The Football Thread.

CHRISB50 · March 2023

guitars4you said:

TeleMaster said:

West Ham played well. The scoreline flattered Man UTD in my opinion and the whistle should have gone a minute before their third goal.

In any case, there was a lot of improvement and things are starting to look up.

I was watching and hoping for you - You had a couple of good chances as well when 0-0

Me too.

Agree that the scoreline flattered Man U. Wasn't a true reflection of the match.

On a happier note, Arsenal battered Everton, back to 5 points, and I won £20 on it. Smiling!

rze99 · March 2023

axisus said:

Yay! A trophy for Man U! Feels good!

I thought that this was interesting about Ten Hag (off the BBC website):

.... the embarrassing 4-0 thrashing at Brentford in United's second league game looks increasingly like a pivotal moment.
Ten Hag cancelled his players' day off after that loss, in which United shipped four first-half goals, to order them on a 13.8km run - the distance by which Brentford had out-run his side the previous day.
The 53-year-old joined his players on the run, sending a clear message that, while the failings at Brentford would not be tolerated, this would also be a managerial reign in which responsibility would be collective and the team ethic would be key. Everyone was in it together, an instant correction to the flaws that had been allowed to grow before his arrival.

Top stuff. Leadership of a quality that puts our political class to shame. Not that that is hard.

Snap · March 2023

Sheff Utd away this weekend for us, then the same again in two weeks for the FA cup quarters. I can see Blackburn making it to the semis, which would be cracking. We appear, dare I say it, to have hit a vein of consistent form. That's probably fkd it now.....

The BBC almost blew up the way they were over stating the significance and shock of beating Leicester. Yep, a good result, but a shock? Not really, not how poor Leicester have been this season.

thecolourbox · March 2023

Snap said:

Sheff Utd away this weekend for us, then the same again in two weeks for the FA cup quarters. I can see Blackburn making it to the semis, which would be cracking. We appear, dare I say it, to have hit a vein of consistent form. That's probably fkd it now.....

The BBC almost blew up the way they were over stating the significance and shock of beating Leicester. Yep, a good result, but a shock? Not really, not how poor Leicester have been this season.

I think Blackburn do have the players to do a cup run, when you played us the other week you didn't offer that much but held yourselves in the game and then you have players up top to come up with the unexpected which is what wins you games in the cup I think. Best of luck to you guys.

Although yeah, Grimsby are going to be every neutral's favourite team right? Good on them

Snap · March 2023

thecolourbox said:

Snap said:

Sheff Utd away this weekend for us, then the same again in two weeks for the FA cup quarters. I can see Blackburn making it to the semis, which would be cracking. We appear, dare I say it, to have hit a vein of consistent form. That's probably fkd it now.....

The BBC almost blew up the way they were over stating the significance and shock of beating Leicester. Yep, a good result, but a shock? Not really, not how poor Leicester have been this season.

I think Blackburn do have the players to do a cup run, when you played us the other week you didn't offer that much but held yourselves in the game and then you have players up top to come up with the unexpected which is what wins you games in the cup I think. Best of luck to you guys.

Although yeah, Grimsby are going to be every neutral's favourite team right? Good on them

We've been all over the shop this season. Definitely a team in transition, but my worry is holding onto the players to see the transition through. JDT does appear to know what he's doing though, and seems to have a knack of getting the most out of players. Dolan is a good example, and Dack has been getting back to his earlier form. Smodics has been a good addition too.

But in some games we've been dire.

The Blades are my local team. Will be a lot of "discussion" with the locals no doubt over the next couple of weeks. Good ground Bramall Lane. Unlike Hillsborough which is falling to bits, needs a lot of work.

Hopefully both Sheffield teams go up and we win the play offs., with Burnley and The Blades getting promotion. We are nowhere near ready for the PL though. Sacrilegeous, but I have a tiny soft spot for the Dingles (Aka Six Finger Central, aka Burnley). I'd never admit that back home though!

TeleMaster · March 2023

CHRISB50 said:

guitars4you said:

TeleMaster said:

West Ham played well. The scoreline flattered Man UTD in my opinion and the whistle should have gone a minute before their third goal.

In any case, there was a lot of improvement and things are starting to look up.

I was watching and hoping for you - You had a couple of good chances as well when 0-0

Me too.

Agree that the scoreline flattered Man U. Wasn't a true reflection of the match.

Yea it was a good match so I can't really fault them, but the result stems from a difference between a team with the quality of United who can just bring on world class after world class player, and a team who has a decent first team, but has poor strength in depth and injuries, which is compounded by gruelling European football campaigns.

