XL Bully Dogs.........

Dominic · September 2023

I'm a serious dog lover and animal lover in general .
I have 6 dogs and a pet Fox who behaves like a dog.
I AM CERTAINLY NOT ANTI-DOG but I just hate these things as well as the similar / part bred legal side-step mutations of the same type designed to permit imbeciles to legally harbour a dangerous animal .
I have read of the horrific attacks in the papers and seen some video but for the first time I actually saw one of these things last week ,fortunately chained to the Road Man Owner and it was one of the most aggressive and nastiest creatures on four legs that I've seen outside of a Safari Park.The owner perfectly fitted the stereotype and stank of weed from 30 paces away.
I appreciate the argument that it's about the owner not the dog but ,frankly , I question why a true dog lover would want one as a pet in the first place ........they are about as loveable as an Hyena.
These things need to be banned /destroyed (as well as the owners )....they are not safe to be in the public domain ; it's not just the human threat,child deaths etc but the number of poor dog-lovers who are now scared to walk their normal loving pets in parks, wasteland or even their own gardens when there is one of these things in the neighbourhood.

theatreanchor · September 2023

What is the attraction of these sorts of breeds? Is it something to do with looking like a hard man?

Dominic · September 2023

I'm sure there's an element of machismo but I think it's the same mentality as people who have a fascination for Guns and ,of course, the Enforcer element of collecting your drug deal money or fighting off other mal-intents .
No doubt some are kept purely for dog-fighting or as a breeding machine to make money from other arseholes.

Sassafras · September 2023

Just tell the police you saw them attack an old lady. The armed response unit'll take care of things.

digitalscream · September 2023

Genetic changes have absolutely no effect in UK law, because the law doesn't decide the breed by genetics (in fact, as demonstrated by Belfast City Council, the law will actively dismiss DNA evidence of breed in favour of head measurements).

And...it's been demonstrated time and time again that even those exact same dogs bred and trained for fighting can be rehabilitated. See the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's fighting ring - not one had a bite incident for the rest of their lives after they were taken.

In the 80s, everybody was saying all of the exact same things about GSDs. In the 90s, it was Rottweilers. In the 2010s it was huskies, Malamutes and Akitas.

I still maintain that the solution is not whack-a-mole banning breeds here and there according to the media's whims; it's prosecuting the owners exactly as though they committed the crime.

Tannin · September 2023

In any civilised society they would simply be put down.

(Dunno what you do with all the ownerless dogs left over after that though.)

Dominic · September 2023

Well,I've got a Mother-in-Law who can be a bit of a nuisance so if you're sure that'll do the trick then I'll set it up
......Hopefully the armed response are half way through a tea break when they get the call
Seems like a WIN/WIN situation

Jo-to-po · September 2023

It's a tricky one. We had this with staffies 10-15 years ago, didn't we? As with staffies then, this breed is the flavour of the month for the arsehole who wants to look hard. Unlike staffies, however, these things are built like brick shithouses.

Axe_meister · September 2023

Staffies are no longer considered "hard" enough, because so many have been rehomed by responsible owners and have turned out to be complete sweeties when handled right.
I've seen quite a few people with these XLs and even the biggest strongest looking have problems handling the strength of these things, let alone a very petit woman I saw the other day who could not even handle a puppy version of the dog.

Haych · September 2023

Dominic said:
I appreciate the argument that it's about the owner not the dog but........

See, you say this, and my sister often comes out with the same thing "there's no such thing as a bad dog......."

But, whenever reports of dog attacks hit the news and somebody is mauled or even killed by a dog, it's always a certain kind of dog involved, they are always the big, aggressive breeds or cross breeds known to have a dodgy temperament.

Rarely, if ever, do you ever hear of a child being mauled by an Old English Sheep Dog, or a granny being attacked by a dangerously out of control Red Setter.

Ironically, my sister was recently attacked by that very same kind of dog with a typical Roadman on the other end of the lead.

Dominic · September 2023

digitalscream said:

Genetic changes have absolutely no effect in UK law, because the law doesn't decide the breed by genetics (in fact, as demonstrated by Belfast City Council, the law will actively dismiss DNA evidence of breed in favour of head measurements).

And...it's been demonstrated time and time again that even those exact same dogs bred and trained for fighting can be rehabilitated. See the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's fighting ring - not one had a bite incident for the rest of their lives after they were taken.

