The cricket thread

guitars4you · January 2021

scrumhalf said:

It's been a hell if a turn-round from 36 all out. I wonder how many of them will keep their place for the next test when the likes of Kohli & co will be back.

just my 10 penneth but I suspect that secretly Kohli will be pretty pee'd off that they won without him - Great batsman but does not come across as a decent person

Heartfeltdawn · January 2021

Stuckfast said:

Yes for players with no Test experience to come in and perform like that was amazing. Still think Aus should've rested Starc for this game, he's not been at his best.

He's changed his action quite a bit over the last year. the left arm is tighter to the body.

https://circleofcricket.com/category/Latest_news/55416/mitchell-starc-ready-to-challenge-speed-limits-after-modifying-his-bowling-action

After the first Test and India collapsing, we had articles heralding Paine's leadership, Lyon possibly hitting 700 or 800 Test wickets, and that this is the best Australian attack of all time.

Since that Test, Paine's folded under the pressure and resorted to classic Australian sledging. It doesn't work though. It's one thing to be sledged by Ponting, Border, Ponting, Warne, and the like, and another to be sledged by a 'keeper-captain without a Test ton, a dickhead like Matt Wade, and a Saffer turned Oz in Labuschagne (when I played, the Saffers were always the worst sledgers because they tried to do it the Oz way and it would come out sounding like playground language. It really was pathetic).

The best attacking Australian history couldn't dismiss India in the fourth innings in the last 3 tests (OK, they were chasing sod all in the 2nd but that ain't true of the 3rd and 4th Tests).

Mr 700/800 wickets off spinner has ended another major series being outbowled by his opposition spinners (Leach outbowled him in 2019, Ashwin, Jadeja, and Sundar have all outbowled him here).

The opening berths are still anyone's guess. Warner ain't getting any younger, Wade isn't good enough, Burns has had his chance and probably won't come back now, Marcus Harris looks good but doesn't seem to go on, Will Pucovski has talent but will get peppered with the short ball with his history of concussions and his injury record is not great. Outside of Marnus and Smith, there is nobody who gets an automatic berth in that side. Cameron Green came in on a stack of runs but so did Hilton Cartwright a few years ago and he's nowhere now.

The bowlers: Hazlewood and Cummins bowled out of their skins and looked flat by the end. India by virtue of injuries had fresh people there. There are some really good young quick bowlers in Australia: Billy Stanlake, Riley Meredith, Wes Agar. Folk like Michael Neser have been knocking on the door for some time. Needed someone in there fresh for that final test. As for the slow bowling, I like Lyon but it's just not been there. It is rare for oppo slow bowlers to come to Australia and outbowl the home guys.

Stuckfast · January 2021

Yes I wonder whether the selectors will keep faith with Paine. He hasn't had the runs to justify his place as a batsman, his keeping was poor and he lost his cool under pressure as captain. Is Labuschagne considered captaincy material? Warner and Smith can't take over, and none of the other batters has a secure enough place.

guitars4you · January 2021

Stuckfast said:

Yes I wonder whether the selectors will keep faith with Paine. He hasn't had the runs to justify his place as a batsman, his keeping was poor and he lost his cool under pressure as captain. Is Labuschagne considered captaincy material? Warner and Smith can't take over, and none of the other batters has a secure enough place.

I've not seen to much of this series - A few hi-light shows - But when they were over in 2019 for the Ashes, it was okay to say Paine was the captain, as far as the media were concerned etc, but on the pitch Smith was certainly having a major say - Not sure if this has undermined Paine and the team or not - Agree with @Heartfeltdawn about Paine's sledging - I'm not against good banter and the appropriate digs, but coming from Paine doesn't mean the same thing

As always you can never be upset about any Aussie team losing a match/series - But you know they will be back - They might be our enemy, but they are an enemy that we like to watch and truth be known admire, especially when they are at the top of their game

Heartfeltdawn · January 2021

Stuckfast said:

Yes I wonder whether the selectors will keep faith with Paine. He hasn't had the runs to justify his place as a batsman, his keeping was poor and he lost his cool under pressure as captain. Is Labuschagne considered captaincy material? Warner and Smith can't take over, and none of the other batters has a secure enough place.