I believe our form has been because of a European hangover, and many new signings who haven't hit the ground running. If we win this Europa competition, which I hope we do because we can, we will need further investment because the hang over will affect us next year too. We will need it regardless because the hangover will remain and we can't rely on Cresswell, Coufal, Ogbonna, Antonio as first team players because they're old, and Ings doesn't have much longer left either and the current replacements aren't all playing as well as we'd hoped and Rice is gone this year too.

So open the chequebook!

menamestom · March 2023

TeleMaster said:

CHRISB50 said:

guitars4you said:

TeleMaster said:

West Ham played well. The scoreline flattered Man UTD in my opinion and the whistle should have gone a minute before their third goal.

In any case, there was a lot of improvement and things are starting to look up.

I was watching and hoping for you - You had a couple of good chances as well when 0-0

Me too.

Agree that the scoreline flattered Man U. Wasn't a true reflection of the match.

Yea it was a good match so I can't really fault them, but the result stems from a difference between a team with the quality of United who can just bring on world class after world class player, and a team who has a decent first team, but has poor strength in depth and injuries, which is compounded by gruelling European football campaigns.

I believe our form has been because of a European hangover, and many new signings who haven't hit the ground running. If we win this Europa competition, which I hope we do because we can, we will need further investment because the hang over will affect us next year too. We will need it regardless because the hangover will remain and we can't rely on Cresswell, Coufal, Ogbonna, Antonio as first team players because they're old, and Ings doesn't have much longer left either and the current replacements aren't all playing as well as we'd hoped and Rice is gone this year too.

So open the chequebook!

I disagree with much of that. West Ham should be doing much better. You have spent the 4th most in the PL in last 5 years and are under achieving.

Premier League five-year net spend table sees Chelsea £100m-plus ahead of Man Utd (football365.com)

Gruelling European campaigns - we are in the same competition and have just had a double leg tie against Barcelona.
West Ham only played 4 games in Feb, United played 8.

Injuries - Martial, Eriksen, Sancho, Shaw unavailable. Same injuries for both clubs. United have a bigger and more expensive squad but that doesn't account for having 26 points more in the PL.

Honestly, I think most of the difference this season is down to the Managers. With the money you have spent you should be pushing champions league places, IMO.

Lestratcaster · March 2023

Great win last night, making it 3 on the spin after that City defeat. Good to bounce back.

Saka and Martinelli are so hungry for success, we are lucky to have them playing for us. Great to see Emile Smith Rowe back on the pitch too. Jorginho is good cover but you can see we are a different side when Partey came on. The job he does is so overlooked (I know I say this in almost every post I make!). Someone invent some formula to inject into his muscles so he never gets injured haha.

Gabriel Jesus back training which is a good sight to see, he'll be crucial in the next few months when he comes back. Trossard has been a useful signing but I don't think he's a no.9. Him and Martinelli kinda interchange positions upfront.

TeleMaster · March 2023

menamestom said:
I disagree with much of that. West Ham should be doing much better. You have spent the 4th most in the PL in last 5 years and are under achieving.

Premier League five-year net spend table sees Chelsea £100m-plus ahead of Man Utd (football365.com)

Gruelling European campaigns - we are in the same competition and have just had a double leg tie against Barcelona.
West Ham only played 4 games in Feb, United played 8.

Injuries - Martial, Eriksen, Sancho, Shaw unavailable. Same injuries for both clubs. United have a bigger and more expensive squad but that doesn't account for having 26 points more in the PL.

Honestly, I think most of the difference this season is down to the Managers. With the money you have spent you should be pushing champions league places, IMO.

Okay you're free to disagree but I believe it's a fair assessment based on the facts. We should be doing better but you have to look at the reasons for it objectively.

We have old, ageing players as our starters so the amount spent this year is just a drop in the ocean. Some of it will be the manager, yes, but some of it will be a hangover from last year because the players have said it is. We played the same squad the ENTIRE year, and pretty much the year before too and our bench was filled with what were basically youth players. That has an impact and many teams with a small squad have had the same issue in the past where their season and subsequent one has suffered because of a european campaign. Man UTD don't look like they have a small squad to me to they won't have the same hangover.

And a big part of it is that we bought a load of players, many without the manager agreeing on them, and they got instantly injured, and we have no adequate cover for ageing players like Coufal, Cresswell, Ogbonna, Dawson (now gone), Antonio etc. Ings is also old. West Hams average squad age is 28. That is 19th in the league! Man UTD's is 11th.