In the 80s, everybody was saying all of the exact same things about GSDs. In the 90s, it was Rottweilers. In the 2010s it was huskies, Malamutes and Akitas.

I still maintain that the solution is not whack-a-mole banning breeds here and there according to the media's whims; it's prosecuting the owners exactly as though they committed the crime.

No.....I have huge experience of large powerful dogs ...I bred and showed Irish Wolfhounds for 30 years and I have been closely involved with Kangals and Malamutes .....I also foster a neighbours Akita when they go on holiday.
This is totally different.
Kangals are a shepherd , Malamutes are a draught Dog , Wolfhounds are a Hunting Hound ......all derived for a purpose .
The only derivation of these monstrosities is a consciously genetic bred fighting machine.
There's lots of dog breeds with a POTENTIAL to inflict huge damage but the WHOLE PURPOSE of these monstrosities is to do exactly that.....................That's a HUGE difference.
There is no worthwhile point or purpose in them .
I'm sure if I had a puppy XL it would be as docile as Spaniel but that's not the point.
My friend ,an extremely experienced Wolfhound breeder had a dog that would and tried to kill 2 humans ....it's unknown in the breed.....when euthanised it was found to have a brain-tumour.The potential for damage was huge.
Keeping one of these Bullies is no different to keeping TNT in the kitchen cupboard .......it serves no purpose ,it's volatile and one day there is a chance it will go off of it's own accord...............it's just a pointless risk with awful consequences .

mikeyrob73 · September 2023

the XL Bully is just the latest dog to be blamed for everything, Staffies, Rotties, GSD etc have all been classed as " devil dogs" previously.
The owners need to held responsible as its a status symbol, lets start prosecuting the owners, your dog attacks someone, the owner gets an assault /attempted manslaughter charge. Start dealing with these scrotes properly

Dominic · September 2023

Jo-to-po said:

It's a tricky one. We had this with staffies 10-15 years ago, didn't we? As with staffies then, this breed is the flavour of the month for the arsehole who wants to look hard. Unlike staffies, however, these things are built like brick shithouses.

True enough
Staffie = Pistol
XL Bully = Howitzer
There's a whole dimension of difference in the damage potential

digitalscream · September 2023

Axe_meister said:

I've seen quite a few people with these XLs and even the biggest strongest looking have problems handling the strength of these things, let alone a very petit woman I saw the other day who could not even handle a puppy version of the dog.

One problem is that people wildly underestimate canine strength - I'm a 16st not-particularly-weak bloke, and our 7st Akita has enough pulling power that it takes all of my strength to stop her when she's decided it's go-time (usually a sheep issue). Even a Westie has enough strength and four-wheel-drive to pull someone off-balance if they're not paying attention, which is why it drives me absolutely nuts that you see people walking their dogs while on the phone, usually with an extendable lead that gives them zero control.

Dog ownership is inherently risky. If people can't think that through, then the law should be used to make it absolutely clear - transfer all of the risk to the owner, and if a dog attacks somebody then it's GBH. If it kills somebody, then its a manslaughter/murder charge. It won't take many "normal" people going to jail for 20 years to make people think twice before buying that cute puppy or that status dog.

tony99 · September 2023

mikeyrob73 said:

the XL Bully is just the latest dog to be blamed for everything, Staffies, Rotties, GSD etc have all been classed as " devil dogs" previously.
The owners need to held responsible as its a status symbol, lets start prosecuting the owners, your dog attacks someone, the owner gets an assault /attempted manslaughter charge. Start dealing with these scrotes properly

It's true, the dogs get stigmatised when it's the owners whom should be punished.

The Birmingham video is bloody horrific though, poor guy in the petrol station, fair play to the lads who tried to help him.

ROOG · September 2023

I am easily drawn in by stereo types and as a result I am very weary of any powerful looking dog, Recent attacks in my neighborhood have been loose dogs attacking other dogs whether they be on a lead or not. In both cases I know of, the injuries' sustained by the dog victims were horrific, the authorities did nothing after all both victims survived, perhaps this is a measure of how acceptable behavior is! "Well they survived didn't they, what's your problem?"