Considering it's his weakest forte, the runs haven't been the problem in this series ironically enough. His keeping has been bad, no question. Third Test saw one of the classic 'trying to make up for earlier mistakes' moves when he moved in gor a catch going straight to first slip and shelled it. the mental side of it has been an utter collapse. When India last came over, there was a lot said about the jokey sledging that happened. it was refreshing and rather amusing. That faded very quickly this year to simply stupid annoying stuff.

Over the last few decades, Australia have gone for the gun batsman as captain. Problem is, both guns in the team now (Warner and Smith) can't do it because of their involvement in the sandpaper cheating, a previous vice captain in Travis Head is out of the side, and Labuschagne isn't the captain of his state at the minute (Usman Khawaja is). There is talk of this changing in order to boost his Test captaincy chances. However it's also fair that some might not see him as a fair dinkum Aussie. Two commentators ripping the piss like this out of a SA-born Aussie player seems rather pointed when you have Smith with just as many quirks.

So if you can't find a gun batsman to be captain, you go to a gun bowler and that is Cummins.

sixstringsupplies · January 2021

guitars4you said:

scrumhalf said:

It's been a hell if a turn-round from 36 all out. I wonder how many of them will keep their place for the next test when the likes of Kohli & co will be back.

just my 10 penneth but I suspect that secretly Kohli will be pretty pee'd off that they won without him - Great batsman but does not come across as a decent person

I'm not so sure. He is India through and through and actually incredibly modest....despite his fame and riches. (At least how I perceive him anyway). He had a reputation as a very cocky wonderkid when he burst onto the scene 10 years ago but he has matured.

HOWEVER, there have been murmurings for the past few years within India (pundits, dressing room, coaching staff) that he is incredibly intense as a Captain. So intense that it puts undue pressure on players. As Justin Langer said earlier, out of a country of 1billion+ the 11 best cricketers are obviously going to be the highest quality. Their "net bowlers" who stepped up this series have proved this.

Ajinke Rahane's performance as captain was so laid back, that I suspect, and expect, the likes of Sunil Gavaskar and other pundits will push for Rahane to become captain over Kohli. It won't happen, but it is probably a wise move.

I would go as far as saying that India would not have won this series had Kohli stayed and captained.

As a test cricket lover, that was a fantastic series. High level cricket. Can't believe Australia did not change their bowling attack.

It gives me a *little* confidence for next winter but I just can't see England winning.

And yes, I think Cummins will be the next captain, he is vice captain already. Bowler captains are few and far between.

So...what is your honest assessment regarding England's chances in India?

scrumhalf · January 2021

I can't see England doing well in India unless Moeen finds some form. I don't think Leach or Bess are, yet, good enough.

Stuckfast · January 2021

Yes I reckon you have to give a lot of credit to Kohli for the resilience of this Indian team. That's not something you build up overnight. But Rahane did an amazing job.

It'll be interesting to see what sort of pitches they prepare for the England series. Supposedly the pitches in India have been more seam-friendly in recent years.

Heartfeltdawn · January 2021

sixstringsupplies said:
Ajinke Rahane's performance as captain was so laid back, that I suspect, and expect, the likes of Sunil Gavaskar and other pundits will push for Rahane to become captain over Kohli. It won't happen, but it is probably a wise move.

I would go as far as saying that India would not have won this series had Kohli stayed and captained.

As a test cricket lover, that was a fantastic series. High level cricket. Can't believe Australia did not change their bowling attack.

It gives me a *little* confidence for next winter but I just can't see England winning.

And yes, I think Cummins will be the next captain, he is vice captain already. Bowler captains are few and far between.

So...what is your honest assessment regarding England's chances in India?

I'd liken Kohli as captain to Nasser Hussain. He took India up a level as Hussain did and brought a backbone into the side. When Vaughan came in and did things his way, a bit more relaxed than Nasser, he found the backbone was retained. I'd say Rahane has found the same thing. You could also say that Shastri is like Fletcher, a tough as old boots type coach who will still let players go out and express themselves (Pant = Pietersen at the Oval).

