of the Aussie 2nd innings - Not enough time left to build up a decent lead and then bowl out the Aussies - So they batted with very little objective/purpose

Anyway back to now and 235-6 looking handy

ennspek · February 2021

Roooooooot

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

crunchman said:

scrumhalf said:

Rooooooooot!

First batsman to get a double ton in his hundredth test. What a player, in the form of his life.

Would you have declared to have a half-hour at the Indian batsmen tonight?

Yes

When they reached 500 they should have just thrown the bat. Worst case you are bowled out for 520, and tired Indian batsmen who have been in field for nearly 2 days have a nasty session to survive. Best case, you make 60 quick runs and declare and still give yourself a chance at the batsmen.

The chances of losing with 520 on the board are negligible. That was really negative play.

Had the pitch being doing a lot more, then it would have been negative play but it's not bad really.

Unless India really collapsed badly in the first innings, we were never going to enforce the follow-on as subjecting the bowlers to two consecutive innings work is hard on a short rapid tour like that and England batting last on a day 5 Indian wicket is something we really don't need. The more we batted in the first innings, the less we have to bat in the second innings if we do get India out for a below par total.

If we are to win, then we need to roll them in the first session tomorrow. 30 overs bowled, 90 runs added, all out for 350. That gives us a lead of 228. We then bat for a session and a bit and go for a bit of a smear session. 40 overs. 160 added, leaving them 389 for victory in 110 overs. That gives us 20 overs at the end of Day 4 at them, 90 overs on Day 5 with a new ball in the final session.

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

GSPBASSES said:

The only problem with Channel 4 having this test series they don’t have a highlight show later in the evening, Sky should’ve had it then we would’ve had highlight shows throughout the day.

Highlights online:

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/cricket-india-v-england

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

And a word for the West Indies. Winning on Day 5 on a turning wicket with a team lacking so many of the established names, with a rookie guy in Mayers scoring a double ton... amazing. Remember that we lost out in Bangladesh a little over four years ago. Only two of that side are in the current Test XI for England. How times change.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-bdesh-2016-17-1029813/bangladesh-vs-england-2nd-test-1029827/full-scorecard

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

And there we go. First session rolled.

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

Those first two overs of our reply demonstrate ably why we aren't enforcing the follow-on and chasing a total.

'tis a good thing Jadeja isn't playing. A spinner who bowls a bit quicker and into the pitch would be lethal on this. Kumble in his prime would be smoking on this track.

guitars4you · February 2021

So how big a lead do you think we need before we declare

Coupled with, will one day be enough for us to bowl out India

350/380 should be enough to avoid defeat with only 1 day to acquire such runs - But is one day enough to bowl them out - Thinking of a few good rear guard sessions for them in Australia recently

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

Like I said above for my rough plan:

"If we are to win, then we need to roll them in the first session tomorrow. 30 overs bowled, 90 runs added, all out for 350. That gives us a lead of 228. We then bat for a session and a bit and go for a bit of a smear session. 40 overs. 160 added, leaving them 389 for victory in 110 overs. That gives us 20 overs at the end of Day 4 at them, 90 overs on Day 5 with a new ball in the final session."

The reality right now:

We dismissed them for 337, lead of 241. Currently 119 for 5, a lead of 360, with 40 overs left in the day. A change of innings means 2 overs being deducted from the overs to bowl that day. Effectively to have 20 overs to bowl at them tonight, giving both seamers and spinners a chance with the new ball, we've got another 18 overs to bat. At this current rate of 4.43, that's 79 runs rounded down, giving us a lead of 439. 20 overs at them tonight, 90 overs tomorrow with a new ball after 80 overs bowled, which should be around the start of the final session, thus giving everyone a break before having a go with the new cherry.

If we're scoring quick enough, you could consider declaring 10 overs earlier but then you have to factor when to take the second new ball into proceedings.

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

BBC live text guys are awful. Going along at 4.40 on a pitch doing all sorts, a scoring rate quicker than both sides went at over their first innings, the pitch is doing a bit, there's also some reverse swing in the air, you have to strike the balance between scoring quickly and not collapsing and handing potential victory over, and the text crew are griping that it's not quick enough. Jeez, go back to the Big Bash if this is too complicated for you.

