INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS SAY U.S. HAS RETRIEVED CRAFT OF NON-HUMAN ORIGIN

darthed1981 · June 2023

Mellish said:

@Sporky ; How long we have is anyone's guess, and that's all it *could* be.

But it's interesting that you mention it because natural disasters (supervolcano eruptions, asteroid/comet impacts), fatal wars/ epidemics. If intelligent extraterrestrials exist, why wouldn'they they face these...catastrophes like we do, and possibly be wiped out?

Another possible solution to the Fermi Paradox... we ARE surrounded by planets that once hosted intelligent life, but intelligent life doesn't last long, because it destroys itself, or the probability of destruction from natural disaster approaches 1.

We have had "technology" as a species for about 10,000 years, and some would argue it's a strong possibility, even a probability we won't last the century... if this is common, then this is a possible solution (it's arguably part of the "great filter" argument, everyone destroys themselves before they colonise the universe).

ICBM · June 2023

darthed1981 said:

Another possible solution to the Fermi Paradox... we ARE surrounded by planets that once hosted intelligent life, but intelligent life doesn't last long, because it destroys itself, or the probability of destruction from natural disaster approaches 1.

We have had "technology" as a species for about 10,000 years, and some would argue it's a strong possibility, even a probability we won't last the century... if this is common, then this is a possible solution (it's arguably part of the "great filter" argument, everyone destroys themselves before they colonise the universe).

It's also worth remembering that it's only a 'mathematical certainty' that there are other advanced civilisations if the universe is infinite - and it very much isn't, either in size or age. In fact, the universe is still very young - about 13.5 billion years - in the terms necessary for intelligent life, anyway. The Earth itself at roughly 4.5 billion years is already a third of the age of the universe, and in the time before that the cycle of star birth and death needed to produce sufficient concentrations of the heavy elements necessary for intelligent life, and eventually for technology, has probably barely been enough. So even if we are not alone in being complex multicellular lifeforms, there's a non-zero probability we are the first to develop technology... and that's even without proposing a usually quick death for advanced civilisations.

goldtop · June 2023

Infinity is a useful mathematical idea that's not real-universe applicable.

For starters, if there was an infinite number of Thing A, there's no possibility of any amount of anything else. Because the space/time taken by the anything else must be occupied by more of Thing A. Therefore the existence of everything other than Thing A proves that infinity does not exist.

And the nonsense that an infinite number of £1 coins has the same mass as an infinite number of £50 notes.

VimFuego · June 2023

goldtop said:

Infinity is a useful mathematical idea that's not real-universe applicable.

For starters, if there was an infinite number of Thing A, there's no possibility of any amount of anything else. Because the space/time taken by the anything else must be occupied by more of Thing A. Therefore the existence of everything other than Thing A proves that infinity does not exist.

And the nonsense that an infinite number of £1 coins has the same mass as an infinite number of £50 notes.

that's fucking crazy, so many shops won't take £50 notes nowadays!

Mellish · June 2023

Advanced civilisations couldn't exist on a home planet whose parent star is a Sun-type main sequence. The star's Lifespan is too short. A good candidate would be a red dwarf.

But again, although a much, much greater lifespan, the hazards above would mean that (even if they exist) some will perish prematurely. In any case, a small, rocky planet orbiting a red dwarf would be hard to detect directly even with optical telescopes in space.

But this "Why haven't we heard from them if they're out there?", the so-called "Great Silence". Well we only listen on the hydrogen waveband
We *asume* that would be the one they'd use, too. It may well logical to us but radio telescopes may be something they've moved on from.

chillidoggy · June 2023

axisus said:

It's dumb. They talk about reverse engineering technology, but we have been able to reverse cars for literally decades.

Yes, but only the male gender is able to do it.

DaveJames · June 2023

Emp_Fab said:

If you accept that faster than light travel is impossible, which according to all theories and laws of physics is the case, then unless the alien species have lifespans of several thousand years AND are willing to sacrifice most of their lifespan travelling in a spacecraft that hopefully will not break down in the thousands of years journey, to visit Earth, remain anonymous, then either die or start the return journey of several thousand years back home just to report that humans are a bunch of halfwits doing their best to destroy the only planet for a billion miles, then... we haven't been visited by aliens.

Absolutely there are other civilisations out there, billions of them.

But - the distances are so mind-bogglingly astronomically, humongous, there is no way any of us have, or ever will, meet up.

I think you may have to think outside the box on this one, there's so much more to learn, very recently we have got to rely on the Internet, try explaining this to someone just seventy years ago.