For me any dog can be dangerous to a child and that's why we keep our placid Cockerpoos on a lead when out in public, but the power of these XL creatures means that if they do loose the plot the damage they could do could be much worse, I struggle to see how allowing these dogs in public is a reasonable risk. (but hey there are idiots behind the wheel and they continue to be a hazard too!)

Chalky · September 2023

digitalscream said:

Genetic changes have absolutely no effect in UK law, because the law doesn't decide the breed by genetics (in fact, as demonstrated by Belfast City Council, the law will actively dismiss DNA evidence of breed in favour of head measurements).

And...it's been demonstrated time and time again that even those exact same dogs bred and trained for fighting can be rehabilitated. See the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's fighting ring - not one had a bite incident for the rest of their lives after they were taken.

In the 80s, everybody was saying all of the exact same things about GSDs. In the 90s, it was Rottweilers. In the 2010s it was huskies, Malamutes and Akitas.

I still maintain that the solution is not whack-a-mole banning breeds here and there according to the media's whims; it's prosecuting the owners exactly as though they committed the crime.

So wait till the dog attacks a child, or mauls a child, or disfigures a child, or kills a child, and then prosecute the owners? That's plain stupid.

Prosecute the owners up front? They'll just boast about that as if it is a badge of courage.

Treat dangerous breeds like guns - ban them, do whatever you need to get them off the streets.

S56035 · September 2023

I think Dominic is right in what he says about them being bread for causing damage (at least that's how it looks to me) so should be treated different but I also totally agree with the idea of putting the punishment on the owner. We don't sentence knives to death but we do sanction those that use them to cut people instead of food.

Dominic · September 2023

tony99 said:

mikeyrob73 said:

the XL Bully is just the latest dog to be blamed for everything, Staffies, Rotties, GSD etc have all been classed as " devil dogs" previously.
The owners need to held responsible as its a status symbol, lets start prosecuting the owners, your dog attacks someone, the owner gets an assault /attempted manslaughter charge. Start dealing with these scrotes properly

It's true, the dogs get stigmatised when it's the owners whom should be punished.

The Birmingham video is bloody horrific though, poor guy in the petrol station, fair play to the lads who tried to help him.

If you watch that clip carefully there's a sadly ironic bit where the chap wielding the stick to hit the dog accidently hits the victim amidst the panic

Dominic · September 2023

Tannin said:

In any civilised society they would simply be put down.

(Dunno what you do with all the ownerless dogs left over after that though.)

What a shame you cant give a LOL and a Wisdom at the same time

Kilgore · September 2023

digitalscream said:

Genetic changes have absolutely no effect in UK law, because the law doesn't decide the breed by genetics (in fact, as demonstrated by Belfast City Council, the law will actively dismiss DNA evidence of breed in favour of head measurements).

And...it's been demonstrated time and time again that even those exact same dogs bred and trained for fighting can be rehabilitated. See the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's fighting ring - not one had a bite incident for the rest of their lives after they were taken.

In the 80s, everybody was saying all of the exact same things about GSDs. In the 90s, it was Rottweilers. In the 2010s it was huskies, Malamutes and Akitas.

I still maintain that the solution is not whack-a-mole banning breeds here and there according to the media's whims; it's prosecuting the owners exactly as though they committed the crime.

Small comfort if your kid as been mauled to death by one.

Ban them. There are hundreds of other dog breeds to choose from.

Axe_meister · September 2023

We should all get Beagles. Used in animal experiments because they won't go for the handlers.

barnstorm · September 2023

digitalscream said:

It won't take many "normal" people going to jail for 20 years to make people think twice before buying that cute puppy or that status dog.

The general public can't be trusted to be responsible and thoughtful

Agree, though re. prosecuting people more fully. And it should be dramatically more difficult (not expensive) to own any dog.

mikeyrob73 · September 2023

Chalky said:

digitalscream said:

Genetic changes have absolutely no effect in UK law, because the law doesn't decide the breed by genetics (in fact, as demonstrated by Belfast City Council, the law will actively dismiss DNA evidence of breed in favour of head measurements).

And...it's been demonstrated time and time again that even those exact same dogs bred and trained for fighting can be rehabilitated. See the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's fighting ring - not one had a bite incident for the rest of their lives after they were taken.

