The cricket thread

crunchman · August 2019

Warne just said on air that England can't bat that badly again. The challenge is made.

scrumhalf · August 2019

Well, there's plenty of football and rugby over the weekend.

guitars4you · August 2019

And the guy who scored the most runs in test match cricket for England last summer can't get a match

Not a bad bowler as well

RandallFlagg · August 2019

Where's the pissing rain when you need it? 2 days of typical Leeds weather would be perfect now.

NorthernGooner · August 2019

Never seen the point of Bayliss whatsoever. That inane grin and the floppy hat. He must have been looking down at his wage slip every time he's shown on the England balcony gurning away. Still one of his successes must be Leach. Looking on the bright side England have found their new Ashley Giles.

sixstringsupplies · August 2019

Whilst I can just about remember the performances of the 90s, I don't think I've ever been more disappointed in the England Test team. (I'm 32 for context, so England test cricket has been pretty healthy since 2003 or so for me)

....I'm just repeating what others have said.

1) Can't wait for Bayliss to go.
2) I would trade the World Cup for a top 3 test team/couldn't care if we never win the thing again
3) Root should resign after this series. It's on course to be 10 ashes tests, 0 wins.

The ECB need to change it around. I've noticed that during every test this series, *most* days as soon as the final ball is bowled, the Sky Sports cricket channel buggers off to some T20 Blast game.

and next year we have The Hundred. Any England player with Test match ambitions worth their salt should refuse to play.

On the plus side...Leach has looked the best England spinner since Swann retired and Stokes bowled his heart out today.

Test Cricket is one of my main passions in life. If i had the money I would follow the England team around the world each year watching test cricket. Today was the first time I can honestly remember turning it off.

iseverynamegone · August 2019

The point of Baylis was always the one day game and to be fair he couldn’t have done much better in that respect. Doesn’t make the shower of shite today any less easier to watch though.

sixstringsupplies · August 2019

iseverynamegone said:

The point of Baylis was always the one day game and to be fair he couldn’t have done much better in that respect. Doesn’t make the shower of shite today any less easier to watch though.

Of course, he was brought in to win the WC and did it. But the effect to the test team has been detrimental. The test team has really poor since Root became captain and a bit less poor in the last 18 months or so of Cook's reign.

Heartfeltdawn · August 2019

guitars4you said:

And the guy who scored the most runs in test match cricket for England last summer can't get a match

Not a bad bowler as well

Who's that then? Buttler topped the run scoring charts against Pakistan and India.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=12026;team=1;type=series

https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-series/2619/india-tour-of-england-2018/stats#!/?statsType=mostRuns&seriesType=bilateral&seriesId=2619&matchTypeId=1&seriesTeam1=9&seriesTeam2=2

Suddenly Cook's average as opener in both series doesn't look so bad.

Heartfeltdawn · August 2019

sixstringsupplies said:

....I'm just repeating what others have said.

1) Can't wait for Bayliss to go.
2) I would trade the World Cup for a top 3 test team/couldn't care if we never win the thing again
3) Root should resign after this series. It's on course to be 10 ashes tests, 0 wins.

The ECB need to change it around. I've noticed that during every test this series, *most* days as soon as the final ball is bowled, the Sky Sports cricket channel buggers off to some T20 Blast game.

and next year we have The Hundred. Any England player with Test match ambitions worth their salt should refuse to play.

On the plus side...Leach has looked the best England spinner since Swann retired and Stokes bowled his heart out today.

Test Cricket is one of my main passions in life. If i had the money I would follow the England team around the world each year watching test cricket. Today was the first time I can honestly remember turning it off.

The ECB are changing things around: that's part of the problem!

I hope T-Hun falls flat on its arse and the ECB end up looking even more fucking stupid and greedy than they did over Stanford.

shrinkwrap · August 2019

Well the comments here are better than the match. Nothing to add. Ho hum.

