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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 10961
    So the Ashes squad has been announced....

    I am surprised Buttler is going he is obviously happy enough with the COVID regulations and allowances for family travel.

    Personally I would have picked Parkinson over Dom Bess and tried to find space for Saj Mahmood.

    Otherwise....it seems to be our strongest squad from those fit and available. 

    I think Australia are pretty shit anyway so we could be in for a competitive series, but their bowling attack is stronger than ours.

    Our strongest squad would contain Foakes.

    Would agree on Parkinson and Mahmood though.
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  • chris78chris78 Frets: 8492
    We’ve done it again. Going down under with a team full of fast medium right armers. How Overton got in is beyond me, but otherwise, to be fair to the selectors, we’ve picked the best available squad. 
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  • The injury Foakes suffered and the lack of cricket he's played counted against him. 

    I don't have any problem with Parkinson not being picked. Tossing a rookie legspinner out into the hardest tour for an overseas spinner is a hell of a risk. Mason Crane did it last time: hasn't played since. Scott Borthwick in the tour before that: hasn't played since. Simon Kerrigan against Australia at home: we know how that turned out. I'd like to see Parkinson on the tour to the West Indies in Q1 2022. 

    Mahmood would have been worth a punt. I imagine he will be with the Lions who are touring at the same time as the Test series and he'll be first name should injuries occur. 

    This notion of Australia being shit: pfffh. 

    In Warner, Labuschagne, and Smith, you have three players averaging 48 to 60. Tim Paine gets slated for his batting and averages the same as our keepers. Their pace attack is well ahead of ours and there's a few in the second string who might be bolters. Where Australia have a problem in a) an opener to go with Warner and b) one middle order batsman as they'll keep Cameron Green in there at 6. I think they'll keep on with Marcus Harris at the top hoping that his time playing county cricket gives him the boost that it gave to Labuschagne. Whether they'll give Matt Wade another chance... who knows. Will Pucovski hasn't played since his shoulder injury on debut in January against India so it might be too soon for him to come back. 



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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30192
    I don't get the Bess hate.

    It's a statistical fact he hold the record for the best bowling in test cricket by a spinner with a 'meet me at macdonalds' haircut.

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 10838
    Whowver they've picked, you can bet your cockbox one or two of them will have gone home before the fourth test. 
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 10961
    The injury Foakes suffered and the lack of cricket he's played counted against him. 

    I don't have any problem with Parkinson not being picked. Tossing a rookie legspinner out into the hardest tour for an overseas spinner is a hell of a risk. Mason Crane did it last time: hasn't played since. Scott Borthwick in the tour before that: hasn't played since. Simon Kerrigan against Australia at home: we know how that turned out. I'd like to see Parkinson on the tour to the West Indies in Q1 2022. 

    Mahmood would have been worth a punt. I imagine he will be with the Lions who are touring at the same time as the Test series and he'll be first name should injuries occur. 

    This notion of Australia being shit: pfffh. 

    In Warner, Labuschagne, and Smith, you have three players averaging 48 to 60. Tim Paine gets slated for his batting and averages the same as our keepers. Their pace attack is well ahead of ours and there's a few in the second string who might be bolters. Where Australia have a problem in a) an opener to go with Warner and b) one middle order batsman as they'll keep Cameron Green in there at 6. I think they'll keep on with Marcus Harris at the top hoping that his time playing county cricket gives him the boost that it gave to Labuschagne. Whether they'll give Matt Wade another chance... who knows. Will Pucovski hasn't played since his shoulder injury on debut in January against India so it might be too soon for him to come back. 

    It's possible that Warner is on the decline.  He's going to be 35 before the start of the series.  He's dependent on having a great eye, rather than a great technique.  His average in the IPL has slipped this year.

    Having said that, I can't see us competing unless Stokes decides his head is in the right place to come back.
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  • crunchman said:
    It's possible that Warner is on the decline.  He's going to be 35 before the start of the series.  He's dependent on having a great eye, rather than a great technique.  His average in the IPL has slipped this year.

