The cricket thread

Gassage · December 2021

Don't worry about Burns. Anyone can get a first baller - it just looks worse because he moves around a lot. And actually, don't worry too much about getting rolled for 147- that was a seamer's paradise.

What is far more concerning is the absolute lack of tactical clarity leading up to the game- you turn up in thick humidity, with a wicket as green as a dutch weed shop, you leave out a man with 500 test wickets and bat first.

That is utterly unforgivable as those tactics are controllable and if executed properly, would not have led to the first innings failure.

guitars4you · December 2021

Gassage said:

Don't worry about Burns. Anyone can get a first baller - it just looks worse because he moves around a lot. And actually, don't worry too much about getting rolled for 147- that was a seamer's paradise.

What is far more concerning is the absolute lack of tactical clarity leading up to the game- you turn up in thick humidity, with a wicket as green as a dutch weed shop, you leave out a man with 500 test wickets and bat first.

That is utterly unforgivable as those tactics are controllable and if executed properly, would not have led to the first innings failure.

If you could bowl a better 1st ball of a series I'd like to see it - We have a bad record in recent years with the first ball in Oz

FastEddie · December 2021

Gassage said:

Don't worry about Burns. Anyone can get a first baller - it just looks worse because he moves around a lot. And actually, don't worry too much about getting rolled for 147- that was a seamer's paradise.

What is far more concerning is the absolute lack of tactical clarity leading up to the game- you turn up in thick humidity, with a wicket as green as a dutch weed shop, you leave out a man with 500 test wickets and bat first.

That is utterly unforgivable as those tactics are controllable and if executed properly, would not have led to the first innings failure.

It smacks of 'paralysis though analysis'.
The algorithm said 'bat'.
If Root was really strong and confident he would have picked Anderson and Broad and bowled.
Broad has the Aussie top 2 on toast!

Anderson needs to be bowled. At his age he needs to be kept moving. But that also forgets the skills he has when the ball is old and he can throttle back a few yards.

crunchman · December 2021

chris78 said:

I've only seen the highlights, but they looked undercooked to me (hardly surprising).
Burns's dismissal was a shocker, Malan shouldn't be playing at that and when the 2 best players get 0 & 5, you're in the brown stuff. Very odd not playing Broad on a green pitch, even if it's just to get in Warner's head

On recent evidence Woakes and Robinson are better than Broad is these days. Wood gives the pace option which would come in handy on day 3 or 4 when the pitch has flattened out. That's important because the Kookaburra ball goes soft so quickly, and stops swinging. With Stokes in the team it's definitely better to play a spinner than a 5th right arm seam bowler.

Broad also moves like a slug in the field. Given the weather, you could make an argument for Broad over Wood but, as far as I'm concerned, it was the right decision to leave Broad out.

JerkMoans · December 2021

chris78 · December 2021

crunchman said:

On recent evidence Woakes and Robinson are better than Broad is these days. Wood gives the pace option which would come in handy on day 3 or 4 when the pitch has flattened out. That's important because the Kookaburra ball goes soft so quickly, and stops swinging. With Stokes in the team it's definitely better to play a spinner than a 5th right arm seam bowler.

Broad also moves like a slug in the field. Given the weather, you could make an argument for Broad over Wood but, as far as I'm concerned, it was the right decision to leave Broad out.

At home, I’d agree. Woakes in oz though? He’s only effective when the ball swings. I think he’s one of the nicest guys in cricket, but if he averages under 40 in oz, I’ll be stunned

crunchman · December 2021

Woakes has improved as a bowler. He's averaging around 20 in his last 11 tests. Most of those were at home, but he's a much better bowler now than he was 5 years ago. Broad, on the other hand, is on the decline. He often struggles to get much above 80mph, which will make him pretty innocuous on typical Australian pitches. The weather conditions in this match so far aren't typical for Australia, and would suit Broad, but they suit Woakes as well.

When you add in batting and fielding, picking Woakes over Broad is a no-brainer. Given the weather, you can argue a case for playing Broad over Wood for this match, but with Woakes, Robinson, and Stokes in the team already, the extra variety that Wood brings is probably the right call.

Rich210 · December 2021

FastEddie said:

Gassage said:

Don't worry about Burns. Anyone can get a first baller - it just looks worse because he moves around a lot. And actually, don't worry too much about getting rolled for 147- that was a seamer's paradise.

What is far more concerning is the absolute lack of tactical clarity leading up to the game- you turn up in thick humidity, with a wicket as green as a dutch weed shop, you leave out a man with 500 test wickets and bat first.

That is utterly unforgivable as those tactics are controllable and if executed properly, would not have led to the first innings failure.