In the 80s, everybody was saying all of the exact same things about GSDs. In the 90s, it was Rottweilers. In the 2010s it was huskies, Malamutes and Akitas.

I still maintain that the solution is not whack-a-mole banning breeds here and there according to the media's whims; it's prosecuting the owners exactly as though they committed the crime.

So wait till the dog attacks a child, or mauls a child, or disfigures a child, or kills a child, and then prosecute the owners? That's plain stupid.

Prosecute the owners up front? They'll just boast about that as if it is a badge of courage.

Treat dangerous breeds like guns - ban them, do whatever you need to get them off the streets.

Couldnt disagree more

whats a " dangerous breed" ? if a cockapoo kills a child is that then a dangerous breed? more people are bit by collies every year than any bull breed , is that now a dangerous breed? its the OWNERS that need to be held responsible, any dog can be a twat, i have previously owned a staffie, 14 inches tall, 15kg, so not a big dog at all, the most placid, people loving dog i have ever met, yet i watched people cross the road because of his breed.
The status that these little fuckwits get from owning these big bully/molloser types is why they own them, lets put a dog licence back in place, any dog has to be registered to its owner, and if that dog attacks someone the OWNER is responsible, not the dog.

Sassafras · September 2023

I love dogs but no-one needs one that can rip your throat out within seconds.
Certainly no breeder should be allowed to genetically create a hybrid monster.

Axe_meister · September 2023

There should be breed classifications a bit like guns.
Anyone can own an air pistol (and they can hurt when hit at close quarters), with ever increasing regulation of guns the more powerful they get.

digitalscream · September 2023

Chalky said:

digitalscream said:

Genetic changes have absolutely no effect in UK law, because the law doesn't decide the breed by genetics (in fact, as demonstrated by Belfast City Council, the law will actively dismiss DNA evidence of breed in favour of head measurements).

And...it's been demonstrated time and time again that even those exact same dogs bred and trained for fighting can be rehabilitated. See the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's fighting ring - not one had a bite incident for the rest of their lives after they were taken.

In the 80s, everybody was saying all of the exact same things about GSDs. In the 90s, it was Rottweilers. In the 2010s it was huskies, Malamutes and Akitas.

I still maintain that the solution is not whack-a-mole banning breeds here and there according to the media's whims; it's prosecuting the owners exactly as though they committed the crime.

So wait till the dog attacks a child, or mauls a child, or disfigures a child, or kills a child, and then prosecute the owners? That's plain stupid.

Prosecute the owners up front? They'll just boast about that as if it is a badge of courage.

Treat dangerous breeds like guns - ban them, do whatever you need to get them off the streets.

If you're talking about children, define "dangerous", then. If you're doing it by breed and fatal attacks, and just looking at the last 20 years, then that list includes spaniels, terriers, huskies and GSDs.

If you're doing it by bite frequency...you can add labradors, Shih Tzus, collies and retrievers to that list.

These are all breeds who've killed or disfigured children in the last 20 years.

The point is that banning breeds doesn't work because it's just whack-a-mole with an ever expanding list - if it did work, then we wouldn't have had any fatal attacks in the last 20-30 years. The cause of the problem is people wanting dogs who should never, ever be allowed to have them - licences don't work (that's proven), so the only deterrent available is being prosecuted after the fact.

And, if the market for those dogs dries up, then they'll never be bred in the first place. That is the preventative part, and it catches all present and future breeds.

Chalky · September 2023

mikeyrob73 said:

Chalky said:

digitalscream said:

Genetic changes have absolutely no effect in UK law, because the law doesn't decide the breed by genetics (in fact, as demonstrated by Belfast City Council, the law will actively dismiss DNA evidence of breed in favour of head measurements).

And...it's been demonstrated time and time again that even those exact same dogs bred and trained for fighting can be rehabilitated. See the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's fighting ring - not one had a bite incident for the rest of their lives after they were taken.

In the 80s, everybody was saying all of the exact same things about GSDs. In the 90s, it was Rottweilers. In the 2010s it was huskies, Malamutes and Akitas.

I still maintain that the solution is not whack-a-mole banning breeds here and there according to the media's whims; it's prosecuting the owners exactly as though they committed the crime.

So wait till the dog attacks a child, or mauls a child, or disfigures a child, or kills a child, and then prosecute the owners? That's plain stupid.