DrCornelius · June 2023

DaveJames said:

Emp_Fab said:

If you accept that faster than light travel is impossible, which according to all theories and laws of physics is the case, then unless the alien species have lifespans of several thousand years AND are willing to sacrifice most of their lifespan travelling in a spacecraft that hopefully will not break down in the thousands of years journey, to visit Earth, remain anonymous, then either die or start the return journey of several thousand years back home just to report that humans are a bunch of halfwits doing their best to destroy the only planet for a billion miles, then... we haven't been visited by aliens.

Absolutely there are other civilisations out there, billions of them.

But - the distances are so mind-bogglingly astronomically, humongous, there is no way any of us have, or ever will, meet up.

I think you may have to think outside the box on this one, there's so much more to learn, very recently we have got to rely on the Internet, try explaining this to someone just seventy years ago.

It was only 15 years ago that the idea of Man City winning the treble would have been beyond the realms of human understanding or any measure of probability

darthed1981 · June 2023

Meanwhile over on the PhysicsBoard...

"Les Pauls vs Telecasters"

equalsql · June 2023

A couple of compelling eye-witnesss accounts..

Adey · June 2023

Just ask Professor Brian Cox.

equalsql · June 2023

An interesting take on the phenomena from anomalian.com..

Recently, several whistleblowers have come forward to reveal the existence of crashed UFOs and their recovered materials. Some of them claim to have worked on reverse engineering the alien technology, while others say they have seen the bodies of the extraterrestrial occupants.

These disclosures have sparked a renewed interest in the UFO phenomenon and its implications for humanity.

One of the most prominent researchers in this field is Jacques Vallee, a French-born computer scientist and astronomer who has been studying UFOs for decades. Vallee is not only a respected scientist, but also a visionary thinker who has challenged the conventional assumptions about the nature and origin of UFOs.

Vallee does not believe that UFOs are simply the spacecraft of some race of extraterrestrial visitors. This notion is too simplistic to explain their appearance, the frequency of their manifestations through recorded history, and the structure of the information exchanged with them during contact.

He is one of the few researchers who has proposed a scientific approach to the investigation of UFOs, based on the hypothesis that they are not extraterrestrial spacecraft, but rather manifestations of a higher intelligence that operates in dimensions beyond our physical reality.

Vallee proposes that UFOs are manifestations of a yet unrecognized level of consciousness, independent of man but closely linked to the earth. He suggests that UFOs may be windows into a parallel universe, another dimension where there are other human races living.

He also speculates that UFOs may be projections of higher beings who can materialize and dematerialize at will.

Vallee’s hypothesis is based on his extensive analysis of UFO sightings, abductions, and physical traces. He has found that UFOs exhibit patterns of behavior that are consistent with a form of intelligence and communication, but not necessarily with a physical reality. He has also noted that UFOs often appear in connection with symbolic events, such as religious visions, wars, psychic phenomena, and occult rituals.

For example, he cites the case of Fatima, Portugal, where in 1917 thousands of people witnessed a series of apparitions of the Virgin Mary and a spectacular display of lights in the sky. Vallee argues that this event was not a miracle, but a staged phenomenon orchestrated by an unknown intelligence to influence human beliefs.

Another example is the case of Rendlesham Forest, England, where in 1980 several military personnel encountered a triangular-shaped craft that landed in the woods. Vallee claims that this incident was not an alien visitation, but a manipulation of human perception by a non-human agency to test human reactions.

A third example is the case of Skinwalker Ranch, Utah, where in the 1990s a family experienced a series of bizarre phenomena, such as mutilated cattle, poltergeist activity, and sightings of various creatures and objects. Vallee suggests that this location was not a hotspot of paranormal activity, but a laboratory for an enigmatic force that experimented with human emotions and expectations.

Vallee argues that UFOs are part of a larger phenomenon that he calls “the control system”. He defines this as “a strange force that bends [human beings] in absurd ways, forcing them to play a role in a bizarre game of deception”.

He believes that this force is manipulating human perception and consciousness for some unknown purpose, and that it may have been doing so throughout history.

Why UFOs crashing

Jacques Vallee thinks that UFO crashes are not accidental events, but rather intentional occurrences that serve a specific purpose for the mysterious visitors.

Vallee begins by pointing out that the evidence for UFO crashes is very weak and often contradictory. He argues that most of the alleged crash sites have never been properly investigated or verified by independent experts, and that many of the witnesses and whistleblowers who claim to have seen or handled alien bodies or debris are unreliable or have ulterior motives.

He also notes that the physical characteristics of the supposed alien craft and materials are inconsistent and incompatible with the laws of physics and engineering. He suggests that these anomalies are not due to our lack of understanding, but rather to the deliberate manipulation of our perception by the UFO intelligence.

