The Football Thread.

tony99 · January 2023

axisus said:

HUGE match today for Man U/Man City. Could be season defining for both.

City win and they are still in the title chase
Utd win and it looks like they really are back after a decade of poor managers

Draw probably hurts City more.

Watching this one by default (in mum's house and she loves footy)

Cagey game so far

mikeyrob73 · January 2023

Casemiro and Fred both doing a good job of stopping City playing.

DrCornelius · January 2023

mikeyrob73 said:

Casemiro and Fred both doing a good job of stopping City playing.

Fred is underrated imho, Casemiro is fantastic and rightly recognised as such

thecolourbox · January 2023

Just got to the BBC sport feed in time to experience a mini roller coaster of emotion - firstly dismay that Greasy scored and City were winning, then to see an equaliser was disallowed, and then given again! I don't really care about that end of the table as my team will never be up there but I do enjoy a bit of drama. On the other hand I don't like seeing Greasy score, so maybe I do care

menamestom · January 2023

Crazy goal from Fernandes. Lot’s of debate about Rashford being offside but by the letter of the law he wasn’t.

9 in a row for Rashford.

City had the possession but only one shot on target. Haaland was very quiet, not often you can say that.

I thought this was a bit like the Arsenal game, where we were only the better team in chances in goals rather than overall play.

Looking forward to Arsenal now, although I think that will be a harder game.

thecolourbox · January 2023

Oh wow just seen the final score as well! What a result

guitars4you · January 2023

menamestom said:

Crazy goal from Fernandes. Lot’s of debate about Rashford being offside but by the letter of the law he wasn’t.

9 in a row for Rashford.

City had the possession but only one shot on target. Haaland was very quiet, not often you can say that.

I thought this was a bit like the Arsenal game, where we were only the better team in chances in goals rather than overall play.

Looking forward to Arsenal now, although I think that will be a harder game.

Listening to the pundit ref on BT (can't recall who it was) he said he did not touch the ball so by the letter of the law he wasn't offside - But I bet when they created this 'rule' they did not envisage that 'not interfering' with play doesn't mean you can be hovering over the ball and within 2 foot of it - City should play to the whistle, so assuming the ref did not whistle, but it looked like a couple of players did back off 'expecting an 'off side' free kick

1st half Man U had the better chances - For 30 mins in the 2nd half it looked like City were trying to wind it up a notch - But other than the goal they created little and appear to be 'off colour' at the moment - Certainly a more resolute performance from Man U

menamestom · January 2023

guitars4you said:

menamestom said:

Crazy goal from Fernandes. Lot’s of debate about Rashford being offside but by the letter of the law he wasn’t.

9 in a row for Rashford.

City had the possession but only one shot on target. Haaland was very quiet, not often you can say that.

I thought this was a bit like the Arsenal game, where we were only the better team in chances in goals rather than overall play.

Looking forward to Arsenal now, although I think that will be a harder game.

Listening to the pundit ref on BT (can't recall who it was) he said he did not touch the ball so by the letter of the law he wasn't offside - But I bet when they created this 'rule' they did not envisage that 'not interfering' with play doesn't mean you can be hovering over the ball and within 2 foot of it - City should play to the whistle, so assuming the ref did not whistle, but it looked like a couple of players did back off 'expecting an 'off side' free kick

It was definitely harsh on City. It was almost allowed because it was a loophole. I suppose you could say there was a bit of gamesmanship from Rashford. VAR looks for clear and obvious.
Did Rashford block line of sight, touch the ball, play it or affect the defenders or keeper in a clear and obvious way? Not really.
But without Rashford there carrying on forward Bruno does not score. Loophole - nobody likes them.

Lestratcaster · January 2023

Nice one Utd beating City as it helps us keep our lead to 5 points at the top (could be 8 if we beat Tottenham tomorrow).

Big game in the NLD, hopefully we come up with the goods. Don't think we've won away since 2014. But we look good and have Smith Rowe back in the team now. Not sure about signing this Mudryk guy. Never seen him play before.

axisus · January 2023

As a Man U fan, that first goal was a totally embarrassing decision, but I’m happy to take it, having felt robbed plenty of times in the past!

I cannot believe how poor Liverpool are this season! Where has that come from? On a slightly less crazy level also Chelsea and West Ham. Lampard, Moyes and Potter all set for the chop, but I’d say all three clubs have problems bigger than the manager.

Springywheel · January 2023

axisus said:

As a Man U fan, that first goal was a totally embarrassing decision, but I’m happy to take it, having felt robbed plenty of times in the past!

I cannot believe how poor Liverpool are this season! Where has that come from? On a slightly less crazy level also Chelsea and West Ham. Lampard, Moyes and Potter all set for the chop, but I’d say all three clubs have problems bigger than the manager.