RandallFlagg · August 2019

I look forward to a home Ashes series so, so much, it seems to take forever to come round again, I was so excited as I have tickets to go for a day for the first time ever and I feel so angry and frustrated that it will be to watch a pointless dead rubber game because the opportunity to really make this a contest was thrown away so cheaply. Not just by one or two batsmen making silly errors but the whole batting performance was abysmal. This was not the innings for that to happen you idiots. They should be berated vigorously by the coach for this.

Joe Root captaining world cup winning England, on his home ground, on a sunny day with Aus on the ropes without thier best batsman and just 179 to chase, opportunity to rest the bowlers for a day and a half ready to blitz the third innings. It was set up perfectly for the win, a dream. Even a mediocre batting performance with a couple of half centuries would have been enough to at least level the scores. But no, we get this pathetic dribble and not one of them had the stones to come out and talk to TMS after the day's play, man up you spineless fools.

However as I like to be optimistic and enthusiastic about most things in life...

If England can get the last 4 wickets down for 20-30 runs and have 310 or so to chase then they have 2 1/2 days to patiently chase it down and win. It is distinctly possible, if it were Australia in this position they would fancy their chances and have a valiant go. It will take a remarkable, nigh on impossible turnaround from England and require 2 or 3 batsmen to really show exceptional patience and skill to get there and need all the lineup to contribute, but it is possible.

I can't believe that I'm hoping beyond hope a professional national Test team can score just 300 runs in a 2 1/2 day innings on home ground and that it sounds like a ridiculous fantasy.

If they do it, all is forgiven. If not, my weekend, month and year are all ruined.

Image: /plugins/EmojiExtender/emoji/fb/smiley.png

Listening to tears For Fears Sowing The Seeds Of Love loud through headphones has cheered me up. "Anything is possible sowing the seeds of love"

guitars4you · August 2019

Heartfeltdawn said:

guitars4you said:

And the guy who scored the most runs in test match cricket for England last summer can't get a match

Not a bad bowler as well

Who's that then? Buttler topped the run scoring charts against Pakistan and India.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=12026;team=1;type=series

https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-series/2619/india-tour-of-england-2018/stats#!/?statsType=mostRuns&seriesType=bilateral&seriesId=2619&matchTypeId=1&seriesTeam1=9&seriesTeam2=2

Suddenly Cook's average as opener in both series doesn't look so bad.

Curran - Sorry and slight edit - Best ave against India

NorthernGooner · August 2019

For those of a certain vintage.............

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/1620D/production/_84873609_lewis2_rex.jpg

I hate you Buttler.

Heartfeltdawn · August 2019

guitars4you said:
Curran - Sorry and slight edit - Best ave against India

I'm averaging 99.98 when it comes to stat-based pedanticity

But yeah, I said I'd have him opening the batting at the start of the series on the basis that he had scored runs at international level, knows how to handle a bat, and his bowling would be more than useful. At the very worst, he'd have matched the 49 runs Roy has contributed this series.

earwighoney · August 2019

Heartfeltdawn said:
You start by looking at the women's game. So much of the financial boost a few years back went into the top level with the goal of winning the World Cup. This short-term goal was achieved but it was at the price of the domestic structure going nowhere. Cricket Australia went long-term and now they're light years ahead of everyone having spent their financial boost wisely by strengthening top and bottom and making their domestic structure better.

the men's game has had the financial boost going on for years and focused on the short term goal of winning the World Cup. This was achieved by fucking over county cricket, primarily the one-day competition and the County Championship, and this will be compounded next season with the introduction of the Hundred, a competition which so far seems to be focused on rewarding Australians with fat coaching contracts.

I hope to shit that the Test-loving fraternity do everything possible to boycott the team if we get stuffed this series. Don't attend internationals, stay away from the Hundred. Nothing would send a greater message to the ECB than Pakistan and Windies series next year where there are vast expanses of empty seating.

Great post.