According to Vallee, the UFO intelligence is not interested in communicating with us directly, but rather in creating a complex and enigmatic scenario that challenges our assumptions and beliefs about reality.

He believes that the UFO crashes are part of this scenario, and that they are designed to elicit a variety of reactions from different groups of people, such as curiosity, fear, awe, skepticism, denial, or fascination. He says that these reactions are part of an ongoing experiment that the UFO intelligence is conducting on human consciousness and culture, and that they may have profound implications for our future evolution.

Ex-CIA officer on UFOs: There’s a whole other reality that surrounds us

Why UFOs and Contact Experiences Challenge the ET Hypothesis

Vallee concludes by stating that he does not know what the ultimate goal or motive of the UFO intelligence is, but that he is convinced that it is not hostile or benevolent, but rather indifferent to our welfare.

He warns that we should not fall into the trap of interpreting the UFO phenomenon in terms of our own expectations or desires, but rather remain open-minded and critical. Vallee also urges us to develop a new scientific paradigm that can account for the multidimensional nature of reality and the possibility of other forms of intelligence and consciousness beyond our own.

digitalscream · June 2023

@equalsql - So...basically, it's the "trickster god" explanation?

Mellish · June 2023

Hmm...heres where I am. I believe that advanced civilisations exist, simply because I can think of no reason why they shouldn't.

However, there is a world of difference between that and believing that they come here in UFOs. Come here for what? To fly around in our atmosphere, or land in UK forests to play games with the military? Travel a minimum of 4.2 light years to do *that*???

VimFuego · June 2023

Mellish said:

Hmm...heres where I am. I believe that advanced civilisations exist, simply because I can think of no reason why they shouldn't.

However, there is a world of difference between that and believing that they come here in UFOs. Come here for what? To fly around in our atmosphere, or land in UK forests to play games with the military? Travel a minimum of 4.2 light years to do *that*???

TBF, if I had the ability to fly half way across the galaxy in a heartbeat, then fo sho I'd use it to mess with some less advanced civilisation and mebbe do a bit of part time probin', just for shits and giggles.

Gandalph · June 2023

I would be more inclined to go with Vallee's idea as opposed to nuts and bolt crafts with aliens inside. I think there probably is (other) intelligent life out there but with the distances and time involved I'd say it's unlikely they're visiting us.

Mellish · June 2023

@VimFuego ; well possibly, but so far there's no undeniable evidence for UFOs. There's some eyewitness accounts, scorched areas where UFOs allegedly touched, and stories of Area 51. All that is fine but it isn't actual evidence.

I'd be happy to see it proved, nothing would please me more.

TTony · June 2023

digitalscream said:

@equalsql - So...basically, it's the "trickster god" explanation?

Slightly less dismissively ...

We (the human race) place great value on our scientific understanding, and the ability of our science to explain and/or prove (and/or disprove) any concept.

What if our science was half-complete (or not even that). Our use of scientific analysis has been great in helping us understand the things that we can see, touch and experience - much as sacrifices to this that or other deity helped civilisations in times past.

Suppose there's another level of knowledge - currently as "alien" to us as GCSE Physics would have been to the blood sacrificers.

I don't believe that the human race knows everything, nor even realises how much it doesn't know. If you accept that, then the possibility of the existence of other forms of intelligence but outside our comprehension, becomes less of a stretch.

TTony · June 2023

VimFuego said:

Mellish said:

Hmm...heres where I am. I believe that advanced civilisations exist, simply because I can think of no reason why they shouldn't.

However, there is a world of difference between that and believing that they come here in UFOs. Come here for what? To fly around in our atmosphere, or land in UK forests to play games with the military? Travel a minimum of 4.2 light years to do *that*???

TBF, if I had the ability to fly half way across the galaxy in a heartbeat, then fo sho I'd use it to mess with some less advanced civilisation and mebbe do a bit of part time probin', just for shits and giggles.

Just go out into your garden, find an ant's nest, and dig half of it up, or drop some nemotodes nearby, or put some traps between the nest and their food source, or (etc, etc).

goldtop · June 2023

The multi-dimension claims are as shonky as the faster-than-light travel stuff.

digitalscream · June 2023

TTony said:

digitalscream said:

@equalsql - So...basically, it's the "trickster god" explanation?

Slightly less dismissively ...

It wasn't meant dismissively

Shrews · June 2023

Aliens visiting our planet who've mastered light speed or even a speed we've yet to learn of may well just be explorers. Maybe there are thousands of different alien lifeforms out there. Maybe there are parts of the galaxy which is teeming with life and other parts where life is rare.