    Having said that, I can't see us competing unless Stokes decides his head is in the right place to come back.
    Undoubtedly age is catching up with him but don't dismiss him on home soil. Over his whole career, (not including neutral venues): he averages 37 playing away. At home, 63.20. If you go from the start of 2017 to now, that becomes even more pronounced. 

    14 Tests away: 756 runs at 27 (2 tons). 
    13 Tests home: 1462 runs at 76.94 with five tons and a best of 335* against Pakistan. 

    He might struggle on English greentops but he's still mighty decent on Aussie decks. 



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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 10961
    Good news:


    Still underdogs, but it ought to make the series a lot more interesting.

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  • Interesting times for Yorkshire CCC....
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  • pedalopedalo Frets: 177
    edited November 2021
    It’s horrific. 
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  • pedalo said:
    It’s horrific. 

    I disagree.

    If it involved any other team then maybe, but it's the team who's captain/player told an opposing player 'to fuck off back to his own country' then was consequently promoted to Head Coach.

    Then after the inquiry, initially refused to acknowledge Rafiq had been racially abused but was instead a victim of 'inappropriate behaviour' then it goes on and on, and I'm sure there are many more incidents to come out.

    It'd be horrific if there was an element of surprise, but for the county of Yorkshire CCC it just seems to be day to day behaviour, calling a player a 'Paki' is just banter.

    Any other workplace in the UK, these incidents would be sackable offences, but not in God's County.

    The whole club is rotten to the core, I'd like to imagine the ECB will do something about it, but even to their own admissions they have fucked it up, a sign they weren't really taking it seriously.
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  • pedalopedalo Frets: 177
    edited November 2021
    I’m mortified by it all to be honest. 
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 21788
    edited November 2021


    The whole club is rotten to the core, I'd like to imagine the ECB will do something about it, but even to their own admissions they have fucked it up, a sign they weren't really taking it seriously.

    It'll be bloody interesting to see who steps forward to sponsor them in the future. 

    Everything that's happened doesn't surprise me. It's no different to what I saw in the youth cricket days. the dumb fuck sexism, the casual racism from some players. I toured Barbados 20+ years ago with a 2nd XI county/BUSA composite side. One guy there was too ready with the racist language. I gave him a warning twice to stop on different days. Third time it happened, he called our bus driver a stupid N word. He was three rows up in the bus from me. I got up, walked over, told him that I'd warned him, and decked him. Nobody said a word after that. Outside of my brother, he is still the only individual I've punched. It wasn't edifying, I felt horrible afterwards and took myself away from the team for 24 hours to contemplate whether I wanted to continue the tour, but in my mind it was the right thing to do. The sexist side: most of you know about the Alex Hepburn case at Worcester. I went to uni there and saw things involving folk who played at county level that were just hideous. 

    Shit. That's depressing me already. To think that it's still going on is even more depressing. So I want to put something positive up. Two years prior to the Barbados trip, I saw one of the best things I've ever seen on a cricket field. We were playing Oxfordshire and we'd lost early wickets chasing 260 odd. It got exciting, 50 needed with four wickets left from the last 10 overs. Our off spinner was batting well, very short chap, maybe 5ft 2". Oxford skipper brought his opening bowler back. he was quite a verbal bowler who'd already given a load of shit out. Lo and behold, he does it again to our offie, a lot of disabled comments and suggesting that his short stature was some kind of birth defect. His skipper warned him to stop or he'd be removed. Two overs later, more abuse continuing along the disabled lines. Skip not only took him out of the attack, he ordered him from the pitch to be replaced by the 12th man. We beat Oxfordshire and post-match we as a side all went up to their captain one by one to shake his hand. That's always stuck with me as one of the best "I will not compromise my principles" acts I've ever seen, that he compromised his own team's ability to win in order to not compromise his morals and ethics. Maybe that incident had an impact on me in Barbados two years later.  

    And maybe that is what we need here, leaders who are prepared to come and and say what is wrong and what is right, and for people who have fucked up to come out and say that they have fucked up. 





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  • That's a bit of a grim story Andy, but at least you finished on a positive note.
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  • More positive than the outlook for Yorkshire...





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  • More positive than the outlook for Yorkshire...


