The Football Thread.

TTony · August 2023

guitars4you said:

It is interesting to see how many former clubs of the top flight that now reside below the PL

Also, take a look at the clubs who have fallen out of the Football League and are now in "non" league;
Aldershot, Chesterfield, Halifax, Hartlepool, Oldham, Rochdale, Southend, York - OK, so none of those were ever top flight teams, but I'd think of them as being solid Div2/3 clubs. Surprised, when I looked, to see Oldham there, I missed their descent.

guitars4you said:
I said at the end of last season - It is probably more exciting when you look at sides like Luton, Wrexham, Sheff Wed, Notts County celebrating their success - Even West Ham with the European win - Such moments are rare so well worth celebrating, with genuine passion, when it happens - You are glad for them - I feel for the likes of Man City it is now more of a case of whatever and yes we were expecting it

Completely agree with you.

guitars4you said:
Sorry another final comment - Assuming it will happen shortly - Will Spurs be ABLE to cope without KANE

Cope - yes, obviously. Richarlison didn't have a great 1st season, but he can come good. Son had a terrible season, but that'll not happen again, plus I can see plenty of goals from Maddison and others in a Postecoglu team. And, *if* he goes, I'd expect Spurs to spend £50m+ on a new CF. We've had to cope before when he's been injured.

But losing Kane would clearly knock us back a season or two (Son's getting older too), so it'll prompt / need a rebuild, much as happened when Bale left.

In some respects that'd be a good thing - being "the Harry Kane team" is great, but a huge risk too and no team should be so reliant on a single player.

CHRISB50 · August 2023

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

It is interesting to see how many former clubs of the top flight that now reside below the PL
Also, take a look at the clubs who have fallen out of the Football League and are now in "non" league;
Aldershot, Chesterfield, Halifax, Hartlepool, Oldham, Rochdale, Southend, York - OK, so none of those were ever top flight teams, but I'd think of them as being solid Div2/3 clubs. Surprised, when I looked, to see Oldham there, I missed their descent.

I went to see Dorking v Oldham last season. They beat Dorking 5-1. First away match they’d won all season (think it was in January!).

First ex Prem side to be playing non league football.

Shame what has happened with Southend too. Hope they can keep going. They’ve got good fans.

RaymondLin · August 2023

Does anyone think Levy has screwed Spurs and their new manager's chances of success this season by playing this Kane saga? He spent pre-season working with Kane and if Kane goes all that plans goes out the window without much time to sign anyone decent. I think this hard bargain stance Levy is playing with Kane is disrupting the team's preparation for the start, and without the right signing, the rest of the season.

TTony · August 2023

RaymondLin said:

Does anyone think Levy has screwed Spurs and their new manager's chances of success this season by playing this Kane saga?

Yup.

Really, Levy should have sold Kane at the beginning of the window when ManU offered £40m + Maguire.

(Above reply might have contained an element of sarcasm).

Hattigol · August 2023

TTony said:

RaymondLin said:

Does anyone think Levy has screwed Spurs and their new manager's chances of success this season by playing this Kane saga?

Yup.

Really, Levy should have sold Kane at the beginning of the window when ManU offered £40m + Maguire.

(Above reply might have contained an element of sarcasm).

I think the offer was actually £30 million or £40 million plus Maguire.

TeleMaster · August 2023

If Kane leaves on a free it will be a tragedy for Spurs fans so whatever bid it was plus Maguire should've been snapped up.

I think part of the thinking is that you could sell him for £80-£90m, but if you keep him you have a chance he signs an extension next year and his goals could get Champions League football which is worth £40m or whatever, then they have to replace him at what, £30-50m. So if you sell him now you could lose the Champions League money if you can't sign someone who can get similar goals and even if he leaves next year for nothing the difference could be somewhat negligible overall anyway.

Levy is gambling that Kane will stay loyal.

TTony · August 2023

TeleMaster said:

If Kane leaves on a free it will be a tragedy for Spurs fans

Yup.

TeleMaster said:

Levy is gambling that Kane will stay loyal.

And, yup.

But I think that's a decent gamble. If he doesn't leave this window, he's 31 next summer. He'll also be closer to Shearer's PL scoring record, so maybe less inclined to head abroad. Bayern aren't going to wait a year, they'll have their new centre-forward sorted this summer, so there's no opening there anymore. Would he then leave, after 20-odd years at Spurs, to go to ManU for a season or two (can't see any of the other "top" clubs wanting a 31 yr old striker, and maybe not even ETH's ManU)?

There's no guarantee of trinkets at ManU, though I'd expect they'd quality for CL next season, so that might work if he fancies stocking up on the mid-week duty free.