We explored our own planet and we've started to explore space. When we discover the key to light speed I think we would explore wouldn't we? But we would also keep a watching brief before making contact.

Contact would not be easy. The mixing of species could destroy both species. aybe there's a process to follow that ensures safety first before we can join the club.

There are many reasons why they might have travelled all this way, but the most likely is just inquisitive exploration, if we go by our own history

Barnezy · June 2023

It’s just a simulation guys, don’t panic and enjoy the game.

RocknRollDave · June 2023

darthed1981 said:

RocknRollDave said:

Thing is, I guess most of us are intrigued by the thought of receiving communications from alien species.
but, think about it: on our planet, we’re surrounded by millions of other species. How much meaningful communication have we received from any of those nevermind species from other planets?

Do you have pets?

I'm not being a dick BTW though apologise if it sounds that way - but I know EXACTLY what my Dog is trying to say to me most of the time, and he never says a word.

With people who spend a lot of time in the wild, they communicate with animals. They know when a Bear or Lion doesn't pose a threat, when it REALLY does, when to approach Elephants, when not to, because of communication.

For a sadder story, Whales are intelligent creatures as are Dolphins, and readily communicate with humans, I read a story that actually made me tear up a bit how small whales that we used to kill by the hundreds were friendly and playful when approached - we are fucking dicks, as a species, we really fucking are - sometimes at least.

I know what you’re saying, but this isn’t what people are hoping for when they think of aliens contacting us.

equalsql · July 2023

This just surfaced on reddit and is pretty compelling.
If the author is a LARP then they are beyond extremely good as their knowledge of molecular biology is, apparently, incredibly high.

https://old.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/14rp7w9/from_the_late_2000s_to_the_mid2010s_i_worked_as_a/

digitalscream · July 2023

equalsql said:

This just surfaced on reddit and is pretty compelling.
If the author is a LARP then they are beyond extremely good as their knowledge of molecular biology is, apparently, incredibly high.

https://old.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/14rp7w9/from_the_late_2000s_to_the_mid2010s_i_worked_as_a/

Read the top comment - even the r/aliens moderators didn't believe them!

equalsql · July 2023

Worth checking down thru the article. Some very experienced people in the field of biological medicine have commented on just how knowledgeable the op is. I certainly wouldn't dismiss this out of hand cos of a mod's opinion.

digitalscream · July 2023

equalsql said:

Worth checking down thru the article. Some very experienced people in the field of biological medicine have commented on just how knowledgeable the op is. I certainly wouldn't dismiss this out of hand cos of a mod's opinion.

Plenty of knowledgeable people have written fiction in the past. What's more likely - that the governments of the world have managed to keep all of this hush-hush with not a single piece of actual evidence leaking out, or that a biologist was chuckling with his mates about fucking with a bunch of conspiracy theorists?

My point, though, was that his story didn't even meet the already-very-low standards of proof and verification required by people who run a conspiracy theory subreddit. "It sounds plausible and none of the words are particularly out of place" isn't really enough.

Mellish · July 2023

This always comes up and, like members who bring it back, I'd love us to be visited by advanced extraterrestrials.

But the closest they could be is 4.2 light years. Do you know how long it would take us to make that journey?
OK, let's suppose they've figured out travelling at the speed of light. You're still talking about a journey taking over 4.2 years. And for what? This is the bit I don't get. It makes as much sense as catching a plane to Australia just to look in a shop window, buy nothing, speak to no-one and fly home.

Stratavarious · July 2023

equalsql said:

This just surfaced on reddit and is pretty compelling.
If the author is a LARP then they are beyond extremely good as their knowledge of molecular biology is, apparently, incredibly high.

https://old.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/14rp7w9/from_the_late_2000s_to_the_mid2010s_i_worked_as_a/

LOL.. LARP.. live action role playing? My daughter does that.. well into it. Lots of smart people having fun.

My daughter is a genetics PhD.. this exercises general genetics stuff we hear over dinner.

It is 1st year graduate study book material and reads like a bit of fiction. Curious that the mitochondria and the symbiosis were only briefly mentioned in the research timeline presented given the huge significance they have in cellular / eukaryotic evolution. Surely any study on chimeric origins would have looked at that first and if it was ancient or recent. It’s the basic energy system of cells.

Suspect it’s a bit of fun by a student, possibly a genetics / cellular biology masters to troll the conspiracy theorists or might be testing a script for a video game too.

It’s on Reddit FFS.

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INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS SAY U.S. HAS RETRIEVED CRAFT OF NON-HUMAN ORIGIN

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