And you have a completely different youth system and ability to acquire and develop youth players that means that you have value in your squad that we don't have, and you don't need to strengthen with in the same way because you brought them through your academy. Rashford, Greenwood (yuk), Garnacho, McTominay etc are worth what, £300m combined? So it's not the same thing at all because even when you spend £150m a year, you still have those youth players who are coming through, getting better. Without them you would have been spending another £50m a year, maybe more. Again, it's not comparable.

And you can't really compare the strength in depth of West Ham to that of Man UTD, even with our spending. We spent £8m a few seasons ago so this year has really just pushed us up that list after years of underspending. I've just looked at your squad, it's on another level to ours, you can't really compare us to you.

From your list Man UTD have not had the same level of injuries as West Ham. Aguerd was injured till the world cup, Paqueta has had multiple injuries, Ings got injured in his first game, was out for three weeks, this will reoccur, Scammaca has been out for weeks, Zouma has been out for weeks, Cornet is new and has a potentially career ending injury, so no it's not the same for both clubs I'm afraid.

So I politely disagree with your assessment that it's just the manager, it's oversimplified the situation. Some people say it's the manager and part of it is, and I've been Moyes out for some of the season, but it's also been ineffective new signings, exhaustion from the European campaign, with a lack of good investment and poor signings who didn't work out here (Haller etc) (Sullivan does a lot of our transfer business), and a lot of injuries to new players.

TTony · March 2023

Good to see that a team with basic desire, determination, competitiveness, and willing to get stuck in playing enthusiastic football can be enough to beat a "better" team from a higher division, stuffed full of more accomplished, expensive, internationals.

Sheff Utd earned that win.

bloodandtears · March 2023

TTony said:

Good to see that a team with basic desire, determination, competitiveness, and willing to get stuck in playing enthusiastic football can be enough to beat a "better" team from a higher division, stuffed full of more accomplished, expensive, internationals.

Sheff Utd earned that win.

When I saw our line-up I knew the outcome.. why oh why do we do this.. too many changes... rusty players lacking confidence.. never ends well for Spurs.

TeleMaster · March 2023

Who do people think will win the Man UTD Liverpool game?

It's hard to look past United but it's at Anfield and their form is mixed and could be looking to bounce back against their biggest rivals.

joneve · March 2023

TTony said:

Good to see that a team with basic desire, determination, competitiveness, and willing to get stuck in playing enthusiastic football can be enough to beat a "better" team from a higher division, stuffed full of more accomplished, expensive, internationals.

Sheff Utd earned that win.

Shame their manager has no redeeming qualities and their fans still think it's the Football Factory of the 80's after attacking a 70 year old Spurs fan on his birthday after the game.

menamestom · March 2023

TeleMaster said:

menamestom said:
I disagree with much of that. West Ham should be doing much better. You have spent the 4th most in the PL in last 5 years and are under achieving.

Premier League five-year net spend table sees Chelsea £100m-plus ahead of Man Utd (football365.com)

Gruelling European campaigns - we are in the same competition and have just had a double leg tie against Barcelona.
West Ham only played 4 games in Feb, United played 8.

Injuries - Martial, Eriksen, Sancho, Shaw unavailable. Same injuries for both clubs. United have a bigger and more expensive squad but that doesn't account for having 26 points more in the PL.

Honestly, I think most of the difference this season is down to the Managers. With the money you have spent you should be pushing champions league places, IMO.

Okay you're free to disagree but I believe it's a fair assessment based on the facts. We should be doing better but you have to look at the reasons for it objectively.

We have old, ageing players as our starters so the amount spent this year is just a drop in the ocean. Some of it will be the manager, yes, but some of it will be a hangover from last year because the players have said it is. We played the same squad the ENTIRE year, and pretty much the year before too and our bench was filled with what were basically youth players. That has an impact and many teams with a small squad have had the same issue in the past where their season and subsequent one has suffered because of a european campaign. Man UTD don't look like they have a small squad to me to they won't have the same hangover.

And a big part of it is that we bought a load of players, many without the manager agreeing on them, and they got instantly injured, and we have no adequate cover for ageing players like Coufal, Cresswell, Ogbonna, Dawson (now gone), Antonio etc. Ings is also old. West Hams average squad age is 28. That is 19th in the league! Man UTD's is 11th.

