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I'm disappointed that they won, but at the end of the day I have to say hats off to an amazing team. Surely this must be their year for the Champions league as well? And much thought I hate the thought, they are going to beat Man U to seal the treble as well.
Pep has been a brilliant Prem manager, but he really needs the Champions league to ice his impressive cake.
I sincerely hope that someone beats them next season, 4 in a row!?!?!
I'm Moyes in now, even if we lose this final. The football was dire but the board were proven right to stick with him. We could even finish above Chelsea!
I wonder if Man City will be punished for the charges being brought against them and if so how. If guilty, it can't be fines as it won't touch them.
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If found guilty, I would like to see them relegated to the bottom of the EFL.
If they have really operated outside of the rules, then the impact on all other clubs is huge. Not only would titles and cups have changed hands but relegations would have been different too.
The negative impact on other clubs in the period is massive, so the punishment should be appropriately huge too.
Can't see it happening though.
Firstly, on the pitch. Fairly widely accepted that the football has been phenominal, joy to watch, etc. Pep's tactical brain, man management, coaching are extraordinary. He'll probably never match Fergie's record (13 Prems FFS!) but the man is a wonder.
Yes, there has been lots of money.....but we bought Alvarez for £14m and Akanji for £15m. And in earlier seasons, Torres for £20m (sold for £40m), Gundogan for £20m, Zinchenko for £1mm(sold for £30m)....
As a fifty something year old who grew up on the meagre offerings of Shaun Goater and Paul Dickov, I make no apology for loving the football we play.
Secondly, off the pitch. Well, its complicated. The FA charges relate to up to I think 2018, so even if upheld, they wouldn't affect trophies won in the last 5 years. Aside from that there is a mixed bag of matters levelled against City ranging from sportswashing for a nasty regime to effectively buying trophies.
I am somewhat conflicted on all of this. On the one hand, football is my escape from real life. I want to stand on the terrace full of tribalism and scream and yell and cheer and boo and switch off the rational, analytical part of my brain. On the other hand, I don't want to ignore ethical questions.
But like most matters these days, there are facts and there facts. Many of those shouting about City don't know who owns them or what human rights they are supposed to have failed. And they aren't shouting about human rights in any other context. But that doesn't mean that there isn't some substance to the claims. But I also think City are being singled out because of their success. Nobody talks about Spurs benefiting from the investment of a tax exile or Stan Kroenke's bloodsports TV Channel. I totally get why non-City fans are at best indifferent to us winning trophies - I felt the same watching Chelsea win stuff with Abramovich's money. But the reality is that football is such a vast money and PR business that it attracts high stakes rollers who almost all have skeletons in their closet.
No use issuing a fine on its own as it means nothing to the financial wealth of such owners - Commit the crime, pay the fine and move on will be their attitude - If the charges relate to say a 5 year period, then for the next 5 seasons make them start with a 10 or 15 point deduction, for each season - Plus issue a fine that can be spread to lower leagues and grass root levels
It could have siphoned off a lot of the hyper-money clubs, TV deals and sponsorships into their own mini-league (which, arguably, would have become pretty boring after a fairly short while), leaving the remaining clubs in the domestic leagues to get back to playing a game.
With the "big" clubs gone, the domestic competitions might have been seen as devalued, lost some of that TV/sponsorship revenues and thus become less attractive to the investment vehicles.
Maybe ...
I've seen City play many times live now, and it is a bit boring. The game tends to be 90% possession for City, and the opposition soaking it up and trying to catch them on the counter. It's effective but for a neutral it's dull because the game is so closed down.
I don't think the Man City/Guardiola achievement is as great as is being made out to be when you consider the resources he has. And you'd have expected a CL by now too. Klopp's achievements with Liverpool is far greater IMO. He has Henderson in midfield... Henderson... He is in transition and may get 4th again. Multiple finals with much more limited resources and an ageing team is unbelievable. I feel that Guardiola needs players who are intelligent enough to play for him, whilst Klopp makes those players intelligent enough through coaching. I'm in the Klopp Kamp really, not to say Pep isn't amazing, he is.
