Boxing thread

TeleMaster · April 2023

DrCornelius said:

Sorry to any AJ fans but he really is Bruno mkII .

He seems a decent enough bloke but if he was American I honestly don’t think he would have got a title shot or made anywhere near the money he had because he would have been found out domestically

I don't agree with that. I'm not a huge fan of AJ, and I agree that he has been overhyped and he's not the boxer he was but if you look at it objectively you have to say that he has always been a top prospect and delivered on that. AJ defended his title successfully multiple times and reclaimed his title when he lost it. He had more title defences than Fury has. He is also an Olympic gold medallist. That is a stellar career by any standard. Bruno had zero title defences and took four attempts to win it, whereas AJ won it on the first go and defended it multiple times so you can't compare the two.

If the flat footed, telegraphing Wilder can become World Champion by fighting in the US then AJ definitely could as he is a better boxer. He would have got that shot regardless of where he grew up because he was better than all in this era except for Fury and Usyk, although he has to prove he is still a challenger. He just comfortably beat an American who he would have fought and who, as you said would have found him out if he was American but didn't last night.

He won, comfortably. I don't know why people are treating it like a loss.

munckee · April 2023

I also think AJ has proved himself and is among the best in the division. The issue is his only hope against Fury and Wilder is to unleash the attacks and finishes we saw from him prior to Ruiz. He just has a mental block now which will prevent him from beating the best.

menamestom · April 2023

TeleMaster said:

DrCornelius said:

Sorry to any AJ fans but he really is Bruno mkII .

He seems a decent enough bloke but if he was American I honestly don’t think he would have got a title shot or made anywhere near the money he had because he would have been found out domestically

He won, comfortably. I don't know why people are treating it like a loss.

I think because people expected a reaction and a statement and his performance wasn’t really that. But he did what he had to do and a win is a win. Will be interesting to see where he goes next.

menamestom · April 2023

TeleMaster said:

menamestom said:
He looks like he’s lost what got him to the top in the first place. He boxes with fear now like he’s been rocked, but he must protect his fragile career, one more loss and he’s finished. I don’t think you can fight like that at the top.

Not sure where he goes from here, Wilder or Fury are the obvious options but I don’t see him winning those fights.

Everybody wants to see Fury vs Uysk but I think Fury vs Joshua could be a massive pay day and the fight that might now be pushed. Would be a massive upset if he beats Fury but there’s no way he will fighting like he has in the last few fights.

I wouldn't say Fury is an obvious option for AJ. Wilder yes, but Fury should only be fighting contenders and other champions to unify the division. AJ isn't near that level now and only should fight him if he becomes a contender. If they want to do a British extravaganza then that may make sense, but I don't think anyone seriously sees that fight as anything but a Fury win now so what's the point? But as we saw with the third Chisora fight, we know Fury will do the pointless for a payday.

Yeah it’s only from a massive payday perspective I think there might be interest from both sides, but Wilder makes more sense from a boxing perspective and would still be a massive fight.

DrCornelius · April 2023

TeleMaster said:

DrCornelius said:

Sorry to any AJ fans but he really is Bruno mkII .

He seems a decent enough bloke but if he was American I honestly don’t think he would have got a title shot or made anywhere near the money he had because he would have been found out domestically

I don't agree with that. I'm not a huge fan of AJ, and I agree that he has been overhyped and he's not the boxer he was but if you look at it objectively you have to say that he has always been a top prospect and delivered on that. AJ defended his title successfully multiple times and reclaimed his title when he lost it. He had more title defences than Fury has. He is also an Olympic gold medallist. That is a stellar career by any standard. Bruno had zero title defences and took four attempts to win it, whereas AJ won it on the first go and defended it multiple times so you can't compare the two.

If the flat footed, telegraphing Wilder can become World Champion by fighting in the US then AJ definitely could as he is a better boxer. He would have got that shot regardless of where he grew up because he was better than all in this era except for Fury and Usyk, although he has to prove he is still a challenger. He just comfortably beat an American who he would have fought and who, as you said would have found him out if he was American but didn't last night.

He won, comfortably. I don't know why people are treating it like a loss.

Wilder can’t box for toffee but has a huge right hand and is quick with it too. I honestly think he knocks AJ out very early

mikeyrob73 · April 2023

Agreed @DrCornelius ;
he looked cumbersome and flat footed last night. He is a big unit but doesn’t look like he has the killer instinct to go in and finish someone off now, maybe it’s a mental block

TeleMaster · April 2023

DrCornelius said:

TeleMaster said:

DrCornelius said:

Sorry to any AJ fans but he really is Bruno mkII .