Prosecute the owners up front? They'll just boast about that as if it is a badge of courage.

Treat dangerous breeds like guns - ban them, do whatever you need to get them off the streets.

Couldnt disagree more

whats a " dangerous breed" ? if a cockapoo kills a child is that then a dangerous breed? more people are bit by collies every year than any bull breed , is that now a dangerous breed? its the OWNERS that need to be held responsible, any dog can be a twat, i have previously owned a staffie, 14 inches tall, 15kg, so not a big dog at all, the most placid, people loving dog i have ever met, yet i watched people cross the road because of his breed.
The status that these little fuckwits get from owning these big bully/molloser types is why they own them, lets put a fog licence back in place, any dog has to be registered to its owner, and if that dog attacks someone the OWNER is responsible, not the dog.

Same stupidity as earlier - wait till someone kid gets attacked and THEN take action? Protect the dog at all costs, sacrifice the victim instead?

And give up with "mine is so placid" nonsense. Every owner says the same right up to the point where the dog attacks.

PS Yes, I've owned dogs for decades, coming from a family of dog owners.

Dominic · September 2023

Axe_meister said:

We should all get Beagles. Used in animal experiments because they won't go for the handlers.

That's fine if you can afford to keep them in fags

euan · September 2023

Statistically they are a massive outlier for attacks and deaths compared to the other “dangerous” dogs of the past.

mikeyrob73 · September 2023

Chalky said:

mikeyrob73 said:

Chalky said:

digitalscream said:

Genetic changes have absolutely no effect in UK law, because the law doesn't decide the breed by genetics (in fact, as demonstrated by Belfast City Council, the law will actively dismiss DNA evidence of breed in favour of head measurements).

And...it's been demonstrated time and time again that even those exact same dogs bred and trained for fighting can be rehabilitated. See the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's fighting ring - not one had a bite incident for the rest of their lives after they were taken.

In the 80s, everybody was saying all of the exact same things about GSDs. In the 90s, it was Rottweilers. In the 2010s it was huskies, Malamutes and Akitas.

I still maintain that the solution is not whack-a-mole banning breeds here and there according to the media's whims; it's prosecuting the owners exactly as though they committed the crime.

So wait till the dog attacks a child, or mauls a child, or disfigures a child, or kills a child, and then prosecute the owners? That's plain stupid.

Prosecute the owners up front? They'll just boast about that as if it is a badge of courage.

Treat dangerous breeds like guns - ban them, do whatever you need to get them off the streets.

Couldnt disagree more

whats a " dangerous breed" ? if a cockapoo kills a child is that then a dangerous breed? more people are bit by collies every year than any bull breed , is that now a dangerous breed? its the OWNERS that need to be held responsible, any dog can be a twat, i have previously owned a staffie, 14 inches tall, 15kg, so not a big dog at all, the most placid, people loving dog i have ever met, yet i watched people cross the road because of his breed.
The status that these little fuckwits get from owning these big bully/molloser types is why they own them, lets put a fog licence back in place, any dog has to be registered to its owner, and if that dog attacks someone the OWNER is responsible, not the dog.

Same stupidity as earlier - wait till someone kid gets attacked and THEN take action? Protect the dog at all costs, sacrifice the victim instead?

And give up with "mine is so placid" nonsense. Every owner says the same right up to the point where the dog attacks.

PS Yes, I've owned dogs for decades, coming from a family of dog owners.

And give up with "mine is so placid" nonsense. Every owner says the same right up to the point where the dog attacks.

absolute sensationalist horseshit your talking there @Chalky ;;
i knew that dog better than my own family, i had 100% recall with him and trusted him , and if we were ever in a situation where there was any danger , to him or any other dog , i would remove him from that situation straight away.

your classing every dog of a certain type as a killer, and that is just fucking ridiculous. Dogs, probably more than any other animal are a product of their environment, teach them well, bring them up to respect and behave in the way you expect them to and you will have a good loyal friend for life, teach them to be twats and they will be , specially these Bully breeds, who are generally in my experience , more people dogs than dog dogs.

Hence why hold the owner responsible, not the dog, and certainly not the BREED of the dog.

oh and this is my current dog
100% recall at 9 month old, walks to heel and listens to every word i say, because i have put the time and effort in to make her that way

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XL Bully Dogs.........

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