The Football Thread.

tony99 · May 2023

RaymondLin said:

I see Celtic on around the same level as likes Brighton in the PL, or at best, Spurs on a good day, rare outing in recent months. With the rest of SPL more like the Championship level. I reckon Burnley would be challenging for honours if they play in the SPL and Brighton would wipe the floor with their current squad and manager.

Do you have a team you support Raymond?

UnclePsychosis · May 2023

TTony said:

The fact that they get kicked out of European competitions at the first opportunity gives an indication of how well they'd (not) do in the Prem League.

Given their complete dominance in Scotland (though Rangers are getting back there), it's not a great compliment on the quality of the rest of the SPL.

By "get kicked out of European competitions at the first opportunity", do you mean "narrowly lose the Europa League Final on penalties"? For reference, thats an entire European tier higher than the conference league final that West Ham just qualified for.

The current Celtic and Rangers teams wouldn't threaten the Man Cities and Liverpools of the world, thats for sure, but they're a lot better than most myopic English supporters give them credit for, and the same myopic English supporters massively overrate their own mediocre teams. There's a lot of Sky Sports News kool aid being drunk when it comes to the Premier League.

RaymondLin · May 2023

tony99 said:

RaymondLin said:

I see Celtic on around the same level as likes Brighton in the PL, or at best, Spurs on a good day, rare outing in recent months. With the rest of SPL more like the Championship level. I reckon Burnley would be challenging for honours if they play in the SPL and Brighton would wipe the floor with their current squad and manager.

Do you have a team you support Raymond?

Man United.../runs.

S56035 · May 2023

UnclePsychosis said:

Celtic, season 2021/2022:

Manchester City, season 2021/2022:

"CoMpeTiTivE lEaGue"

Might want to have chosen a different example given that the destination of the 21/22 Premier League wasn't decided until DURING the final game and Celtic finished 8 points ahead of Rangers.

RaymondLin · May 2023

Rangers in CL this season broke records for being the worst team in CL history for the group stages, And they did really well last season in the SPL. Granted, most teams who have not been in Europe recently and frequently seldom do very well in their 1st season but their campaign was particularly disappointing, or embarrassing.

UnclePsychosis · May 2023

S56035 said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Celtic, season 2021/2022:

Manchester City, season 2021/2022:

"CoMpeTiTivE lEaGue"

Might want to have chosen a different example given that the destination of the 21/22 Premier League wasn't decided until DURING the final game and Celtic finished 8 points ahead of Rangers.

I'm perfectly happy for English fans to continue lying to themselves about how competitive their league is, tbh.

Man City: five wins in six years, statistically outperforming teams from "one horse leagues" in the process.

English fans: "this is really competitive"

UnclePsychosis · May 2023

RaymondLin said:

Rangers in CL this season broke records for being the worst team in CL history for the group stages, And they did really well last season in the SPL. Granted, most teams who have not been in Europe recently and frequently seldom do very well in their 1st season but their campaign was particularly disappointing, or embarrassing.

Correct, but the Champions League is for actual elite teams, not for bang standard jobbers. They also had a horrible group - Napoli, Liverpool and Ajax? We're not pretending that a Wolves, Palace or Forest would be challenging them either, surely?

My contention isn't that Celtic or Rangers are elite teams, just that there's not much difference between them and midtable English jobbers.

S56035 · May 2023

UnclePsychosis said:

S56035 said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Celtic, season 2021/2022:

Manchester City, season 2021/2022:

"CoMpeTiTivE lEaGue"

Might want to have chosen a different example given that the destination of the 21/22 Premier League wasn't decided until DURING the final game and Celtic finished 8 points ahead of Rangers.

I'm perfectly happy for English fans to continue lying to themselves about how competitive their league is, tbh.

Man City: five wins in six years, statistically outperforming teams from "one horse leagues" in the process.

English fans: "this is really competitive"

So no comment on how bad you example is then? Fair enough.

joneve · May 2023

UnclePsychosis said:

RaymondLin said:

Rangers in CL this season broke records for being the worst team in CL history for the group stages, And they did really well last season in the SPL. Granted, most teams who have not been in Europe recently and frequently seldom do very well in their 1st season but their campaign was particularly disappointing, or embarrassing.

Correct, but the Champions League is for actual elite teams, not for bang standard jobbers. They also had a horrible group - Napoli, Liverpool and Ajax? We're not pretending that a Wolves, Palace or Forest would be challenging them either, surely?

My contention isn't that Celtic or Rangers are elite teams, just that there's not much difference between them and midtable English jobbers.

Give Cooper 2-3 years and we'll be winning our third pal

UnclePsychosis · May 2023

S56035 said:

UnclePsychosis said:

S56035 said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Celtic, season 2021/2022:

Manchester City, season 2021/2022:

"CoMpeTiTivE lEaGue"

Might want to have chosen a different example given that the destination of the 21/22 Premier League wasn't decided until DURING the final game and Celtic finished 8 points ahead of Rangers.