Re; Liverpool - This is why I feel they've declined lately...

Lack of foresight from the title winning season - owners should have splashed the cash and built from a position of strength rather than sell to buy. The players have hardly had any competition for their place in the team and were eventually driven to the ground playing a highly intense style of football with minimal rest. Particularly after the end of last season where they missed out on the CL and PL by a whisker. As we saw with Tottenham under poch that leads to a particularly bad hangover. As klopp mentioned in the presser, to go from that to ending up with nothing (other than an fa cup) is a real downer. And then to have to follow that up with a poorly scheduled preseason tour of Asia...

A poor transfer policy has seen an over reliance on players like Eliott, carvallio, Chamberlain, Keita etc. who are not good enough with the latter two overstaying their welcome. The midfield is getting a bit long in the tooth and no longer able to provide adequate protection for the back four, who are also now more exposed and prone to error.

Mane leaving has also had a negative impact - should have given him the contract he deserved. Injuries to Diaz and Jota haven't helped, and it looked like van dyke was playing with one for most of the season before his recent lay off.

I think the core of a new team is still there but they'll need to replicate what they did in 2018 with Alison and van dyke in signing two or three quality players to resolve the glaring weaknesses.

That team wasn't particularly great either but just two world class signings (funded by the coutinho money) transformed the team and signalled the start of a period in which they won the pl, cl and fa cup. Makes you wonder how much more successful they'd have been with man United's or city's funds, without having to sell to buy.

RaymondLin · January 2023

Liverpool's midfield IMO is their main problem.

Henderson isn't full on for 90mins like he was before. He doesn't have someone like Bellingham that can take some of the weight from pressing and running. Elliot is not someone who can do that job. Thiago can do a pass but he too isn't someone who can protect the back 4. Keita just doesn't play or cut it now. The midfield basically is too soft and gets overun by a lot of the teams.

Also, they rely a lot on their wing backs and when they are not on song, Liverpool struggles, and they have been off far too often this season. I think they need 2 new full backs, one on each side, just to give Trent and Roberton some competition. I also think their front attacking players just don't have the synergy as Mane and Firmino. Nunes, Jota, Gakpo and Dias just doesn't have the time together to click yet. They are clearly in a transition period.

I think they also need another center half, but mainly i think they need 2 more defensive midfielders, rather than getting Gakpo.

mikeyrob73 · January 2023

Watching Liverpool this season their midfield is pedestrian, very slow on the transition
they needed a more dynamic midfielder signing.

Also Mane is a bigger loss than they might care to admit, he harassed defenders into mistakes , they don’t seem to have that, Nunes is a totally different player

RobDavies · January 2023

menamestom said:

Haaland was very quiet, not often you can say that.

You can say it every game since the World Cup. He’s been hopeless.

sev112 · January 2023

(One) Liverpool’s issue is an over-reliance on James Milner and not replacing like for like, attitude, experience etc. it’s amazing what that guy has done over the years, most of it unheralded, also at City and before then even

guitars4you · January 2023

A lot of controversy regarding that goal and in some ways that takes the shine of the Man U win - City did not loose that game because of that goal alone - They lost because Man U by and large created a tough zone for City to operate in - Haaland had one 1/2 chance throughout the match - KDB had little influence - Foden was way of key and only Jack 'twat head' had any influence on the game when he came on - Man U did a good number on City and credit to Ten Hag for creating the game plan and mind set - Man U were more proactive in the first half with a few good chances, largely on the break - But were less proactive in the 2nd half until that goal

Credit to Ten Hag for his comments about the goal and accepting he'd be pee'd off if it had have happened at the other end

A City below par, a poor LFC, a resurgent Man U and Newcastle and indeed Arsenal and it is making the PL more enjoyable, less of a 1 or 2 horse race and that is good - Far more to play for be it the title or CL positions

guitars4you · January 2023

axisus said:

As a Man U fan, that first goal was a totally embarrassing decision, but I’m happy to take it, having felt robbed plenty of times in the past!

I cannot believe how poor Liverpool are this season! Where has that come from? On a slightly less crazy level also Chelsea and West Ham. Lampard, Moyes and Potter all set for the chop, but I’d say all three clubs have problems bigger than the manager.

I'm not so sure about Potter and Chelsea - It would not surprise me to see him given time to build a side and more of a clear out of over paid excess stock etc - They can't score, they don't have any decent strikers and the big error was losing Rudiger at the end of last season (probably the best PL defender outside VVD)

TeleMaster · January 2023

Amazingly weird offside goal.