He seems a decent enough bloke but if he was American I honestly don’t think he would have got a title shot or made anywhere near the money he had because he would have been found out domestically

I don't agree with that. I'm not a huge fan of AJ, and I agree that he has been overhyped and he's not the boxer he was but if you look at it objectively you have to say that he has always been a top prospect and delivered on that. AJ defended his title successfully multiple times and reclaimed his title when he lost it. He had more title defences than Fury has. He is also an Olympic gold medallist. That is a stellar career by any standard. Bruno had zero title defences and took four attempts to win it, whereas AJ won it on the first go and defended it multiple times so you can't compare the two.

If the flat footed, telegraphing Wilder can become World Champion by fighting in the US then AJ definitely could as he is a better boxer. He would have got that shot regardless of where he grew up because he was better than all in this era except for Fury and Usyk, although he has to prove he is still a challenger. He just comfortably beat an American who he would have fought and who, as you said would have found him out if he was American but didn't last night.

He won, comfortably. I don't know why people are treating it like a loss.

Wilder can’t box for toffee but has a huge right hand and is quick with it too. I honestly think he knocks AJ out very early

Hmm I don't think so. I think AJ is a smarter boxer. He done well against Usyk who is much superior, even rocking him. He lost but he done well and showed great heart. But that thunderous looming right hand that Wilder has is an absolute weapon and the neutralising factor in any match up. And because of that I think that Wilder is definitely the match up for AJ now, for both of them following the collapse of their careers and because it will be an interesting fight.

munckee · April 2023

I think AJ would have a good chance against Wilder, very real possibility of getting caught cold but AJ aside from 1st fight has not looked like getting ko’d but is gassy in hard fights and I. Don’t see Wilder as a pressure fighter.

I’ve watched last nights fight now and AJ looked better than I thought the press made him sound. Franklin just kept pushing his head into AJ to stop himself getting wiped out I thought.

musteatbrain · April 2023

AJ vs Wilder would be a very interesting fight for me. The loser would be on the career scrap heap.
Both have big shots but Wilder throws his with less hesitation. Neither has good footwork and neither is a great counter puncher. Wilder can take more punishment but conversely… he has taken more punishment. This is a fight I’d love to see as much as any of the others.

Lebarque · April 2023

AJ just looks like the tinman to me now. He's lost his hunger and bottle, on top of the glass chin he's always had. I just don't find him entertaining anymore. Lord knows how he's still managed to sell out the O2. He'd lose to Joyce, Wilder and Fury easily.

Did anyone see Wardley on the undercard? Exciting, hungry and intense. Will look out for him.

More importantly, I worry for AJ's mental health. The meltdown after the Usyk rematch and grabbing Franklin after the final bell. Bloke shouldn't box again IMO.

DefaultM · April 2023

Yeah I couldn’t believe that at the end. Franklin looked defeated, AJ sort of shoved him when he was already walking away? Why?

munckee · April 2023

There is immense pressure on AJ he is hanging onto the top table by a thread, if he goes to gung ho and gets knocked out its over but he doesn't want to be too dull either it seems to me. I think he is probably done at the top but if he can find a klitscho type performance again then who knows.

I think the division needs something like Fury vs Joshua and Usyk vs Wilder with the winners fighting for all the belts.

swiller · April 2023

I thought AJ completely controlled the fight and tested his chin well. Chalk and cheese to franklins whyte fight, where i had franklin pipping it. I hope usyk fights wilder and fury because that is the untold story of the heavyweight division. AJ deffo still top 3 imho.

TeleMaster · April 2023

swiller said:

I thought AJ completely controlled the fight and tested his chin well. Chalk and cheese to franklins whyte fight, where i had franklin pipping it. I hope usyk fights wilder and fury because that is the untold story of the heavyweight division. AJ deffo still top 3 imho.

Yea I think he's third in that list, but a distant third.

Lebarque · April 2023

You don't think the Juggernaut wipes the floor with AJ? Madness!

DrCornelius · April 2023

I love these sorts of debates - genuinely . I think right now Id go with the below . Obviously AJ has the firepower to be higher in the list if he takes more risks but based on his last few fights -

1 Fury
2 Usyk
3 Wilder
4 Andy Ruiz Jr
5 Joe Joyce
6 AJ

munckee · April 2023

DrCornelius said:

I love these sorts of debates - genuinely . I think right now Is go with the below . Obviously AJ has the firepower to be higher in the list if he takes more risks but based on his last few fights -

1 Fury
2 Usyk
3 Wilder
4 Andy Ruiz Jr
5 Joe Joyce
6 AJ

Fury/Usyk
AJ/Wilder
Joyce
Ruiz

for me.

swiller · April 2023

TeleMaster said:

swiller said:

I thought AJ completely controlled the fight and tested his chin well. Chalk and cheese to franklins whyte fight, where i had franklin pipping it. I hope usyk fights wilder and fury because that is the untold story of the heavyweight division. AJ deffo still top 3 imho.