I'm perfectly happy for English fans to continue lying to themselves about how competitive their league is, tbh.

Man City: five wins in six years, statistically outperforming teams from "one horse leagues" in the process.

English fans: "this is really competitive"

So no comment on how bad you example is then? Fair enough.

Its not a bad example at all.

Last season, Man City were just as likely as Celtic were to win, only by a bigger margin. That's a fact whether you like it or not.

S56035 · May 2023

UnclePsychosis said:

S56035 said:

UnclePsychosis said:

S56035 said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Celtic, season 2021/2022:

Manchester City, season 2021/2022:

"CoMpeTiTivE lEaGue"

Might want to have chosen a different example given that the destination of the 21/22 Premier League wasn't decided until DURING the final game and Celtic finished 8 points ahead of Rangers.

I'm perfectly happy for English fans to continue lying to themselves about how competitive their league is, tbh.

Man City: five wins in six years, statistically outperforming teams from "one horse leagues" in the process.

English fans: "this is really competitive"

So no comment on how bad you example is then? Fair enough.

Its not a bad example at all.

Last season, Man City were just as likely as Celtic were to win, only by a bigger margin. That's a fact whether you like it or not.

But as an example of them both having the same level of competition it's a terrible example.

UnclePsychosis · May 2023

Either one and two horse competitions are exciting, or they aren't. Can't have it both ways!

thecolourbox · May 2023

That depends how you look at it. If Brighton or West Ham were to be able to win the league with that many points, then it's a fair example for comparison I'd say

Lestratcaster · May 2023

Delighted that Saka has signed a new contract to stay with us til 2027. He's been great this season although trailed off in the past month or so, Arteta needs to manage his game time better as he will get burnt out pretty quick.

Hopefully we secure Saliba and Odegaard on long term deals too and build the team around them.

guitars4you · May 2023

Lestratcaster said:

Delighted that Saka has signed a new contract to stay with us til 2027. He's been great this season although trailed off in the past month or so, Arteta needs to manage his game time better as he will get burnt out pretty quick.

Hopefully we secure Saliba and Odegaard on long term deals too and build the team around them.

I think a dedicated RB, who can overlap, as/when required will help him - I'm a Ben White fan and he has done well at RB but it is not his strength, especially with regards to skill and speed that position requires - Additionally I think at times he needs to be less predictive especially when the opposition park the bus and offer you less space to work in - aka v Forest last game as a recent reference

Assuming he leaves West Ham, then I hope Rice goes to Arsenal - Will be handy to keep his home in London - Rather than go overseas or Man City, Man Utd or LFC.

joeyowen · May 2023

Woo! Eze made the England squad! Happy for him.... somehow so did Maguire??

Lestratcaster · May 2023

I don't think Southgate likes Ben White!

joneve · May 2023

Lestratcaster said:

I don't think Southgate likes Ben White!

Or Morgan Gibbs-White.

TTony · May 2023

joeyowen said:

Woo! Eze made the England squad! Happy for him.... somehow so did Maguire??

I remember, when he was still at QPR, hoping that Spurs would manage to grab Eze.

Though, if we had, he'd probably not be in the England squad now.

Southgate places a lot of emphasis/value on the squad being a known, stable entity, rather than players being called up or dropped on the basis of a few good or bad games for their teams. Though ManU fans might suggest that Maguire has had a few more than a few bad games this season. And last season ....

DrCornelius · May 2023

joeyowen said:

Woo! Eze made the England squad! Happy for him.... somehow so did Maguire??

I just hope we get to keep him and Olise for another season , I don’t mind being a selling club but want to get a little bit of value from the player first as he has only stepped up with his consistency recently imho

RaymondLin · May 2023

UnclePsychosis said:

RaymondLin said:

Rangers in CL this season broke records for being the worst team in CL history for the group stages, And they did really well last season in the SPL. Granted, most teams who have not been in Europe recently and frequently seldom do very well in their 1st season but their campaign was particularly disappointing, or embarrassing.

Correct, but the Champions League is for actual elite teams, not for bang standard jobbers. They also had a horrible group - Napoli, Liverpool and Ajax? We're not pretending that a Wolves, Palace or Forest would be challenging them either, surely?

My contention isn't that Celtic or Rangers are elite teams, just that there's not much difference between them and midtable English jobbers.

Napoli this season is strong, I give you that. Ajax is nothing that amazing, and Liverpool...this was before Christmas and Liverpool this season was awful at times. One week they will stuff Man United and then the next lose to Forest away and Leeds, Brentford & Brighton at home. Getting a draw against Liverpool and Ajax at home should have been achievable.

Anyhow, as for Mcguire.