And you have a completely different youth system and ability to acquire and develop youth players that means that you have value in your squad that we don't have, and you don't need to strengthen with in the same way because you brought them through your academy. Rashford, Greenwood (yuk), Garnacho, McTominay etc are worth what, £300m combined? So it's not the same thing at all because even when you spend £150m a year, you still have those youth players who are coming through, getting better. Without them you would have been spending another £50m a year, maybe more. Again, it's not comparable.

And you can't really compare the strength in depth of West Ham to that of Man UTD, even with our spending. We spent £8m a few seasons ago so this year has really just pushed us up that list after years of underspending. I've just looked at your squad, it's on another level to ours, you can't really compare us to you.

From your list Man UTD have not had the same level of injuries as West Ham. Aguerd was injured till the world cup, Paqueta has had multiple injuries, Ings got injured in his first game, was out for three weeks, this will reoccur, Scammaca has been out for weeks, Zouma has been out for weeks, Cornet is new and has a potentially career ending injury, so no it's not the same for both clubs I'm afraid.

So I politely disagree with your assessment that it's just the manager, it's oversimplified the situation. Some people say it's the manager and part of it is, and I've been Moyes out for some of the season, but it's also been ineffective new signings, exhaustion from the European campaign, with a lack of good investment and poor signings who didn't work out here (Haller etc) (Sullivan does a lot of our transfer business), and a lot of injuries to new players.

Okay thanks for expanding @TeleMaster ;;;;

You know doubt know the finer points of West Ham's issues. I didn't say it was just the manager, but I think a change could be good for you right now. One thing I've seen with ETH is improvement in players that look liked they were poor signings and I can't help thinking a fresh start for West Ham could stimulate some improvement in the same way.

TeleMaster said:

Who do people think will win the Man UTD Liverpool game?

It's hard to look past United but it's at Anfield and their form is mixed and could be looking to bounce back against their biggest rivals.

Really hard to say. We've played so many games lately so I give the advantage to Liverpool. They are at home, the crowd will be fired up and we will start slow.

If it's level at half time I think we might go on and win it.

TTony · March 2023

menamestom said:

You know doubt know the finer points of West Ham's issues. I didn't say it was just the manager, but I think a change could be good for you right now. One thing I've seen with ETH is improvement in players that look liked they were poor signings and I can't help thinking a fresh start for West Ham could stimulate some improvement in the same way.

The challenge is always finding the “ETH” that will fit with the club (Board, players, fans, history) and be successful.

Spurs have a long, and rather sad, history of failing to find an ETH, and/or of sticking with one (Poch) when times get a little bumpy, even when they’ve picked someone (Mourinho, Conte) who seemed to have the right track record.

It’s taken ManU a fair few years to find the right fit too. Hope (for ManU fans, and interest levels in the Premier League) that he’s still seen as the right man for the job in 2, 3, 4 seasons time. Certainly, so far, so good.

Lestratcaster · March 2023

TeleMaster said:

Who do people think will win the Man UTD Liverpool game?

It's hard to look past United but it's at Anfield and their form is mixed and could be looking to bounce back against their biggest rivals.

Utd I think. They're on form, Liverpool are shit at the moment and all over the place.

TeleMaster · March 2023

menamestom said:
Okay thanks for expanding @TeleMaster ;;;;

You know doubt know the finer points of West Ham's issues. I didn't say it was just the manager, but I think a change could be good for you right now. One thing I've seen with ETH is improvement in players that look liked they were poor signings and I can't help thinking a fresh start for West Ham could stimulate some improvement in the same way.

Wanna swap?

guitars4you · March 2023

Is LFC v MUFC the biggest rivalry in the UK regarding a football match - Maybe Celtic v Rangers is the only club match that can rival it, yet the 'prize money' is not as big

As a Leeds fan I feel the rivalry/dislike/hatred is bigger for Leeds than Man U - Their success rate is far bigger/better, so they can gloat about their success v Leeds - Ditto Arsenal v Spurs - Spurs might dislike/hate Arsenal but the success factor has been one way for many years, especially post 70's and of course in the 30's

Historically the Man U v LFC rivalry dates well before football became an 11 a side game - The whole social history around a ship canal has had a big influence on this

As a neutral, I want LFC to win on Sunday !!!!!!!!!!!!!

thecolourbox · March 2023

I think culturally as cities, Liverpool and Manchester seem to be very proud of themselves, and tend to get very tetchy if anybody dares to say anything against them. Compared to say Birmingham or Leeds or wherever, where we tend to be a bit more self deprecating (or indeed in the case of Brum, we don't even need to do the deprecating ourselves, we get the entire country doing it for us). Add that mentality to the fact that largely both teams have been very successful in kind of overlapping periods over the decades, it's probably a big mixture of things that has built up the rivalry over the years.