    Seems all the more bizarre they had a test match this summer, when the players were taking a knee against racism. 

    Considering Azeem Rafiq went to the ECB over a year ago not much was done until the report was leaked to a newspaper.

    There are some Yorkshire supporters here, I'd be intrigued to their thoughts. 
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  • More positive than the outlook for Yorkshire...


    It gets worse.

    Michael Vaughan is the next name to be involved.

    Allegedly looked at some of the Asian players and said 'there are too many of you lot'.
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  • sixstringsuppliessixstringsupplies Frets: 423
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    More positive than the outlook for Yorkshire...


    It gets worse.

    Michael Vaughan is the next name to be involved.

    Allegedly looked at some of the Asian players and said 'there are too many of you lot'.
    His article in the Telegraph this evening is....squirmish to say the least.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2021/11/04/michael-vaughan-named-azeem-rafiq-report-totally-deny-accusation/?utm_content=sport&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636058895
    For Modders, Makers, Players

    https://sixstringsupplies.co.uk/

    Our YouTube Channel for handy "How-To" Wiring Tutorials
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  • More positive than the outlook for Yorkshire...


    It gets worse.

    Michael Vaughan is the next name to be involved.

    Allegedly looked at some of the Asian players and said 'there are too many of you lot'.
    His article in the Telegraph this evening is....squirmish to say the least.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2021/11/04/michael-vaughan-named-azeem-rafiq-report-totally-deny-accusation/?utm_content=sport&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636058895

    There are a few murmurs, Vaughan and his lawyers were behind the Rafiq report being delayed/redacted, and like with Gary Ballance, the details emerged after the report was leaked to the media.
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  • sixstringsuppliessixstringsupplies Frets: 423
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    Well it looks like Graeme Swann will be back on TMS for the Ashes commentary. Noooooooooooooooo!
    For Modders, Makers, Players

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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 12794
    tFB Trader
    I'm a Yorkshire fan - I've not read all the reports in any detail at all - Just the key points - I'm sure I'm the same as many Yorkshire cricket fans that racism is not acceptable in anyway shape or form - Any cover up, denial is equally not acceptable - As I said, I've not read enough to know the full story other than the jist 

    Couple of questions/points

    How does this impact bringing through the next generation of players like Adil Rashid 

    As far as I'm aware, other than Lords + Oval, all cricket clubs/grounds only financially exist through the funding from the ECB, inc the Sky deals + international matches - All clubs I believe are making a lost without this ECB funding - So any form of a fine is surely either a) putting the business at risk of closure and/or b) effectively the fine will be paid by the ECB's own funding

    Who do I support - You can't just walk away from the club and now support Derbyshire (where I live) - Walking away from your team is like walking away from the game

    International matches - Not fully sure how it works for those who watch England at other test match info's - But for Headingley, tickets are first allocated to the England Membership and Yorkshire membership first - They get priority - Next is where I come in - Once you are on the band wagon and have purchased tickets for a previous International match at Headingley, you now get priority supply for the next international match, be it T20 50/50 or Test - I watched England v India in 2021 - I have already purchased tickets for the 50/50 v SA - This now gives me priority for a 2023 test v the Aussies, so no need to go through any lottery stage - At this stage I've had no contact offer of a refund etc for the 50/50 v SA but dare say it will follow - But where does this leave me - I dare say to apply for tickets at other venues, not to far away from me, for 2022, like Trent Bridge, Old Trafford and Edgbaston, then these venues will be sold out already - Then for 2023 v the Aussies, at best I will have to go into a lucky pick lottery for a test match - So chances are I will not be able to watch an England match live for a while - Surely it is not fair to deny good cricket fans the chance to watch international matches, at a venue they like, that is close to them - However a slight moan/disappointment for me personally is nothing compared to the abuse, worry,  thoughts of suicide that Azeem Rafiq had to endure

    I'm sorry for what Azeem has had to go through - But surely part of the punishment with a full name/shame should be to the players, coaches, concerned, along with the 'management' involved in the cover-up/denial - But in many ways, myself and many other good fans, have also been found guilty as well and that isn't fair - But as I said thoughts + support should be for Azeem and not me 
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  • Rich210Rich210 Frets: 576
    edited November 2021


    How does this impact bringing through the next generation of players like Adil Rashid 


    To give some context to my answer, I spent my youth knocking on the Lancashire set up and played high-level amateur cricket for the majority of my 20s. During that time I became a level 2 + additional coaching components that come before the level 3 assessment. During my playing and coaching time I volunteered for the village club as a representative at league meetings, and also developed a 20/20 format for local clubs in the area I was living in at the time. While I did my masters and PhD I played for the university I studied at when possible. 