Balance that against a new 4yr contract at Spurs, on close to £400k/wk, and guaranteed lifelong legend status.

Plus he'd not have to live in Manchester.

My betting is that he'll see how the season starts out, how Postecoglu handles the PL (very different to the SPL) and make his call after the winter window.

Faye · August 2023

CHRISB50 said:

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

It is interesting to see how many former clubs of the top flight that now reside below the PL
Also, take a look at the clubs who have fallen out of the Football League and are now in "non" league;
Aldershot, Chesterfield, Halifax, Hartlepool, Oldham, Rochdale, Southend, York - OK, so none of those were ever top flight teams, but I'd think of them as being solid Div2/3 clubs. Surprised, when I looked, to see Oldham there, I missed their descent.

I went to see Dorking v Oldham
First ex Prem side to be playing non league football.

Only if you draw an arbitrary delineation between the old division one and the prem.

Luton were only relegated the year before, when Leeds won it. Then you've got Notts County, and probably others...

thecolourbox · August 2023

I see Pep is already moaning about time being added on so that games actually last the amount of time they should, were it not for time wasting and the niggly fouls that he likes to include in his tactics when they lose the ball. Especially laughable considering the added time that Arsenal scored in, was because of head injuries to two players, which seems to me to be a good reason to stop play and add on time

BigBearKris · August 2023

Can't see this year's fantasy PL thread anywhere and it didn't automatically renewed for me - like it did the previous years. Help?

guitars4you · August 2023

thecolourbox said:

I see Pep is already moaning about time being added on so that games actually last the amount of time they should, were it not for time wasting and the niggly fouls that he likes to include in his tactics when they lose the ball. Especially laughable considering the added time that Arsenal scored in, was because of head injuries to two players, which seems to me to be a good reason to stop play and add on time

I'm glad it is in the PL as well - I thought initially it was an EFL policy - Hope it is in the CL as new and other UEFA competitions

Yes Pep has a very good tactic of stopping opposition breaks with 'petty niggly' fouls that will often void any yellow card - He did it at B Munich as well - It is often the forwards who do it at the start of any break

He moans that they were never consulted - Oblivious to the fact that deliberate time wasting and/or 'game management' are committed by players with instructions from the managers - I wonder how much he'll moan when one of his players scores a much needed winner/equalizer in 'stoppage time'

axisus · August 2023

I'm not convinced that playing out every second of time is going to improve the game. It's not the biggest problem in football! They still need to improve VAR, well, they need to educate the users better to be honest.

The Kane saga has been intriguing as a non-Spurs supporter. It feels like a high stakes game of poker. I'd prefer Harry to stay in the Prem (very limited options now!) but I'd also like to see Levy with egg on his face ...

Philly_Q · August 2023

guitars4you said:

thecolourbox said:

I see Pep is already moaning about time being added on so that games actually last the amount of time they should, were it not for time wasting and the niggly fouls that he likes to include in his tactics when they lose the ball. Especially laughable considering the added time that Arsenal scored in, was because of head injuries to two players, which seems to me to be a good reason to stop play and add on time

I'm glad it is in the PL as well - I thought initially it was an EFL policy - Hope it is in the CL as new and other UEFA competitions

Yes Pep has a very good tactic of stopping opposition breaks with 'petty niggly' fouls that will often void any yellow card - He did it at B Munich as well - It is often the forwards who do it at the start of any break

He moans that they were never consulted - Oblivious to the fact that deliberate time wasting and/or 'game management' are committed by players with instructions from the managers - I wonder how much he'll moan when one of his players scores a much needed winner/equalizer in 'stoppage time'

Didn't Newcastle also acquire a reputation for timewasting "game management" last season? I wonder what Eddie Howe thinks.

RaymondLin · August 2023

From a fan's perspective I love Kane to stay for another season and then move to another PL club (if he wants) for free, like you said, put some eggs on Levy's face.

From his shoes though, the attraction of winning some trophies and playing in the CL this season (and the next season) and winning the CL is big, much bigger chance than if he stays at Spurs.

guitars4you · August 2023

axisus said:

I'm not convinced that playing out every second of time is going to improve the game. It's not the biggest problem in football! They still need to improve VAR, well, they need to educate the users better to be honest.

The Kane saga has been intriguing as a non-Spurs supporter. It feels like a high stakes game of poker. I'd prefer Harry to stay in the Prem (very limited options now!) but I'd also like to see Levy with egg on his face ...