Lestratcaster · March 2023

Xhaka on bench, needed a bit of a rest I guess, nice to see Vieira get a start.

Not the best start though going behind after 10 seconds!!

Lestratcaster · March 2023

Oh my. What a comeback! At 2-0 down with 30 minutes left I would have taken 2-2 but for Nelson to get that 97th minute winner I literally thought the roof would come off at The Emirates!

I have to praise Arteta for instilling some grit and spirit into the team, when we've gone behind we never panic, just keep going and have to believe we are going to come back. And that's what happened today.

Happy Gooner tonight.

TeleMaster · March 2023

I'm done with this season.

RaymondLin · March 2023

I still think Man City will win it but I sure would hope Arsenal do instead (if not Man U as a United fan) but after today I feel more positive about Arsenal’s chances.

They just need to not lose when they go to City now and match City’s form.

The thing that makes me think City will win it is that they could play in 2nd gear and still win matches, Arsenal have to play out of their skin to get a win at times and still give away soft goals (1st one) too often.

TTony · March 2023

TeleMaster said:

I'm done with this season.

You & me both.

The odds of Conte still being around next season must be lengthening by the match.

Which is fine with me. He's spent the money, he's not got the team playing decent, or even winning, football. With Paratici looking like he's heading for a ban, guess there'll be a new Director of Football & Manager for next season.

Welcome back Mauricio.

TeleMaster · March 2023

TTony said:

TeleMaster said:

I'm done with this season.

You & me both.

The odds of Conte still being around next season must be lengthening by the match.

Which is fine with me. He's spent the money, he's not got the team playing decent, or even winning, football. With Paratici looking like he's heading for a ban, guess there'll be a new Director of Football & Manager for next season.

Welcome back Mauricio.

I'd bite your hand off in league position trade!

I don't know about Poch. To me it seems like most of these manager returns work out badly.

CHRISB50 · March 2023

I got some looks yesterday celebrating Arsenal’s third goal, while stood on a terrace watching the final moments of a 0-0 National League draw (I’m a season ticket holder at Dorking Wanderers).

I think having watched the dullest match I’ve seen in quite some time, people wondered WTF I was getting so excited about.

If Arsenal can keep on playing with this belief, they’ll win it.

I really hope they do. They’ve been fantastic this season.

TeleMaster · March 2023

RaymondLin said:

I still think Man City will win it but I sure would hope Arsenal do instead (if not Man U as a United fan) but after today I feel more positive about Arsenal’s chances.

They just need to not lose when they go to City now and Marc City’s form.

The thing that makes me think City will win it is that they could play in 2nd gear and still win matches, Arsenal have to play out of their skin to get a win at times and still give away soft goals (1st one) too often.

Yea I do agree with this although I think Arsenal have the momentum to do it. But, it is also possible that eventually they won't have the ability to outscore their opponents and City may end up winning by a point or something.

I watched Invincibles, the Arsene Wenger/Arsenal documentary yesterday and what a great period of football that was all round. He seemed like a genuinely good man, and excellent role model and father figure to so many, who really transformed the English game. It really is an absolute scandal how he was hounded out of that club by a very loud section of Arsenal's fan base. Wanting a change of manager is one thing, but to treat him like scum with marches and banners considering all he done, and after getting the top 4 every year and FA cups in an era of Chelsea and City as well as Man Utd was nothing short of a disgrace.

The 90's to mid 00's was a phenomenonal time for football. The podcast, Strictly Kevin is a great nostalgia trip to 90's football if anyone's interested.

axisus · March 2023

guitars4you said:

As a neutral, I want LFC to win on Sunday !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm thinking the definition of neutral is not this response ....

axisus · March 2023

I can't deny that was a great comeback from Arsenal. If they do win the league they will look back at that as a critical game.

If Man U lose today then they go from very slim title chance to no title chance. Either way it's a pretty good season as far as I am concerned.

guitars4you · March 2023

Lestratcaster said:

Oh my. What a comeback! At 2-0 down with 30 minutes left I would have taken 2-2 but for Nelson to get that 97th minute winner I literally thought the roof would come off at The Emirates!

I have to praise Arteta for instilling some grit and spirit into the team, when we've gone behind we never panic, just keep going and have to believe we are going to come back. And that's what happened today.

Happy Gooner tonight.

Arsenal expect that every man will do his duty - And Nelson did

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