The Football Thread.

mrkb · July 2023

Lol! Man Citys oil money dominance is being challenged by a different countries oil money.... never mind Pep.

Saudi Pro League has 'changed transfer market' - Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola - BBC Sport

guitars4you · July 2023

mrkb said:

Lol! Man Citys oil money dominance is being challenged by a different countries oil money.... never mind Pep.

Saudi Pro League has 'changed transfer market' - Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola - BBC Sport

I agree there will be many good players moving for the money - It happened in golf - But what credibility is there in their league - Apply the same to the USA, China - Walk around the world and you'll see a Real Madrid shirt, Barca, Man U, Lac etc etc etc - Who would recognise any shirt from a Saudi league team - Who even knows who the LFC or Man U equivalent is in Saudi - They will be an adjustment for the likes of Man City etc competing against such huge funds and no FFP for the Saudi's etc - But no credibility whatsoever in their league, or even the idea of an African, Asian and/or M East supa league - PSG have that issue playing in France - But at least they can play in the CL and compare themselves to the best in Europe

Marching on Together, You'll never walk alone, Forever blowing bubbles, When the saints etc etc etc will never sound as good there as it will here

I dare say next year some teams like Arsenal, Man City, Newcastle who are owned/sponsored by such M Eastern owners/companies will be playing more pre-season games there for big money and sponsorship deals - But as in golf, winning an LIV match means nothing compared to winning the Masters etc

Yes it has money but it doesn't have the credibility, heritage or indeed class - And for every 30/35 year old player that goes there, European teams will have no shortage of teenagers breaking through into their own ranks and becoming stars accordingly - Funnily enough it might speed up the process and offer more chances if the old gets move on for the money

Philly_Q · July 2023

guitars4you said:
Yes it has money but it doesn't have the credibility, heritage or indeed class - And for every 30/35 year old player that goes there, European teams will have no shortage of teenagers breaking through into their own ranks and becoming stars accordingly - Funnily enough it might speed up the process and offer more chances if the old gets move on for the money

It's not just players who are 30+, though - Saint-Maximin is 26, Ruben Neves 26, Jota 24. Of course there's big money, and in theory they'll never have to work again, but the same would be true playing for a mid-table Premier League club, if they're financially astute and well advised. How much money is it possible to spend?

Then it's money versus career ambitions... I can't imagine playing in Saudi Arabia will help anyone's international career. And although I doubt these younger players expect to finish their careers in Saudi, it remains to be seen whether they'll be able to successfully come back into the European Leagues.

scrumhalf · July 2023

Back in the 70s the Americans threw money at the game in an attempt to become a world power.

A few years later it all went tits-up. The American public weren't interested in sufficient numbers.

This is slightly different in that the Saudis aren't buying foreign stars to bring on their domestic game. It's just like the expensive bling-encrusted stuff Harrods sell, nobody who buys it cares that it might get lost or break or be stolen or not have a sell-on value.

I hope it collapses but I fear that it may be the ruination of the game.

Hattigol · July 2023

"Before I'm a footballer, I'm a parent, a husband, a son, a brother and a friend to the people in my life who matter so much to me. The idea that any of them would feel excluded from playing or attending a football match, simply for being and identifying as who they are, blows my mind."

Jordan Henderson, proud defender of LGBT rights.

Now playing in Saudi.

RaymondLin · July 2023

Everyone has a price, the Saudi has found Jordan Henderson’s.

guitars4you · July 2023

Hattigol said:

"Before I'm a footballer, I'm a parent, a husband, a son, a brother and a friend to the people in my life who matter so much to me. The idea that any of them would feel excluded from playing or attending a football match, simply for being and identifying as who they are, blows my mind."

Jordan Henderson, proud defender of LGBT rights.

Now playing in Saudi.

Someone else told me the same thing yesterday about his defence towards LGBT

But you can’t surely expect him to have standards, morals, principles and still try and scrape a living to feed the family

axisus · July 2023

Jordan Henderson. How the **** is he worth £700,000 a week!?!?! In all fairness, all those people crying because he 'let down' the LGBQT community, I wonder how many of them would betray their principles for that money. Probably most of them.