Something else I'd like to add which you already addressed is the appointment of Ed Smith, which IMO is the issue of cronyism which seems to rotting English cricket.

Genuinely I can't even think of any other sport where two of the highest ranked positions in the game have gone to people with absolutely no experience (Ed Smith & Andy Strauss)

crunchman · August 2019

earwighoney said:

Something else I'd like to add which you already addressed is the appointment of Ed Smith, which IMO is the issue of cronyism which seems to rotting English cricket.

Genuinely I can't even think of any other sport where two of the highest ranked positions in the game have gone to people with absolutely no experience (Ed Smith & Andy Strauss)

Aren't they both old boys of prestigious public schools?

guitars4you · August 2019

Heartfeltdawn said:

guitars4you said:
Curran - Sorry and slight edit - Best ave against India

I'm averaging 99.98 when it comes to stat-based pedanticity

But yeah, I said I'd have him opening the batting at the start of the series on the basis that he had scored runs at international level, knows how to handle a bat, and his bowling would be more than useful. At the very worst, he'd have matched the 49 runs Roy has contributed this series.

It is a case of where do you fit Curran in - They want Butler to bat with a free spirit - But chances have not arisen - Anderson may well be back for the 4th and 5th test, so chances are Woakes will have to make way (won't be Broad or Archer unless they rotate Broad but I'm not in favour of that)

You maybe right about Curran to open - I've heard some of the R5 pundits support this - They see him more as a long term batsman who can bowl a bit, more than an all-rounder

I think that assuming we don't win this match, then the 4th and 5th test matches need to be also about long term planning and the Africa tour - With that in mind where does this fit in with Anderson, Broad and Denley

A lot of questions - Not sure the answers are there

In short how to loose the Ashes in one session on Friday morning

VimFuego · August 2019

jeez, can't we just throw in the towel? if this was boxing, the bout'd have been stopped by now.

crunchman · August 2019

Any discussion about the long term future has to start with the captaincy. Root averages 52.8 when he's not been captain. He averages 40.4 as captain. The captaincy is obviously affecting his batting. On recent evidence, he's not a great captain either. He overbowled Archer at Lords, and he overbowled Stokes yesterday. If he was the second coming of Brearley, or even Vaughan, then it might be worth sacrificing his batting, but at this point I'd seriously be thinking of making someone else captain, and tell him to concentrate on his batting.

While I was writing that, Bairstow has just dropped Labuschagne for the second time. He's also given away a good few byes in the series. Foakes has to be in. I'm sure he would have made more runs than Buttler (54 runs at 10.8). Bairstow has made 3900 test runs, and in the absence of test quality batsmen, I'd probably play him as a specialist batsman at 5 or 6.

The bowling doesn't look too bad. Anderson doesn't have long left, but Broad is bowling well and probably has 2 or 3 years left. Archer and Stokes should be around for the long term. Stone looked decent against Ireland. Curran can give you an extra option as the 4th seamer, and stiffen the batting.

The big problem is the top order batting. Burns isn't great but he's probably capable of averaging mid 30s long term, and he generally gives the impression that there is a reasonable chance of him seeing off the new ball and being there after 20 overs.

If we keep Burns and Root, then we need to find two top order batsmen from somewhere. Sibley and Crawley are a couple of the names being mentioned. You need to get them in the side at the right time and give them the right support. I don't think Bayliss has helped with this hit your way out of trouble approach. They need to get the appointment of the new coach right. They need to find another Duncan Fletcher - someone who will toughen up the team.

earwighoney · August 2019

crunchman said:

earwighoney said:

Something else I'd like to add which you already addressed is the appointment of Ed Smith, which IMO is the issue of cronyism which seems to rotting English cricket.

Genuinely I can't even think of any other sport where two of the highest ranked positions in the game have gone to people with absolutely no experience (Ed Smith & Andy Strauss)

Aren't they both old boys of prestigious public schools?

They both played together at Middlesex.