And like Ponting in 2005, once you've made the captain blow up mentally, you know they're ripe for the taking.

Not even going to think of the Ashes next winter. So much is unknown until then, not least how much cricket everyone might get in.

England in India:

Opening worries: Burns injured now, SIbley looking iffy against the slowies. Wouldn't rule out the Sam Curran or Stokes to open option being brought out if Sibbers gets sod all runs next Test. An all-rounder who can give you a few overs and open for some decent runs would be a useful asset compared to an opener who only bats and might contribute nothing as part of a horror show run.

Middle order: oddly this looks secure. We must now surely keep Root in at 4 so we need a three. I know my combination... Pope at 5 if fit (YJB if he isn't), Stokes at 6, Buttler at 7 (kept well so far so keep waiting, Mr Foakes).

Then we have the bowlers. Bess and Leach obviously. Anderson (Broad as senior reserve), one quick. For India, probably go Wood ahead of Archer on the basis of reserve swing but purely down to the pitch. One quick and Stokes for the short sharp spells. Curran is there for any swing that might pop up.

So 1st Test for me:

Curran
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Pope
Stokes
Buttler
Bess
One quick - Wood or Archer
Anderson (his record in India is very good
Leach

Stuckfast · January 2021

If they're both fit, I'd pick Woakes ahead of Curran. I think he's better at both disciplines, even if he doesn't offer the variety of left-arm and the gift of picking up wickets with rank bad balls.

And if he's back to any sort of form I'd like to see Moeen Ali in the side, though I don't know who you'd leave out to make way for him. When he's at his best I think he's a more threatening bowler than Bess, but it's been so long since he was.

Heartfeltdawn · January 2021

Stuckfast said:

If they're both fit, I'd pick Woakes ahead of Curran. I think he's better at both disciplines, even if he doesn't offer the variety of left-arm and the gift of picking up wickets with rank bad balls.

And if he's back to any sort of form I'd like to see Moeen Ali in the side, though I don't know who you'd leave out to make way for him. When he's at his best I think he's a more threatening bowler than Bess, but it's been so long since he was.

I wouldn't pick Woakes on the basis that he's picked up 3 wickets in 3 Tests in India at 81, his overall away record with the ball at 50+ is worse than Curran's and there's a one run in their overall batting average so no clear batting advantage that Woakes has over Curran.

I agree on Moeen over Bess if he's fully match ready. Whether there's enough pre-series game time for Moeen to get some form in, not sure.

scrumhalf · January 2021

Paine conceded 18 byes in the Indian 2nd innings, that may be enough to give the selectors cause to drop him. Admittedly I haven't seen any highlights, so I don't know how much he was to blame, but if you can't kick an Aussie captain when he's down then cricket is in a sorry state.

sixstringsupplies · January 2021

scrumhalf said:

Paine conceded 18 byes in the Indian 2nd innings, that may be enough to give the selectors cause to drop him. Admittedly I haven't seen any highlights, so I don't know how much he was to blame, but if you can't kick an Aussie captain when he's down then cricket is in a sorry state.

Here is to hoping Paine stays as Aussie captain for the Ashes at least.

Interesting England squad for the India series. I fully understand the need for rotation, resting and giving players a break in a year with 17 test matches and constant bio secure bubbles, but given Sam Curran was the difference between the two sides the last time they met I am very surprised he is not in the squad for the first two tests. "Rested"

Stuckfast · January 2021

Yes they've "rested" Bairstow too, which seems... odd.

Heartfeltdawn · January 2021

scrumhalf said:

Paine conceded 18 byes in the Indian 2nd innings, that may be enough to give the selectors cause to drop him. Admittedly I haven't seen any highlights, so I don't know how much he was to blame, but if you can't kick an Aussie captain when he's down then cricket is in a sorry state.

You remember that crack Mitchell Starc hit to get rid of Vince not so long back? There were some moments like that. At times Lyon was around the wicket and getting balls turning to first slip. He'd then hit the same spot and the ball was coming into the left hander after pitching like a doosra. It wasn't easy keeping out there on the final day at all.