He is in danger of creating that Gerald Ratner moment if Harry leaves later for nothing

I think the bigger issue with var is imposing what is its purpose - ie hand ball - what is the directive - zero tolerance or instance A is okay but instance B isn't - A striker just making accidental hand contact, in the build up, then sets up the goal scorer, might be acceptable (for some reason) but not acceptable if the scorer himself accidentally touches it -

The refs and indeed managers, need to sit down and look at say 100 border line issues from last season and iron out when and where it needs to be improved and take. directive accordingly

Then accept 2/3/4 views from different cameras should be all we need to see - a 3 minute repeated play is not acceptable - So not clear and obvious so move on

guitars4you · August 2023

axisus said:

I'm not convinced that playing out every second of time is going to improve the game. It's not the biggest problem in football! They still need to improve VAR, well, they need to educate the users better to be honest.

They are also clamping down on mass touch line coach/management/subs etc 'moaning' - Only 1 person allowed to stand in that area - Plus clamping down on surrounding the ref on the pitch - Rightly so

You don't see it in cricket, rugby union/league when such big controversial decisions are made etc - At club football level on the park, in particular kids, the refs don't have the security protection of a PL ref but the PL players/coaches influential what goes on at this level

It is getting worse not better and enough is enough - I accept a captain asking for clarification and even a discussion but not with a gob full of phlem

RaymondLin · August 2023

So I guess Levy is going to gamble about where Kane is going to be between now and January then, bid from Bayen rejected.

TTony · August 2023

RaymondLin said:

So I guess Levy is going to gamble about where Kane is going to be between now and January then, bid from Bayen rejected.

Perhaps, if Bayern had bid what they'd been told the price was, and not tried to cheapskate and put a do-or-die deadline on Daniel Levy, they'd have had slightly more chance of being taken seriously.

Supposedly, they're now working on a - or another - "final" bid. Maybe "final" means something different in Germany.

It's not over until HK turns up on the pitch vs Brentford at the weekend. Until then, rumours will continue.

Philly_Q · August 2023

Maybe I don't understand the footballer mentality, but I don't see why Kane would want to go to Bayern.

Yes, he'll win some trophies, but at a club which wins the Bundesliga every year - and would whether he was there or not. And yes, he'll get Champions League football, but they're not going to win it. It's not exactly glittering prizes.

Plus he's got a wife and four(?) young kids, do they all move over and go to German schools, or do they stay in the UK?

I guess maybe he just wants to experience something different.

thecolourbox · August 2023

TTony said:

RaymondLin said:

So I guess Levy is going to gamble about where Kane is going to be between now and January then, bid from Bayen rejected.

Perhaps, if Bayern had bid what they'd been told the price was, and not tried to cheapskate and put a do-or-die deadline on Daniel Levy, they'd have had slightly more chance of being taken seriously.

So they are just doing what Levy normally does to other people then

TTony · August 2023

Philly_Q said:

Maybe I don't understand the footballer mentality, but I don't see why Kane would want to go to Bayern.

Maybe he doesn't.

He does have a huge influence within Spurs though, and that influence has only grown this summer whilst all this speculation has been going on.

Would Postecoglu have been appointed if HK thought he was a bad choice? Would Spurs have done quite as much spending in the window if there wasn't a chance that it (Maddison particularly) would persuade him to stay? Would his new double-your-money, best-paid-in-the PL, contract offer have come through?

guitars4you · August 2023

TTony said:

RaymondLin said:

So I guess Levy is going to gamble about where Kane is going to be between now and January then, bid from Bayen rejected.

Perhaps, if Bayern had bid what they'd been told the price was, and not tried to cheapskate and put a do-or-die deadline on Daniel Levy, they'd have had slightly more chance of being taken seriously.

Supposedly, they're now working on a - or another - "final" bid. Maybe "final" means something different in Germany.

It's not over until HK turns up on the pitch vs Brentford at the weekend. Until then, rumours will continue.

Rumours will continue until/if he signs a new deal and I believe he has stated he won't be doing that this summer - Otherwise it is X amount now or freebie later

The issue Bayern have to consider is that if HK stays as Spurs, for a while, then goes on a freebie, will they be in with a shout with what will be a competition with a signing on fee, wages and % of shirt sales etc

RaymondLin · August 2023

Philly_Q said:

Maybe I don't understand the footballer mentality, but I don't see why Kane would want to go to Bayern.

Yes, he'll win some trophies, but at a club which wins the Bundesliga every year - and would whether he was there or not. And yes, he'll get Champions League football, but they're not going to win it. It's not exactly glittering prizes.

Plus he's got a wife and four(?) young kids, do they all move over and go to German schools, or do they stay in the UK?

I guess maybe he just wants to experience something different.