Heartfeltdawn · August 2019

earwighoney said:
Great post.

Something else I'd like to add which you already addressed is the appointment of Ed Smith, which IMO is the issue of cronyism which seems to rotting English cricket.

Genuinely I can't even think of any other sport where two of the highest ranked positions in the game have gone to people with absolutely no experience (Ed Smith & Andy Strauss)

I'll talk about Strauss and Smith in a bit but first you have to remember where the power is now, and the reminder is hereby prodivded by the ECB thrmselves:

https://www.ecb.co.uk/about-us/about-the-ecb

"A lifelong cricket fan, Colin has together with Tom Harrison overseen a period of success for the ECB since 2015. This includes significant governance reforms and the move toa fully independent and more diverse Board that is representative of the whole game. He also helped pave the way for The Hundred, ECB’s new and exciting 100-ball competition launching in 2020."

Graves became deputy chair in 2013 before ascending to the full throne in 2015. Harrison came in in early 2015, Strauss came later. The board changes to something more diverse and independent was there to wrest power away from some of the counties, the two most vocally critical of the ECB now being Somerset and Surrey (remember when Surrey won the CC and Graves pulled out of the trophy presentation? That shit speaks volumes). Think of the legal problems George Dobell, a passionate supporter of county cricket, has been having with the thin-skinned Graves. I can't recall any other cricket journalist ending up in Private Eye quite so often for doing nothing wrong.

Strauss as captain wasn't remonstrative or in your face. In my view, he was brought in as the first director of cricket because those above him knew they wouldn't get any shit from him. Graves and Harrison have presided over the shambles of Durham being heavily punished whilst Glamorgan got away with absolute financial murder, the fallout of the fucking awful international match bidding process, the ruination of the first-class schedule, pushing T-Hun over established competitions, the complete failure to improve women's cricket domestically and internationally over the last four years (never has a World Cup Final win looked so shallow two years later), and the slide of the men's Test team. The Hundred is nothing more than a cash cow to help certain county clubs who blew their finances to shit on international cricket out of the monetary lavatory whilst hoping that they can market the franchise worldwide and coin it in there.

I'd offer this up as a fairly chilling read into the thoughts of Harrison and Sanjay Patel, MD of T-Hun:

http://www.sportspromedia.com/analysis/the-hundred-cricket-ecb-tom-harrison-patel-fortnite-t20

Lots in there I could comment on but Nick Hoult's tweet is worth greater investigation:

"Some figures from the Hundred briefing today: Current ticket buyers for professional cricket in England
are 94% white British, 82% male. Average age of ticket buyers is 50."

The way this was presented was in a "Eeek, we need to be more diverse!" way. But the wording is key: "Ticket buyers". If a father of three girls buys 4 tickets for himself and his offspring to attend an ODI game, then he counts as a ticket buyer. The girls don't. It's selective data picking which ultimately sounds damning about cricket ticket buyers when you strip context away. Whrn you put that next to the patronising shit about T-Hun attracting women and kids during the summer holidays... blah. Sexist old bastards I can deal with: bastards chasing money by claiming they're some regime for diversity change are worse.

So yeah.. Strauss had his problem elements in the ECB but the buck stops at the very top.

Heartfeltdawn · August 2019

@earwighoney ;

And as for Ed Smith... jack of all trades, master of fuck all. Dude can write a book, I'll say that, but he's classic too many fingers in too many pies, too little specific success. I laughed my balls off at that Cricinfo article he plagiarised from the Economist. As for our win in Sri Lanka that was put down to Smith's brave pioneering selection...

