The Football Thread.

TeleMaster · October 2023

RaymondLin said:

I don’t think Spurs will offer a replay for a mistake made by a 3rd party though.

That Arsenal precedent is a bit like Leeds (Bielsa) ordered his players to let the opposition score after they scored themselves from a throw in when the etiquette is to give the ball back.

Of course. I don't think anyone really thinks that a replay is going to happen. It just all seems so unfair and people want a fair resolution.

MagicPigDetective · October 2023

C’mon. That’s a tiny survey. Most Liverpool fans aren’t seriously asking or expecting a replay, which shouldn’t and will not happen. I know how much some of you dislike LFC and their fans, that’s football, but it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest this. The club has not asked for a replay. Let’s just make sure it results in changes so such a mistake doesn’t happen again, you’d think tribal rivalries could be put to one side (no chance) to support that before it happens to your club (it may already have of course).

TeleMaster · October 2023

MagicPigDetective said:

C’mon. That’s a tiny survey. Most Liverpool fans aren’t seriously asking or expecting a replay, which shouldn’t and will not happen. I know how much some of you dislike LFC and their fans, that’s football, but it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest this. The club has not asked for a replay. Let’s just make sure it results in changes so such a mistake doesn’t happen again, you’d think tribal rivalries could be put to one side (no chance) to support that before it happens to your club (it may already have of course).

Not me. Liverpool is like my spiritual home. My brother lives there, I'm always up there.

tony99 · October 2023

TeleMaster said:

RaymondLin said:

I don’t think Spurs will offer a replay for a mistake made by a 3rd party though.

That Arsenal precedent is a bit like Leeds (Bielsa) ordered his players to let the opposition score after they scored themselves from a throw in when the etiquette is to give the ball back.

Of course. I don't think anyone really thinks that a replay is going to happen. It just all seems so unfair and people want a fair resolution.

Wouldn't that involve resolving all other bad VAR decisions / significant errors first? This can't be the only one that is unfair.

It'd be incredibly unfair if they only resolved the Spurs v Lpool one.

tony99 · October 2023

Plenty to work through there:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-var-liverpool-apology-diaz-offside-b2422223.html

TeleMaster · October 2023

tony99 said:

TeleMaster said:

RaymondLin said:

I don’t think Spurs will offer a replay for a mistake made by a 3rd party though.

That Arsenal precedent is a bit like Leeds (Bielsa) ordered his players to let the opposition score after they scored themselves from a throw in when the etiquette is to give the ball back.

Of course. I don't think anyone really thinks that a replay is going to happen. It just all seems so unfair and people want a fair resolution.

Wouldn't that involve resolving all other bad VAR decisions / significant errors first? This can't be the only one that is unfair.

It'd be incredibly unfair if they only resolved the Spurs v Lpool one.

This is probably just the tipping point because it was so glaringly bad. And Liverpool are quite vocal too.

Rocker · October 2023

The guy made a mistake so simply get on with it. Why all the moaning?

tony99 · October 2023

Rocker said:

The guy made a mistake so simply get on with it. Why all the moaning?

Because it's liverpool.

Teetonetal · October 2023

MagicPigDetective said:

C’mon. That’s a tiny survey. Most Liverpool fans aren’t seriously asking or expecting a replay, which shouldn’t and will not happen. I know how much some of you dislike LFC and their fans, that’s football, but it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest this. The club has not asked for a replay. Let’s just make sure it results in changes so such a mistake doesn’t happen again, you’d think tribal rivalries could be put to one side (no chance) to support that before it happens to your club (it may already have of course).

Spot on.

There should be no move to alter in game descions, its a part of all sports and the fallout will be huge if it happens.

Sporting controversy is part of the fun.

Much better in my mind to just get rid of VAR.

tony99 · October 2023

Holy shit they've released an audio transcript now!! Unreal.

It's getting like who shot JFK

TTony · October 2023

tony99 said:

It's getting like who shot JFK

so his name really is Jurgen F*cking Klopp?

RaymondLin · October 2023

Listened to the audio, there are a few things that is telling.

The commentator guy seems to be the only one who knows what’s going on.

The linesman called Offside…but VAR didn’t hear it.

(they also didn’t see Diaz stopped celebrating as a massive hint to the on field decision

Because of this they check the goal was “Good” rather than if it was an offside call.

The did draw the line but some reason didn’t “finish” it and then put it up on the screen like the others and went straight to “check complete”.