39 overs left at tea. Take two away for the innings change so give it 17 overs to bat @ 4 runs an over (74) giving us a lead of 434. We are absolutely on track right now. Declare now and you're giving India a chance to score 360 runs in 127 overs. Not happening.

crunchman · February 2021

They are being far too negative now.

If this ends up as a draw, which is looking increasingly likely, then England only have themselves to blame.

crunchman · February 2021

They should be declaring now and Bess is wasting more time by reviewing.

At most they will get 16 overs at India tonight. That's 106 overs to bowl them out at most. There is no way that India are batting at all but 4 an over on that pitch. They have more than enough.

They are so negative.

scrumhalf · February 2021

Declare now, Leach and Archer aren't going to make a huge difference to a lead of, currently, 408.

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

crunchman said:

They should be declaring now and Bess is wasting more time by reviewing.

At most they will get 16 overs at India tonight. That's 106 overs to bowl them out at most. There is no way that India are batting at all but 4 an over on that pitch. They have more than enough.

They are so negative.

And there was no way the West Indies were going to win in Bangladesh with a team stacked with rookies who weren't great on slow wickets and even less chance of a win chasing near 400 on a turning wicket in the 4th innings...

And this.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2008-09-361035/india-vs-england-1st-test-361050/full-scorecard

Although now we've lost wickets, there is zero to gain from Jimmy striding out to bat.

crunchman · February 2021

At least Jimmy did the decent thing.

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

So 17 overs tonight. 90 tomorrow. New ball due after 80 overs about 45 before tea tomorrow.

Best get the sleep in this afternoon ready for an early start.

crunchman · February 2021

Heartfeltdawn said:

So 17 overs tonight. 90 tomorrow. New ball due after 80 overs about 45 before tea tomorrow.

Best get the sleep in this afternoon ready for an early start.

We aren't going to get anywhere near 17 overs tonight. There is only 50 minutes of play after the innings break, and that's including the extra half hour to make up time.

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

Maybe, maybe not.

Don't like Leach with the new ball. Stupid idea. Some spinners can bowl with the new ball. I hated it. Leach with a new ball, still with the thoughts of the 1st innings in his head, with an attacking field that gives him no protection... hiding to nothing.

Inauspicious start by England.

Heartfeltdawn · February 2021

Hello! OK, new ball does the trick...

sixstringsupplies · February 2021

I seem to be in the minority in thinking that England have played a master stroke. India will not score 381 in 90 overs, on that wicket. By batting as long as England did, it completely changes the mindset of the Indian batting line up. Now they have to think about survival, for 90 overs, on that wicket. If England had declared with the lead of 370 ish, it would have dangled a carrot which this Indian batting line up could chase, if there were 110-120 overs to get the target.

You saw how Stokes and Pant took the aggressive approach with the ball spinning out of the rough - it seems to be sort of wicket that if you prod about and try and survive, there will be a ball with your name on it at some point.

England only need to get 1 or 2 wickets in the first hour of play tomorrow....then the mentality of the India batting line up goes into defensive mode. As long as Leach and Bess put enough balls in good areas, I’d fully expect England to win.

Of course, if they don't win, we can moan

But if you don't get 9 wickets in 90 overs on that wicket with the batting team batting for the draw, then it will be your bowling and fielding that lets you down, rather than the delayed/elongated 2nd innings.

Great game either way. Waking up to Mambo No. 5 at 4am is very nostalgic!

scrumhalf · February 2021

If we win then Root will be a tactical genius. If we lose he deserves to be locked up in the Tower. Twas always thus, twill ever be.

I bet I get a good night's sleep, wake up late and miss half of the action.

scrumhalf · February 2021

Woke up five minutes before lunch.

Young Mr Anderson seems to be having a decent game.

guitars4you · February 2021

Job done - well done lads

scrumhalf · February 2021

You have to take your hat off to them for that performance, the lack of sleep doesn't matter so much now.

Well done lads.

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