Let's say I had a few discussions on Twitter with some cricket journalists over that one. All seemed to herald it as stunning, as if beating a Sri Lanka team who had lost two of the greatest batsmen in Test history in a short space of time and who had never recovered from losing their premier off spinner was akin to thrashing the Invincibles. Sceptical old me said that there were severe cracks. Look at that side who won the 2nd Test and therefore the series:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/18602/scorecard/1140386/sri-lanka-vs-england-2nd-test-eng-in-sl-2018-19

Six of them aren't currently playing for England at Headingley for one reason or another. By contrast the 2nd and final Test against Bangladesh in 2005 saw a side turn out who suffered two changes by the time the Ashes rolled around (Giles in for Batty, KP in for Thorpe).

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/14831/scorecard/210366/england-vs-bangladesh-2nd-test-bangladesh-tour-of-england-2005

It is a perplexing quirk that folk herald England's approach to the 50 over game as right because "They finally selected one day players and told them to play in a one day way" yet we are now in the position for Test cricket where one day players can be selected and asked to play in a Test way without any thought as to whether they can actually do it.

scrumhalf · August 2019

Heartfeltdawn said:

They finally selected one day players and told them to play in a one day way" yet we are now in the position for Test cricket where one day players can be selected and asked to play in a Test way without any thought as to whether they can actually do it.

I'm not sure they've been asked to play in a Test way. Surely the first rule of Test cricket is not to be out. As Boycott says, you can't score runs from the pavillion.

We are in the bizarre position of having lots of money flowing around, but ill-directed.

The Hundred is an almost unbelievably crap idea.

1) Let's miss out huge swathes of the country who won't want to travel for hours to see a game.

2) Let's have five-ball overs so that the in-between-overs delays for field settings and general lolloping around, which accounts for much of the delay in the current game, stay exactly the same.

3) Let's play a format that nobody else plays. Our one-day cricket was spectacularly successful when we had domestic no 50-over that we should repeat the exercise.

As for our chances today, I don't know what the odds are but has anyone asked Dennis Lillee and Rod Marsh if it's worth a punt?

iseverynamegone · August 2019

Via Twitter -

Australia batting in this series

Smith & Labuschagne: 591 runs @ 98.50

Everyone else: 876 @ 15.92#Ashes

.... again , I’ll have a go at 4 in Aussie line up ....

Heartfeltdawn · August 2019

scrumhalf said:
I'm not sure they've been asked to play in a Test way. Surely the first rule of Test cricket is not to be out. As Boycott says, you can't score runs from the pavillion.

By virtue of being picked, you are being asked to play in a Test way or, at the very least, in a different way to how you would in a 50 over competition. It's why Rashid failed so badly at Test level. It's easier to get wickets against one day batsmen looking to take you on. At Test level, those who are patient won't go for it because they know there's a half tracker coming along very soon.

There is a perceived way to play in Tests. It's why people talked of Chris Woakes opening. It's why people used to get pissed at KP getting out playing some fucking awful shot. Even with the glut of limited overs shite, the perceived way is to be more defensive and patient. The like of Gayle, Sehwag, and Warner at Test level are still somewhat freakish in a world where the Smiths and Williamsons look supreme.

Jason Roy would have to be a plank to think that he can go in as a Test match opener playing as he does in 50 over cricket.

RandallFlagg · August 2019

scrumhalf said:

As for our chances today, I don't know what the odds are but has anyone asked Dennis Lillee and Rod Marsh if it's worth a punt?

Currently, on Betfair Exchange, Australia are massively odds on at 1.18 (2/11) to win and England better than I would expect at 6.2 (5/1) to win. The draw is 599/1

RandallFlagg · August 2019

3% of required runs in the bank for no wickets. I would imagine there are huge sighs of relief in the England lunch room, it's clearly in the bag and the afternoon will be a walk in the park.

scrumhalf · August 2019

Oh fuck, here we go again. 15-2. Both openers gone.

Will we beat the first innings score?

camf · August 2019

RandallFlagg said:

3% of required runs in the bank for no wickets. I would imagine there are huge sighs of relief in the England lunch room, it's clearly in the bag and the afternoon will be a walk in the park.

Well, you certainly are something of a soothsaying genius. Any chance of some lottery number predictions to follow?

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