Then commentator guy was the first one to realised again what had happened after that too.

it were too many errors in the 20seconds. The first one being nobody (the ref) said on the radio what the whistle went for (even though the linesman did called it offside), and then nobody (VAR) said on the radio what they were checking for (for or against the goal). The ref assumed VAR was checking for offside and VAR assumed the ref gave the goal. And then the check was finished, VAR didn’t say what they finished checking.

victorludorum · October 2023

RaymondLin said:

Listened to the audio, there are a few things that is telling.

The commentator guy seems to be the only one who knows what’s going on.

The linesman called Offside…but VAR didn’t hear it.

(they also didn’t see Diaz stopped celebrating as a massive hint to the on field decision

Because of this they check the goal was “Good” rather than if it was an offside call.

The did draw the line but some reason didn’t “finish” it and then put it up on the screen like the others and went straight to “check complete”.

Then commentator guy was the first one to realised again what had happened after that too.

it were too many errors in the 20seconds. The first one being nobody (the ref) said on the radio what the whistle went for (even though the linesman did called it offside), and then nobody (VAR) said on the radio what they were checking for (for or against the goal). The ref assumed VAR was checking for offside and VAR assumed the ref gave the goal. And then the check was finished, VAR didn’t say what they finished checking.

Didn't we know all this already?

TeleMaster · October 2023

There's too many cooks isn't there.

Deadman · October 2023

Sheff Wed really need a win tonight, I can’t believe they’re rooted to the bottom of the Championship. This Chansiri/Xisco partnership surely can’t continue at this rate.

guitars4you · October 2023

victorludorum said:

RaymondLin said:

Listened to the audio, there are a few things that is telling.

The commentator guy seems to be the only one who knows what’s going on.

The linesman called Offside…but VAR didn’t hear it.

(they also didn’t see Diaz stopped celebrating as a massive hint to the on field decision

Because of this they check the goal was “Good” rather than if it was an offside call.

The did draw the line but some reason didn’t “finish” it and then put it up on the screen like the others and went straight to “check complete”.

Then commentator guy was the first one to realised again what had happened after that too.

it were too many errors in the 20seconds. The first one being nobody (the ref) said on the radio what the whistle went for (even though the linesman did called it offside), and then nobody (VAR) said on the radio what they were checking for (for or against the goal). The ref assumed VAR was checking for offside and VAR assumed the ref gave the goal. And then the check was finished, VAR didn’t say what they finished checking.

Didn't we know all this already?

Yes, most of this was out Sunday night and certainly by Mon and Sky on MNF

The issue wasn't that VAR was incapable of doing the actual job, it was a crazy lack of communication - As I mentioned this morning, it was effectively saying 'check complete' - But lack of communication about what they are actually checking - Then once var realised there was an error, after the game restarted, they for some reason could/did not communicate such an issue- apparently within 7 seconds of the restart var realised the error

In Cricket and Rugby the TMO/3rd Umpire actually speak to the on pitch official and discuss the situation and both are aware of what is been discussed - The simple thing in football is a) a line of communication between the ref and var and b) the ref goes to his screen to see the replay at the same time as var are looking at it and both parties talk through it - Simple eh ???? - Better still if it was shown on the big screen in the crowd so the paying customers are aware of what is going on - They appear to be scarred of actually doing this , as fear of stoking up a bad atmosphere and potential crowd trouble

cruxiform · October 2023

Let’s be brutally honest here. If Liverpool had won this game this wouldn’t have even been news.

guitars4you · October 2023

Apparently and I quote

Could they have stopped the match when the ball was out for a throw in? Could they have said 'we have got this wrong, we need to go back and give the goal'?

Under the laws, no.

Deadman · October 2023

No games in the National League North tonight so I’ve been watching the 2nd tier.

Commanding lead by Ipswich now. I bet Hull fans were expecting a little more than that tonight. And I wouldn’t have put money on Middlesbrough tonight against Cardiff either. Quite pleased for Carrick.

League one worthy mention too! Barnsley. Bang, bang, bang, bang. Cambridge had plenty of shots on target but nothing doing. Extremely strong away performance from the Tykes. Well worth the petrol money for travelling fans.

Sheff Wed though. Jesus. Xisco future in further question tonight. Nice night for The Baggies though.

In other news, still very early days but Oxford United fans daring to dream?

TTony · October 2023

Apparently Galatasary fans will be starting a petition to have their game against ManU replayed.

No problems with any decisions, they just want to see their team beat ManU again.

DesVegas · October 2023

Wow!

Lestratcaster · October 2023

Have to question why we gave Nelson a new contract but choose not to use him in rotation with Saka? To go off after 33 minutes last night with a knock or a recurrence of injury shows how much he needs a rest. We could have started Nelson.