Stuckfast · January 2021

Seem to remember there were a couple of bumpers that beat the keeper for height as well. I think they'll be more worried about the dropped catches and dubious captaincy decisions. The fact that there's no obvious successor will probably keep him in for now.

Heartfeltdawn · January 2021

Stuckfast said:

Seem to remember there were a couple of bumpers that beat the keeper for height as well. I think they'll be more worried about the dropped catches and dubious captaincy decisions. The fact that there's no obvious successor will probably keep him in for now.

There's no obvious successor for both captaincy and wicketkeeping duties. Wade's a busted flush in my view in both departments,

England are now 17-2. Both openers falling to the spinners. Will repeat what I said earlier particularly about Sibley.

crunchman · January 2021

Heartfeltdawn said:

Stuckfast said:

Seem to remember there were a couple of bumpers that beat the keeper for height as well. I think they'll be more worried about the dropped catches and dubious captaincy decisions. The fact that there's no obvious successor will probably keep him in for now.

There's no obvious successor for both captaincy and wicketkeeping duties. Wade's a busted flush in my view in both departments,

England are now 17-2. Both openers falling to the spinners. Will repeat what I said earlier particularly about Sibley.

India must have a left armer somewhere even with Jadeja injured. Burns will probably come back, but he might fnd Ashwin difficult.

What you said about opening with Curran might make sense but they have left him out of the squad. I don't think opening with Moeen is an option as India have competent quick bowlers who will bounce him. He shouldn't be batting higher than 8 these days.

Heartfeltdawn · January 2021

I made my squad choices before the mad England stuff sadly...

Of the Indian squad, you have two left arm spinners in that team and four in total. Ashwin and Sundar on the right, Axar Patel and Kuldeep Yadav for the left.

India: Virat Kohli (C), Ajinkya Rahane (VC), Rohit Sharma, Mayank Agarwal, Shubman Gill, Cheteshwar Pujara, KL Rahul, Hardik Pandya, Rishabh Pant (WK), Wriddhiman Saha (WK), Ravichandran Ashwin, Kuldeep Yadav, Axar Patel, Washington Sundar, Ishant Sharma, Jasprit Bumrah, Md. Siraj, Shardul Thakur

A shame they didn't give Shahbaz Nadeem a go in the squad instead of keeping him on the reserve list.

crunchman · January 2021

Will England get there? Who is going to be brave and say "Yes"?

guitars4you · January 2021

crunchman said:

Will England get there? Who is going to be brave and say "Yes"?

is 'maybe' allowed - And tell you more later - A lot obviously depends on Root but time is one our side so let see the openers put a 50 partnership together and a rock to build on

Hope Root has one of those magical years - 1000 test runs in 2021 and one hell of a start with so many matches to come

Teetonetal · January 2021

crunchman said:

Will England get there? Who is going to be brave and say "Yes"?

Yup, I'll be brave and say yes.... they need to focus on batting time and the runs will take care of themselves. My biggest worry is that england will try and force the runs and get out to dumb shots.

guitars4you · January 2021

Credible start - Think in a controlled way, Bairstow should take it to them, whilst we are only 1 wicket down and Sibley more 'sit in' and support - Bairstow take more of the strike - Not so much 20/20 mode but don't just block and hope - Get close to 100 and the finishing line will be nearly in sight (famous last words)

guitars4you · January 2021

5 Live for me - Not going anywhere - Glad Root/Sibley are rotating strike - Don't get bogged down - Suspect we are going to get nervous

scrumhalf · January 2021

Root's just gone, have the rest of them got enough to get them over the line?

Very tense.

guitars4you · January 2021

5 Live for me - I'm not going anywhere - Don't get bogged down - Suspect we are going to get nervous

camf · January 2021

Really hanging in the balance now, isn’t it?

camf · January 2021

That was an unlucky dismissal for Root, it looked like it hit glove and possibly even pad on its way through to glance leg stump. You'd be pretty grumpy to get out like that.

scrumhalf · January 2021

Lawrence goes, bat to pad to keeper.

How many rebound catches have there been in this series, it's ridiculous.

I think Buttler has to stay there to the end.

Heartfeltdawn · January 2021

Proper Code Brown signals going out now.

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