Yea I think he's third in that list, but a distant third.

Talking of third.. have you seen the premiership table ?

TeleMaster · April 2023

swiller said:

TeleMaster said:

swiller said:

I thought AJ completely controlled the fight and tested his chin well. Chalk and cheese to franklins whyte fight, where i had franklin pipping it. I hope usyk fights wilder and fury because that is the untold story of the heavyweight division. AJ deffo still top 3 imho.

Yea I think he's third in that list, but a distant third.

Talking of third.. have you seen the premiership table ?

Long way to go mate. Long way to go.

usedtobe · April 2023

swiller said:

TeleMaster said:

swiller said:

I thought AJ completely controlled the fight and tested his chin well. Chalk and cheese to franklins whyte fight, where i had franklin pipping it. I hope usyk fights wilder and fury because that is the untold story of the heavyweight division. AJ deffo still top 3 imho.

Yea I think he's third in that list, but a distant third.

Talking of third.. have you seen the premiership table ?

No..

Tone71 · April 2023

So...after the shit show of the Fury circus and AJ not fighting until Dec? We have the juggernaut Joe Joyce tonight with what should be another cracking fight.

I really like Joe (because he's local) and find him a bit refreshing as all the hungrier fighters are, not sure about the Ricky Hatton style of fighting with your face but he does seem to take a hell of a shot and gives out plenty in return, his last fight against Parker was incredible and Zhilei Zhang is another lump who can throw.

Should be interesting and a good fight, who you got?

stevebrum · April 2023

Zhang did well against Hrgovic - probably should have won or at least got a draw but he was absolutely fucked in parts of the 12 rounder.

I think The Juggernaught will make shorter work of it and if he doesn’t it’ll be a very uncomfortable 36 mins for ‘Big Bang’.

munckee · April 2023

Having stopped both Dubois and Parker Joyce had to be among the most dangerous in the division I think. Outlasts as much as devastates but that’s dangerous in itself. Hopefully stoppage win then a fight with AJ/Fury/Usyk/Wilder (insert the name of top heavyweight who never fights anyone)

Tone71 · April 2023

Poor old Joe but using your face as a defence isn't the greatest tactic in heavyweight boxing!

DrCornelius · April 2023

Zhangs left hand was fantastic, if he can develop some stamina he could be a threat to anyone

richman6100 · April 2023

DrCornelius said:

Zhangs left hand was fantastic, if he can develop some stamina he could be a threat to anyone

Agreed. Joyce was his usual ponderous self and Zhang threw the more accurate punches, especially his left. I doubt that Zhang would have stopped Joyce by a 'proper' knockout - Joyce's ability to take a punch is exceptional, albeit worrying for his long-term health, and his engine is proven - but Zhang had too easy a target and closing Joyce's eye made that even simpler. It wasn't exactly a classic fight, but it did demonstrate how an equally big guy, especially a southpaw with a fast, accurate left, can undo a fairly limited Joyce. Had the damage to Joyce's eye not occurred, it could have gone the other way as Zhang tired though.

Joseph Parker is a more talented fighter than Joyce, but the Englishman just wore him down like a persistent robot. As he's done with other opponents. Tonight, he performed more like he did as an amateur somehow, much too static and predictable to compete at elite level.

I like Joyce, he's a nice bloke, but he's too easy to hit and tonight proved that he is human after all. I hope that he remains healthy and can work on slipping punches. That'll be key to his future. He has the power and the stamina, but he lacks fundamentals that would protect him.

menamestom · April 2023

Joyce looked too rigid. Zhang seemed to slip his shots with very slight movements whereas Joyce looked really static. Almost like AJ in the last few fights, no deftness or craft. Sort of keep it tight and see what happens.

Difficult to fight a southpaw, perhaps that threw him.

Perhaps Zhang would have tired but Joyce would have to have knocked him out, based on points scored by round 6.

DrCornelius · May 2023

Canelo seems to get power in every shot he throws , short, long, straight or hook. Must be horrible for Ryder . I can’t see him making a dent at this rate (round 9), I just hope he doesn’t get badly hurt

DrCornelius · May 2023

Bloody hell he’s got some balls

stevebrum · May 2023

Great effort, busted nose from the 2nd round, knocked down in the 5th and still giving Canelo something to think about until the final bell.

Ryder deserved his shot and hopefully gets a very decent payday.

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