England plays in a different system to Man United. With Man United there is a bigger emphasis for the center-back to be quicker as they push slightly higher, demand better on the ball control and even find throughballs up top from the back. Also England play with 2 sitting midfielders in Rice/Henderson/Philips etc in front of the defence, providing more cover and help. He is then just have to get the ball and then pass to Rice or Henderson.

The system Southgate deploy suits him better than United, and perhaps international matches are at a slower pace than PL games too, he has a bit more time on the ball, with less pressing and pressure in internationals.

joeyowen · May 2023

DrCornelius said:

joeyowen said:

Woo! Eze made the England squad! Happy for him.... somehow so did Maguire??

I just hope we get to keep him and Olise for another season , I don’t mind being a selling club but want to get a little bit of value from the player first as he has only stepped up with his consistency recently imho

Defo, with Zaha almost certainly leaving in my opinion.

RaymondLin · May 2023

Lestratcaster said:

I don't think Southgate likes Ben White!

Ben White got absolutely destroyed by Mitoma in the Brighton game, there are a few right backs better currently than Ben White. He is good, but IMO he just about makes it to the Top 5, behind Walker, Trippier, Trent for me.

Lestratcaster · May 2023

RaymondLin said:

Lestratcaster said:

I don't think Southgate likes Ben White!

Ben White got absolutely destroyed by Mitoma in the Brighton game, there are a few right backs better currently than Ben White. He is good, but IMO he just about makes it to the Top 5, behind Walker, Trippier, Trent for me.

Well more that I think he should be in there ahead of Maguire as a centre back. He can do a job at RB as we've seen but he's naturally a centre back.

axisus · May 2023

As a Man U fan I'd like us to ship some players out - For starters Maguire for obvious reasons, and Martial who I have NEVER been convinced by. We should have better players than those two. Sancho is walking a fine line with failure on one side of it. Not convinced by him at all.

Players I'd like in: Kane, Rice, Bellingham. Probably won't get any of them!

Next season, I can't imagine what the top 4 will be. City plus three others.

guitars4you · May 2023

axisus said:

As a Man U fan I'd like us to ship some players out - For starters Maguire for obvious reasons, and Martial who I have NEVER been convinced by. We should have better players than those two. Sancho is walking a fine line with failure on one side of it. Not convinced by him at all.

Players I'd like in: Kane, Rice, Bellingham. Probably won't get any of them!

Next season, I can't imagine what the top 4 will be. City plus three others.

I'd put good money on you getting Kane - I'm sure he won't go overseas as he wants that PL record from big Al - Don't think Rice or Bellingham will be heading to OT

Ward-Prowse might be a good option - Younger legs than Eriksen - Good up/down player and a bit of Eriksen in him - Although I hear both Villa and West Ham are sniffing around him

Lestratcaster · May 2023

guitars4you said:

Lestratcaster said:

Delighted that Saka has signed a new contract to stay with us til 2027. He's been great this season although trailed off in the past month or so, Arteta needs to manage his game time better as he will get burnt out pretty quick.

Hopefully we secure Saliba and Odegaard on long term deals too and build the team around them.

I think a dedicated RB, who can overlap, as/when required will help him - I'm a Ben White fan and he has done well at RB but it is not his strength, especially with regards to skill and speed that position requires - Additionally I think at times he needs to be less predictive especially when the opposition park the bus and offer you less space to work in - aka v Forest last game as a recent reference

Assuming he leaves West Ham, then I hope Rice goes to Arsenal - Will be handy to keep his home in London - Rather than go overseas or Man City, Man Utd or LFC.

Definitely need a proper RB. Tomiyasu isn't reliable anymore as he's spent most of this season injured. Someone like Caicedo who can play there and in midfield would be good. Or Reece James. Rice will probably go to Chelsea knowing us with teh Mudryk situation. They'll do anything to stop us getting him.

There's some silly talk of us selling Partey and Xhaka. I don't think we should sell either even if we do get Rice and Caicedo. We need experience as well as youth. Partey's just been off as Saliba's injury means he has to drop deeper as whoever plays in the right centre back position in place doesn't press as high. Xhaka I'll give him credit has improved and become one of the leaders on the pitch so to lose him for a crap fee to Leverkusen would be a shame.

joneve · May 2023

Happy Bobby Zamora day btw @guitars4you

guitars4you · May 2023

joneve said:

Happy Bobby Zamora day btw @guitars4you

confused - haven't got that yet - Unless it was the day that he scored in the play off v Derby at Wembley ?

guitars4you · May 2023

Touch line managers moaning - Didn't see all the Man City game last night - But Harland thought he'd scored the winner late in the game - VAR correctly and very obviously decided Harland had pulled the defenders shirt to create the gap for him to score - So why does Pep see it different to anyone else then moan like hell for a while - This touch line aggressive moaning has to stop - Pep will have seen the same replay at the time as us so shrug and accept it - he is not on his own by any stretch of the imagination but there is a petulance about these guys that thinks they are better and above anything else

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