Moyes, how is he still in a job?

bertie · January 2023

menamestom said:

Crazy goal from Fernandes. Lot’s of debate about Rashford being offside but by the letter of the law he wasn’t.

but wasnt he clearly "interfering with play" causing distraction to defending team and impact on likely outcome ? (or something like that) didnt that used to be the law ? (serious question from an egg-chaser)

thecolourbox · January 2023

It depends on the definition of "interfering with play". To a human, he was "interfering with play", but if the rules say "interfering with play" only means touching the ball, blocking view of the ball, or stopping the defender from playing the ball, then according to those three things it wasn't technically "interfering with play" and therefore not offside

menamestom · January 2023

bertie said:

menamestom said:

Crazy goal from Fernandes. Lot’s of debate about Rashford being offside but by the letter of the law he wasn’t.

but wasnt he clearly "interfering with play" causing distraction to defending team and impact on likely outcome ? (or something like that) didnt that used to be the law ? (serious question from an egg-chaser)

It’s a funny one. The defenders maintained the same line so nothing became ‘clear and obvious’. Not arguing for the decision, just thinking how VAR would have seen it.

guitars4you said:

A lot of controversy regarding that goal and in some ways that takes the shine of the Man U win - City did not loose that game because of that goal alone - They lost because Man U by and large created a tough zone for City to operate in - Haaland had one 1/2 chance throughout the match - KDB had little influence - Foden was way of key and only Jack 'twat head' had any influence on the game when he came on - Man U did a good number on City and credit to Ten Hag for creating the game plan and mind set - Man U were more proactive in the first half with a few good chances, largely on the break - But were less proactive in the 2nd half until that goal

The thing is Haaland was quiet. Partly because of ETH’s tactics but more so the fact his tram mates didn’t pass to him at the right moment. Always taking too many touches, missing his runs, not being direct enough. Exactly the opposite to United. They need to change the way they play with him in some games. You have to question Pep’s tactics occationally.

TeleMaster · January 2023

I think that by the letter of the law and the interpretation of 'interfering with play' he may not have been, but in reality it obviously was.

I imagine this is going to be abused a bit now, and the law will change soon.

axisus · January 2023

Funny old game. I thought that City would be totally unstoppable with Haarland. It's not the case. They had something like 70% possession against Man U, but no end product. Too much passing! I agree with the Beeb analysis where they said that he sometimes needs the ball lumped up to him! Man City are definitely off the boil, that's not to say they won't win the title though ...

mrkb · January 2023

Weird that the Ukrainian Mudryk would go to the club whose recent history is based on Russian oligarch bankrolling. Shows that money talks over principles in most cases.

Lestratcaster · January 2023

I ain't bothered about missing out on Mudryk. £62m for an unproven international isn't really a big issue and if he really did want to join Chelsea over us then good luck to him.

Looking forward to the NLD later though, a chance to go 8 points clear.

bertie · January 2023

Lestratcaster said:

. £62 for an unproven international isn't really a big issue

bloody cheap tho

guitars4you · January 2023

TeleMaster said:

I think that by the letter of the law and the interpretation of 'interfering with play' he may not have been, but in reality it obviously was.

I imagine this is going to be abused a bit now, and the law will change soon.

I think the fact that the linesman flagged, meant certain City players 'backed' off' - The pass was undoubtedly for Rashford not Bruno - If Edison had have thought that pass was for Bruno and the flag had not have gone up, he'd have claimed it easily - I agree the rule will be updated and so it should

TeleMaster · January 2023

Well I've had a look at the rules now and I don't see how he wasn't offside.

On page 93, IFAB offside rule 11.2

https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/offside/#offside-position

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:

Or clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent;

Or making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball"

Rashford was clearly attempting to play the ball and impacted the City players ability to play the ball by his proximity to the ball and his actions. Fernandes picked the ball up but that doesn't negate the build up play.

Definitely offside. They got it wrong and the goal shouldn't have stood.

axisus · January 2023

TeleMaster said:

Well I've had a look at the rules now and I don't see how he wasn't offside.

On page 93, IFAB offside rule 11.2

https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/offside/#offside-position

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:

Or clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent;
Or making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball"

Rashford was clearly attempting to play the ball and impacted the City players ability to play the ball by his proximity to the ball and his actions. Fernandes picked the ball up but that doesn't negate the build up play.

Definitely offside. They got it wrong and the goal shouldn't have stood.

You think you speak with authority, but some pundits/ex footballers have defended the decision!

Teetonetal · January 2023

mrkb said:

Weird that the Ukrainian Mudryk would go to the club whose recent history is based on Russian oligarch bankrolling. Shows that money talks over principles in most cases.

Except its no longer owned by said Russian oligarch, so pretty irrelevant.

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