What really gets on my tits though is that I keep hearing pundits on the TV and radio (on the Saudi thing) saying "yeah, I can understand players going because but this will set up their family for life". What!?!?!? Are you trying to say that they aren't already set up for life with the astronomical wages of the Prem anyway???? These people are so detached from reality.

I have no interest in that micky mouse league whoever they sign.

axisus · July 2023

Man U still feel like they are in the second division of top teams. No attempt for Kane or Mbappe, we settle for a striker with 'potential'. Good luck to Rasmus Hojlund, he may turn out to be brilliant, but I'm pretty sure he won't be a Kane, Mbappe or Haarland.

We have bought an insane amount of average or underperforming players in the past decade.

TTony · July 2023

axisus said:

"yeah, I can understand players going because but this will set up their family for life". What!?!?!? Are you trying to say that they aren't already set up for life with the astronomical wages of the Prem anyway????

Depends on the set-up they're aiming for.

For lots of people, their lifestyle "evolves" to match their income. I doubt that (m)any PL footballers drive a car like yours or mine, or live in a house like yours or mine, take holidays like you or I, buy clothes like yours or mine (etc, etc).

They also have a much longer retirement period to cover.

Hence the argument about the money meaning they can maintain their lifestyle.

But it reminds me of the old joke ...

Man-to-woman: "Would you sleep with me, just one night, no funny stuff, for £5m"?
Woman-to-man: "No funny stuff, just one night, £5m ..... yes".
Man-to-woman: "How about the same deal, but for £5?"
Woman-to-man: "£5??? No way!. What sort of woman do you think I am!!"
Man-to-woman: "We established what sort of woman you are, we're just discussing the price".

sev112 · July 2023

What happened only a few years back when it was China flashing the big bucks to get PL and European footballers to go out there ?

joeyowen · July 2023

sev112 said:

What happened only a few years back when it was China flashing the big bucks to get PL and European footballers to go out there ?

and before that Russia tried it

TTony · July 2023

joeyowen said:

sev112 said:

What happened only a few years back when it was China flashing the big bucks to get PL and European footballers to go out there ?

and before that Russia tried it

and before that, the US.

and before that, the UK England.

RaymondLin · July 2023

The reason I believe that Ten Hag went for Holund instead of Kane or Mbappe are both cost and style of play.

This video explains the economics of the difference. (It’s mostly because of the wages)

https://youtu.be/IpubwBElZtk

Secondly, a player who is 20yrs old is easier to mould into the way ETH wants to play in his way, rather than a ready made star and then build a team around him. United has tried that many times, getting big players and it has not worked once since Fergie left.

Also, United doesn’t have the same infinite money glitch that the Middle East own teams has (FFP aside), especially with the debt the Glazers has put on the team, which is has got larger now than when they “bought” it.

Clearly ETH has a way that United should play, he is trying to play a system, buy players to fit that system, rather than just buy the best players.

I know the counter argument is that good players can adapt to any system. I disagree with that, I don’t think putting Messi into a team like the old Graham Taylor Watford side who just hoof ball up top would work if you ask Messi to be guy up top, or in a team where they do a lot of crossing from the wide (not cut backs from edge of penalty area). The team needs to play in certain ways to get the best of the players.

or you get players that fits your system.

guitars4you · July 2023

axisus said:

Man U still feel like they are in the second division of top teams. No attempt for Kane or Mbappe, we settle for a striker with 'potential'. Good luck to Rasmus Hojlund, he may turn out to be brilliant, but I'm pretty sure he won't be a Kane, Mbappe or Haarland.

We have bought an insane amount of average or underperforming players in the past decade.

10 years ago Harry Kane was not a star - There is a skill about finding and developing potential - As against just having a bigger cheque book

To be fair Man U have found and developed many great players over the years be it Giggs or Rashford plus others - granted many academy players are never going to make it - But spend spend spend is kind of vulgar - I admire the set up the likes of Ajax follow

Philly_Q · July 2023

sev112 said:

What happened only a few years back when it was China flashing the big bucks to get PL and European footballers to go out there ?