I guess a trophy is a trophy, and a good chance winning the CL is better than no chance.

thecolourbox · August 2023

guitars4you said:

TTony said:

RaymondLin said:

So I guess Levy is going to gamble about where Kane is going to be between now and January then, bid from Bayen rejected.

Perhaps, if Bayern had bid what they'd been told the price was, and not tried to cheapskate and put a do-or-die deadline on Daniel Levy, they'd have had slightly more chance of being taken seriously.

Supposedly, they're now working on a - or another - "final" bid. Maybe "final" means something different in Germany.

It's not over until HK turns up on the pitch vs Brentford at the weekend. Until then, rumours will continue.

Rumours will continue until/if he signs a new deal and I believe he has stated he won't be doing that this summer - Otherwise it is X amount now or freebie later

The issue Bayern have to consider is that if HK stays as Spurs, for a while, then goes on a freebie, will they be in with a shout with what will be a competition with a signing on fee, wages and % of shirt sales etc

But on the other hand, if they lose out on him this season for a fee or next for a free (plus bonuses), they'll still surely win the league anyway and could just spend the money on somebody else instead

TTony · August 2023

thecolourbox said:
The issue Bayern have to consider is that if HK stays as Spurs, for a while, then goes on a freebie, will they be in with a shout with what will be a competition with a signing on fee, wages and % of shirt sales etc

But on the other hand, if they lose out on him this season for a fee or next for a free (plus bonuses), they'll still surely win the league anyway and could just spend the money on somebody else instead

TommyT wants/needs a reliable CF *now* to deliver European success to Bayern next season.

If they don't get Kane this summer, they'll go buy someone else. That someone else might fail spectacularly and be kicked out at the end of the season (in which case TommyT might also be gone and there's a bigger game change next year), but if not, then I think we can assume that Bayern won't be back for, a by-then 31yr old, HK next summer.

My money is in the same place now as it's been for the past 3 years. HK stays at Spurs.

thecolourbox · August 2023

I think he should stay at Spurs to be honest, seems to suit him and the club, and as much as I'd like Levy to get screwed over, ultimately for the fans point of view it's got to be a good thing he's kept.

Philly_Q · August 2023

TTony said:

Philly_Q said:

Maybe I don't understand the footballer mentality, but I don't see why Kane would want to go to Bayern.

Maybe he doesn't.

He does have a huge influence within Spurs though, and that influence has only grown this summer whilst all this speculation has been going on.

Would Postecoglu have been appointed if HK thought he was a bad choice? Would Spurs have done quite as much spending in the window if there wasn't a chance that it (Maddison particularly) would persuade him to stay? Would his new double-your-money, best-paid-in-the PL, contract offer have come through?

So HK is "playing" Spurs? I hadn't thought of that, he seems such a nice young man.

bloodandtears · August 2023

Philly_Q said:

TTony said:

Philly_Q said:

Maybe I don't understand the footballer mentality, but I don't see why Kane would want to go to Bayern.

Maybe he doesn't.

He does have a huge influence within Spurs though, and that influence has only grown this summer whilst all this speculation has been going on.

Would Postecoglu have been appointed if HK thought he was a bad choice? Would Spurs have done quite as much spending in the window if there wasn't a chance that it (Maddison particularly) would persuade him to stay? Would his new double-your-money, best-paid-in-the PL, contract offer have come through?

So HK is "playing" Spurs? I hadn't thought of that, he seems such a nice young man.

He's going nowhere this summer but has prepared for all eventualities.

The absence of a transfer request means Levy can take control of any sale without, and the contract stalling serves to ensure a much needed rebuild process takes place to entice him to stay.

By not making a public decision he protects his legacy and improves his and the team's future possibilities.

TTony · August 2023

Philly_Q said:
So HK is "playing" Spurs? I hadn't thought of that, he seems such a nice young man.

I think HK is quite "invested" in Spurs.

It's his team (in many senses). It's where he's been for-just-about-ever. It's where he gets more recognition than anywhere else. Where he's more important than he could ever be anywhere else. The team has been built around him for years, and this Postecoglu's team more than Moaniho's or Conte's.

If he'd wanted to leave, he'd have done that years ago, doubled his money, stuck some trinkets on his (twice the size) mantelpiece, etc.

Sure, he's looking after himself too - but I don't think he'd do that to the detriment of Spurs. I think he's looking for a win-win here, and generally has done over the past few years.

I might just be a blinkered Spurs fan though

Nitefly · August 2023

Well well, I see West Ham have made a bid of "more than £50 mill" to MU for Maguire and McTominay!

Would ETH let them both go?

*edit* here's the link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66432783

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