It smacks of 'paralysis though analysis'.
The algorithm said 'bat'.
If Root was really strong and confident he would have picked Anderson and Broad and bowled.
Broad has the Aussie top 2 on toast!

Anderson needs to be bowled. At his age he needs to be kept moving. But that also forgets the skills he has when the ball is old and he can throttle back a few yards.

Green top and muggy as F^*K and go to bat first?! Madness, pure Nasser Hussain captaincy there. These wickets always improve for day 2 and early 3 as the moisture comes out the green top and they loose a bit of zip and pop after a days play but they keep the integrity. I can see that wicket dying out a bit as the grass dies off. It was really strange they didn't put our seamers on even without Broad and Anderson. No aussie likes to walk out to a green top, it's like a phobia.

All of our bowlers are perfectly capable of doing the business - that of bowling a teasing length, working the angles and getting a smidge out of the ball.

UnclePsychosis · December 2021

(Genuine) question for the Englishmen among us, was that World Cup win worth the fifteen (ish?) years of test cricket competence that was sacrificed for it?

As someone who likes cricket but isn't from a test nation, I get really frustrated around Ashes time. Yes, it's exciting and all that but it's England v Australia, *again*---I'm getting fed up of the closed shop that is international cricket. Sadly whilst Cricket is run both for and by the big test nations its never going to change, and that's a shame.

crunchman · December 2021

UnclePsychosis said:

(Genuine) question for the Englishmen among us, was that World Cup win worth the fifteen (ish?) years of test cricket competence that was sacrificed for it?

I'd far rather win the Ashes than a pyjama cricket hackabout.

Gassage · December 2021

crunchman said:

Woakes has improved as a bowler. He's averaging around 20 in his last 11 tests. Most of those were at home, but he's a much better bowler now than he was 5 years ago. Broad, on the other hand, is on the decline. He often struggles to get much above 80mph, which will make him pretty innocuous on typical Australian pitches. The weather conditions in this match so far aren't typical for Australia, and would suit Broad, but they suit Woakes as well.

When you add in batting and fielding, picking Woakes over Broad is a no-brainer. Given the weather, you can argue a case for playing Broad over Wood for this match, but with Woakes, Robinson, and Stokes in the team already, the extra variety that Wood brings is probably the right call.

There's a reason why some are champions and why some are still able to rise to the big occasion. I don't care what stats or recent performances say, I'd rather have Broad's knowledge and experience, big game feel and also ability to bolw to lefties than I would others- I'd keep Woakes but Broad over Leach in those conditions? All day long. (cue leach taking 5 fer nothing tonight!)

guitars4you · December 2021

Well a credible fight back by our bowlers, but the damage has already been done - Head frustrating with his counter attack, but had nothing to loose - Sure it will be close to a 200 1st innings run lead by the end of the innings

Mellish · December 2021

The Aussies plan was to go after Leach, skip down the wicket, stop him finding a length and force seamer rotation on a very hot day. Travis Head's third fastest Ashes century of all time just rubbed salt in the wound. But, when you have a dreadful first innings, you sort of make your own rod.

Gassage · December 2021

@crunchman I rest my case re Leach!

Gassage · December 2021

Mellish said:

The Aussies plan was to go after Leach, skip down the wicket, stop him finding a length and force seamer rotation on a very hot day. Travis Head's third fastest Ashes century of all time just rubbed salt in the wound. But, when you have a dreadful first innings, you sort of make your own rod.

Possibly due to the fact Leach is utter shite.

guitars4you · December 2021

Gassage said:

Mellish said:

The Aussies plan was to go after Leach, skip down the wicket, stop him finding a length and force seamer rotation on a very hot day. Travis Head's third fastest Ashes century of all time just rubbed salt in the wound. But, when you have a dreadful first innings, you sort of make your own rod.

Possibly due to the fact Leach is utter shite.

Woakes/Robinson/Woods stats were not that bad today - Leach/Stokes both poor - You feel in part that Leach is playing as they are not sure if Stokes can bowl 15/20 overs a day - Yes Bess would probably be a more preferential option if going down the spinner route - But no Broad is baffling

Mellish · December 2021

@guitars4you ; it's bad team selection mate. Despite having had four years to get it right, they've messed it up. To be fair, beating the Aussies on *their* turf would be a tough ask but surely you'd think they wouldn't want to make it any tougher

Gassage · December 2021

Well, Silverwood’s post match was so defiant of reality and the truth that it was like the drowning man not only trying to clamber back on board his ship, but also to remain in full control of his fragile vessel despite the water already tickling his ankles.