Raya's misplaced kick led to the goal so questions will be asked who starts vs City on Sunday.

victorludorum · October 2023

Klopp openly calling for a replay of the game. What a clown.

Longtallronnie · October 2023

No he isn’t. I watched the whole press conference, he gave his opinion that would be a fair resolution but doesn’t think that would happen. He’s not calling for anything, in fact in the same PF he stressed how important it was to not go after the individuals that made the mistakes. He’s actually been pretty reasonable about the whole thing but haters love to jump on him any given chance.

tony99 · October 2023

Longtallronnie said:

No he isn’t. I watched the whole press conference, he gave his opinion that would be a fair resolution but doesn’t think that would happen. He’s not calling for anything, in fact in the same PF he stressed how important it was to not go after the individuals that made the mistakes. He’s actually been pretty reasonable about the whole thing but haters love to jump on him any given chance.

It wouldn't be a fair resolution though, as it'd be unfair on every other team who have had a bad decision go against them and didn't get a replay, or even the same bizarre levels of medis coverage.

TTony · October 2023

Longtallronnie said:

He’s actually been pretty reasonable about the whole thing but haters love to jump on him any given chance.

Remarkably so.

It doesn't help that the press jump on one comment (ie him saying he'd like a replay) without also reporting that he then says it's unlikely.

I listened to the audio released too. What a bunch of amateurs. There's no clarity of what they're checking, then a bunch of different voices talking over each other, and they're all "mates".

That needs some attention and a far more professional attitude to the process.

Longtallronnie · October 2023

tony99 said:

Longtallronnie said:

No he isn’t. I watched the whole press conference, he gave his opinion that would be a fair resolution but doesn’t think that would happen. He’s not calling for anything, in fact in the same PF he stressed how important it was to not go after the individuals that made the mistakes. He’s actually been pretty reasonable about the whole thing but haters love to jump on him any given chance.

It wouldn't be a fair resolution though, as it'd be unfair on every other team who have had a bad decision go against them and didn't get a replay, or even the same bizarre levels of medis coverage.

It’s getting a lot of coverage because it’s the first time VAR have made a mistake in this manner. There’s been plenty of debatable decisions made, harsh red cards, penalties etc where there’s a certain amount of interpretation with different opinions but this level of mistake is unprecedented.

None of which is actually Klopp or LFC’s fault.

I see Simon Jordan has been peddling the “victim culture” of Liverpool fans, that bloke’s a proper tw@t.

Personally, I don’t want a replay or any retrospective action. It’s done, move on. Hopefully mechanisms will be put in place to ensure it doesn’t happen again.

tony99 · October 2023

Longtallronnie said:

tony99 said:

Longtallronnie said:

No he isn’t. I watched the whole press conference, he gave his opinion that would be a fair resolution but doesn’t think that would happen. He’s not calling for anything, in fact in the same PF he stressed how important it was to not go after the individuals that made the mistakes. He’s actually been pretty reasonable about the whole thing but haters love to jump on him any given chance.

It wouldn't be a fair resolution though, as it'd be unfair on every other team who have had a bad decision go against them and didn't get a replay, or even the same bizarre levels of medis coverage.

It’s getting a lot of coverage because it’s the first time VAR have made a mistake in this manner. There’s been plenty of debatable decisions made, harsh red cards, penalties etc where there’s a certain amount of interpretation with different opinions but this level of mistake is unprecedented.
None of which is actually Klopp or LFC’s fault.

I see Simon Jordan has been peddling the “victim culture” of Liverpool fans, that bloke’s a proper tw@t.

Personally, I don’t want a replay or any retrospective action. It’s done, move on. Hopefully mechanisms will be put in place to ensure it doesn’t happen again.

What mechanisms do you suggest?

Longtallronnie · October 2023

A standardised format of communication would be a start. Listening to the audio was absolute chaos that could’ve been avoided.

“Check complete” in isolation means nothing. It needs to be unambiguous. “On field decision is offside” for example, “ONside/OFFside confirmed”. That would’ve prevented this whole circus.

Following on from that, the rule that decisions can’t be changed once play has restarted need rethinking. If evolving tech is going to be used, it seems reasonable that some rules might have to evolve also.

thecolourbox · October 2023

Deadman said:
Sheff Wed though. Jesus. Xisco future in further question tonight. Nice night for The Baggies though.

I was at a gig last night so missed the match, my mom went instead and said it was one of the worst games of football she had watched for a good while. We may have won, but that sounds like the only positive. I think Saturdays result against Preston was a one off fluke.

Sheff Wed may be bottom now but so we were this time last season I think. still almost made playoffs once we got rid of Brucey. I bet they'd be further up with Big Dave still at the helm

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