Interesting story just a couple of days ago about ex-Chelsea player Oscar, who's still in China. It seems the Chinese government imposed a salary cap which essentially killed the project:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/28/oscar-chinese-super-league-saudi-boom-era

UnclePsychosis · July 2023

I'm enjoying the outrage in England over Saudi money in football.

The Premier League has been dishing out obscene wages and hilariously over priced transfer fees for decades and a whole succession of pundits were absolutely delighted to bang on about how marvelous it was that middling English teams were dishing out millions every week.

Now some even more insane people have come along with even more insanely deep pockets and there's tears and snotters everywhere.

I'm not desperately happy about Saudi sportswashing but there's an element of "live by the sword, die by the sword" about the whole thing that I must confess to enjoying.

TeleMaster · July 2023

Philly_Q said:

sev112 said:

What happened only a few years back when it was China flashing the big bucks to get PL and European footballers to go out there ?

Interesting story just a couple of days ago about ex-Chelsea player Oscar, who's still in China. It seems the Chinese government imposed a salary cap which essentially killed the project:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/28/oscar-chinese-super-league-saudi-boom-era

Didn't he just miss that though? I think he's still being paid a lot of money.

axisus · July 2023

RaymondLin said:

The reason I believe that Ten Hag went for Holund instead of Kane or Mbappe are both cost and style of play.

This video explains the economics of the difference. (It’s mostly because of the wages)

https://youtu.be/IpubwBElZtk

Secondly, a player who is 20yrs old is easier to mould into the way ETH wants to play in his way, rather than a ready made star and then build a team around him. United has tried that many times, getting big players and it has not worked once since Fergie left.

Also, United doesn’t have the same infinite money glitch that the Middle East own teams has (FFP aside), especially with the debt the Glazers has put on the team, which is has got larger now than when they “bought” it.

Clearly ETH has a way that United should play, he is trying to play a system, buy players to fit that system, rather than just buy the best players.

I know the counter argument is that good players can adapt to any system. I disagree with that, I don’t think putting Messi into a team like the old Graham Taylor Watford side who just hoof ball up top would work if you ask Messi to be guy up top, or in a team where they do a lot of crossing from the wide (not cut backs from edge of penalty area). The team needs to play in certain ways to get the best of the players.

or you get players that fits your system.

I don't disagree with you on the whole, but Harry Kane would have been amazing with Man U, exactly what they needed.

guitars4you said:

10 years ago Harry Kane was not a star - There is a skill about finding and developing potential - As against just having a bigger cheque book

Many years ago, before he got really big I was saying that Man U should sign Kane. They missed the bus!

RaymondLin · July 2023

Kane might not turn out the same player he is right now if he went to United, different coaches, different players around him (no Son). So it’s hard to say how he would turn out has he moved then.

Philly_Q · July 2023

TeleMaster said:

Philly_Q said:

sev112 said:

What happened only a few years back when it was China flashing the big bucks to get PL and European footballers to go out there ?

Interesting story just a couple of days ago about ex-Chelsea player Oscar, who's still in China. It seems the Chinese government imposed a salary cap which essentially killed the project:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/28/oscar-chinese-super-league-saudi-boom-era

Didn't he just miss that though? I think he's still being paid a lot of money.

That's what the article's about. He did indeed go there before the salary cap, and he is being paid a lot, which means he's "trapped" in China unless he's prepared to take a huge wage cut to go elsewhere.

TeleMaster · July 2023

RaymondLin said:

Kane might not turn out the same player he is right now if he went to United, different coaches, different players around him (no Son). So it’s hard to say how he would turn out has he moved then.

Kane would score goals in any team, anywhere in the world. He's getting 30 goals a year at Spurs, imagine what he'd do at City. I think he'd get similar numbers to Haaland and more assists as he's a much more experienced and complete player. Top three strikers in the world for me and walks into any team.

axisus · July 2023

Philly_Q said:

TeleMaster said:

Philly_Q said:

sev112 said:

What happened only a few years back when it was China flashing the big bucks to get PL and European footballers to go out there ?