The fact that his team currently resemble the closing hours of the Titanic’s maiden voyage has largely appeared to have escaped his attention.

Rich210 · December 2021

On a wicket like that I couldn't see anything to offer a spinner. A good surface covered by rolled dead grass is like ice. The only kinds of spinners that could even be remotely effective are those like Kumble that get the ball to dip in the air and essential don't aim to get much turn if any. Rashid would have been my pick. Alternatively someone that's more of an arm ball specialist, but even then it would probably fodder. They lost it with the toss as its a better wicket to bat on now and the aussies have the obvious advantage with a weakened bowling attack

scrumhalf · December 2021

I think the spinner will as there because of the risk of Stokes and Wood breaking down and Woakes and Robinson being left to carry the attack. By targeting Leach they put more pressure on the other bowlers. Clever and tactical batting.

Regardless of what Australia do and how their domestic season is structured, this is what happens when you fling resources at the one-day game and relegate the red-ball game to second best. The Ashes are too important.

crunchman · December 2021

Leach is still the best spinner we have though. It's a better balanced attack than an extra fast medium right armer. We wouldn't want to be bowling on days 4 and 5 without a spinner. It probably won't get to days 4 and 5 now, but that's down to the bad batting in the first innings.

Stuckfast · December 2021

I only saw the highlights, but from what I could see, all the seamers bowled well and would have had more wickets had it not been for bad luck, poor fielding and the Aussies judging their leaves a lot better than us. And although I'm lukewarm about Leach it didn't look as though he bowled a lot of bad balls. They just decided tactically to hit him out of the attack and there wasn't much in the pitch for him.

Really I don't think the problem here is that the Aussies scored 300+, it's that we only scored 147.

crunchman · December 2021

Stuckfast said:

I only saw the highlights, but from what I could see, all the seamers bowled well and would have had more wickets had it not been for bad luck, poor fielding and the Aussies judging their leaves a lot better than us. And although I'm lukewarm about Leach it didn't look as though he bowled a lot of bad balls. They just decided tactically to hit him out of the attack and there wasn't much in the pitch for him.

Really I don't think the problem here is that the Aussies scored 300+, it's that we only scored 147.

I watched the first hour or so before going to bed. Warner was really scratching around, and was very lucky to survive - not just the Stokes no ball - there were edges that didn't go to hand, and several play and misses. If we had got him early rather than let him get to 94, it could have been very different.

Labuschagne had a bit of luck as well. He edged one that fell in front of first slip. Normally the edges carry at the Gabba. As you said though, only having 147 on the board was the problem. There was absolutely no margin for error or bad luck.

guitars4you · December 2021

I see many comments about Test Cricket having to take 2nd fiddle to ODi and maybe merit in that

But NZ don't appear to have issues, with far less players to pick from and far less of a big structure to their domestic game - Plus the Aussies and India have far less of such issues to both TC and ODi than we do

But I do admit that I'm not sure what our best X1 is - What structure there is to a long term plan - Players come, go, dropped and last summer (and even previous winter) when we should have been trying to sort out the spinner option v India, we barely played anyone - So no effective plan - Can't see any logic in not playing Anderson and/or Broad - Yet Wood, Robinson, Wood did okay in their spells today

FastEddie · December 2021

Gassage said:

Well, Silverwood’s post match was so defiant of reality and the truth that it was like the drowning man not only trying to clamber back on board his ship, but also to remain in full control of his fragile vessel despite the water already tickling his ankles.
The fact that his team currently resemble the closing hours of the Titanic’s maiden voyage has largely appeared to have escaped his attention.

Before anyone asks, Essex don't want Silverwood back thanks. We're fine.
I do find his leadership puzzling. There seems to be a real lack of punch.

Mellish · December 2021

Our seamers did a decent job on the second day. That forced rotation by the Aussies, though, will mean they turn up for day three very sore indeed. Like that they will have to mop up the Aussie tail and try to get something good on the board. It won't be easy

crunchman · December 2021

Just need someone to make 235* like Cook did 11 years ago when we were 221 behind on the first innings.

Stuckfast · December 2021

Yes I remember the glorious feeling of waking up in the morning to discover that we were three hundred and something for no wickets overnight.

Rich210 · December 2021

The boys are doing good. Looks like a superb batting wicket. England have to bat for another day

guitars4you · December 2021

Just goes to show there is still some spunk in those Yorkshire balls of Malan and Root - Just a bit muddled in the head w other decisions

First 20 overs tomorrow will be key - 10 with the old ball, so a) both to stay in b) to both get the 100 - Then see off the new ball - So fingers crossed something to look forward tonight at miidnight

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