Yea because of all the efforts to prevent it from happening the last time they were taken to court.
I don't envy being a City fan right now, even with those titles and that football. I understand your confliction. I think for those who have a conscience it must be difficult. Our owners (West ham) are not nice people, but there are levels to this, and sports washing human rights abuses is basically at the top of the pile. We can all engage in whatabouterry but the reality is, it's the biggest that get the most attention and we can't just say that as everyone does it we should ignore the evidence that is presented in front of us.
And as for knowing what they're accused of? Amnesty International have heavily documented the human rights abuses of the Abu Dhabi Royal Family/State, and the meddling in UK policy, as well as the circumnavigating of the FFP rules.
Personally, if we get taken over by the likes of Chelsea (Pre War), Newcastle, Man UTD, Man CIty I'd cancel my season ticket. Football isn't worth my moral integrity.
But for all of that, you won on the pitch and we have to give you your plaudits for the actual football, which although often makes for a dull game, is very effective.
On Klopp. Agree, he's done an excellent job and would probably have had similar success to Pep if he'd been at City. Not sure I agree with your comment that Pep needs intelligent players but Klopp makes them intelligent. Can anyone be coached to be intelligent? And, the number of players who have improved through being under Pep is long indeed. A counter argument is that Klopp's tactics are pretty one dimensional...high press, high press, high press. And after two seasons, the team is shagged. Both great coaches. Who has done a better job? Depends which criteria one cherry picks to define success...
Well, I mean that he manages to get so much out of players that are good, but aren't world beaters, and manages to win titles/trophies and CL's with them as important, focal points of his team.
I think that players can be coached to become more intelligent yes. Pep will pick the best in class for those positions either at a particular age or because they're the next big thing (Grealish, Haaland etc), and they already have the attributes and footballing intelligence needed and he improves them, but they already have that foundation. Klopp does that too, but what he does more because of budgetary restraints is take players like Salah, who went from club to club, not achieving their potential, and turns them into the best player in the world. He has players like Milner, Henderson, Oxlade Chamberlian, players who are decent but not world beaters and makes them into the most important elements of his teams for other reasons than purely footballing ones. While they both amazing coaches in this regard, in my opinion Klopp does this much more than Pep.
And Klopps teams are shagged because he has a much smaller squad and depth, and smaller budget. You just can't expect him to keep up every year. Liverpool are actually 9th in their outlay, City are first.
I respect Pep immensely, but I think that Klopps job is harder and he gets more out of players that you wouldn't expect to achieve what they have. Considering the years that Liverpool won the league, the CL, last year, how many would have got in Man City's first team? Salah and TAA definitely, VVD probably when he was great, Mane when he played for them, but surely that's it? 3-4? And they still win the CL, the league, the FA Cup. That just says it all for me really.
You'd expect their outlay to be high, they're a huge club. But are they spending as much as City? Man Utd? The evidence says no.
This is the evidence I have from some quick googling, the numbers are probably different from different sources but it's all within this ballpark from what I can tell. if you know different please correct me!
The total spend for Liverpool on transfers under Klopp is:
Total Spent: £680.06million
Total Sold: £435.74million
Total Net Spend: £244.68million
The total spend for Man City on transfers under Pep is:
Total Spent: £1.18billion
Total Sold: £518.2million
Total Net Spend: £661.8million
I can't see Liverpool spending £400m a year more on wages and agents fees.
They're 9th in the league in their overall outlay in the last 5 years, even behind West Ham.
They're 4th,behind Man Utd, City in their wage budget.
1. Manchester United – £222,984,000
2. Chelsea – £169,720,000
3. Manchester City – £163,060,000
4. Liverpool – £141,782,000
I know people dislike Liverpool FC, but the evidence just underlines the amazing job that he's done there if you ask me.