Interesting story just a couple of days ago about ex-Chelsea player Oscar, who's still in China. It seems the Chinese government imposed a salary cap which essentially killed the project:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/28/oscar-chinese-super-league-saudi-boom-era

Didn't he just miss that though? I think he's still being paid a lot of money.

That's what the article's about. He did indeed go there before the salary cap, and he is being paid a lot, which means he's "trapped" in China unless he's prepared to take a huge wage cut to go elsewhere.

Trapped my arse, he has one hundred and fifty f*****g million in the bank. He's only trapped by his own greed and stupidity.

menamestom · July 2023

Kane was never coming to Man U. Beyern will pay close to £100 million, Levy would have made United pay significantly more and we A) can not afford that price and can not justify over £100 million on a player who would not have long term value.

Mbappe no chance. Saudi have just bid £250+million which is more than all the Man U transfer budget.

Plus the last thing we need is a player like Mbappe. Supremely talented but not exactly a team player.

Hojlund fits the ETH far better. Coachable potential, physical and dynamic. In budget.
A gamble but fits in with the team rebuild, younger hungry players, rather than buying superstars with their egos. (Not that you would get that with Kane, in a footballing only sense of course he would be perfect).

RaymondLin · July 2023

I would have no idea how Kane would have turned out had he left Spus when he was 20, I don't even know he does, so none of us will.

Right now, whilst I don't disagree that he will score goals anywhere, the reality is he will never go to United. Not with Levy in charge of transfers in Spurs. The only way United can sign him is next year if Kane stays there and play out his contract. That is only if Bayen's interests come to nothing or Kane eyes Shearer's record.

If his 1st priority is winning trophies then he needs to go to Bayen, he will most likely win the league there, perhaps with another domestic cup and get a good run in the CL.

guitars4you · July 2023

I bet someone at Spurs, with insider knowledge, has had a nice bet on the side where Kane will be playing this coming season

bloodandtears · July 2023

guitars4you said:

I bet someone at Spurs, with insider knowledge, has had a nice bet on the side where Kane will be playing this coming season

I bet James Maddison knows too..

TTony · July 2023

bloodandtears said:

guitars4you said:

I bet someone at Spurs, with insider knowledge, has had a nice bet on the side where Kane will be playing this coming season

I bet James Maddison knows too..

I know he won't be going here ...

RaymondLin
If his 1st priority is winning trophies then he needs to go to Bayen, he will most likely win the league there, perhaps with another domestic cup and get a good run in the CL.

TeleMaster · July 2023

Is winning a couple of league trophies in Germany worth more than the all time premier league goal scoring record in England? When people talk about Alan Shearer, the single premier league title he won is an after thought compared to the record isn't it. And if Kane goes to Germany people will say, yea but it was only the German league. So he could risk the record, and end up winning league titles no one respects if he leaves.

He should stay here for another year and go somewhere on a free where he will actually gain the respect he deserves and have a shot at actually winning the highest prizes. Somewhere like Real, or go to a club that needs a striker of his calibre like Man Utd who I think could challenge properly in a season or so.

In West Ham news we have signed no one. Antonio and Scammaca want to leave so now we only have Ings up front, and Cresswell wants out. We're being ripped off over average players like James Ward Prowse and McTominay because everyone knows we got a lot for Rice, and there's a power struggle in the club between Noble, our new Technical Director and Moyes over transfers.

The club is in a right mess.

RaymondLin · July 2023

There are people who value trophies and there are people who value records.

Personally, I value trophies more. Give me a Champion's League winner's medal, in any team, over any kind of stats.

Kane already has the respect he deserves, i am not sure what you mean by "actually gain the respect he deserves", it sounds like people don't respect him? I don't think anyone disrespects him in any capacity at all.

RM btw is not interested in Kane, they have their eyes on Mbappe, however that unfolds, who is 6 years younger than Kane.

Also, there is no guarantee that going to Man U will get any tropies, at least Shearer was already a PL winner when he went to Newcastle, Kane has won diddly squat, besides respect.

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