    I perceived most cricket clubs were institutionally racist. I perceived that at all clubs I played at and with apart from 1. The weren't just racist. Often they were bigoted and homophobic. Even in league meetings I listened to old men talk about the perils of puffs coaching children. I would often here a typical slur of "them Asians" on the university team coming from local white players. At one cricket club they even had a massive painting in the pavilion depicting white colonial power taking on 'savages'.  

    I think it's going to be really difficult and a lot more stories are going to come out. Racism in cricket is broadly accepted by those within the community. Yorkshire CCC is a typical example of institutionalised racism where those in power don't see what they are doing as racist. That still doesn't mean they are not racist, because it's obvious they are to others from the outside. But when an institution can not see it happening, and deny it's happening, but it happens, that is a sign of significant institutional racism.

    I think it's going to take a huge change for things to improve. Cricket clubs are small scale, local places often run by a very small amount volunteers that do the lionshare of the work. From my perception these people tend to be quite bitter and twisted, and often complain about no one wanting to help them. It means that there is often no reason to change as they are closed shops run by difficult people. There are some initiatives at some clubs to promote cricket to the local Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities but these are in the minority. 





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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 12794
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    ^^^^^ - thanks for the insight - I've not delved into enough detail on this story, but as you say I'm expecting more to come out, both regarding YCCC ex-players and I dare say other players from other counties - But I'm surprised we've not heard more from other Asian based players who have played at YCCC agreeing with Azeem

    I'm also a touched surprised at the ban on International matches for a while at Headingley - Partly as this story is not new - ECB knew about it a while ago - Yet the ECB still granted a 'franchise' to Headingley/Northern Supercharges - So why grant such an arrangement when bad news is in the air - I dare say they will say at the point of the 'franchises' in place, it was to late to change and/or the racism charge was not in place
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 10961
    Don't expect any coherent approach out of the ECB.  It's an organisation that thinks the Hundred is a good idea, and used the phrase "upweight resources" in its statement on this the other day.
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  • How does this impact bringing through the next generation of players like Adil Rashid 

    As far as I'm aware, other than Lords + Oval, all cricket clubs/grounds only financially exist through the funding from the ECB, inc the Sky deals + international matches - All clubs I believe are making a lost without this ECB funding - So any form of a fine is surely either a) putting the business at risk of closure and/or b) effectively the fine will be paid by the ECB's own funding

    Who do I support - You can't just walk away from the club and now support Derbyshire (where I live) - Walking away from your team is like walking away from the game



    The ECB is indeed in a bind when it comes to YCCC. If they aren't tough on them for the racism, then it makes their whole inclusivity approach over the international game, taking a knee, and the Hundred look fucking stupid. 

    If they don't slap on major penalties, then Durham can rightly stand up and ask what the fuck is going on given how they were treated

    it's going to be a long drawn out process and the first set is for complete change at the top within YCCC. 






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  • Rich210 said:

    To give some context to my answer, I spent my youth knocking on the Lancashire set up and played high-level amateur cricket for the majority of my 20s. During that time I became a level 2 + additional coaching components that come before the level 3 assessment. During my playing and coaching time I volunteered for the village club as a representative at league meetings, and also developed a 20/20 format for local clubs in the area I was living in at the time. While I did my masters and PhD I played for the university I studied at when possible. 

    I perceived most cricket clubs were institutionally racist. I perceived that at all clubs I played at and with apart from 1. The weren't just racist. Often they were bigoted and homophobic. Even in league meetings I listened to old men talk about the perils of puffs coaching children. I would often here a typical slur of "them Asians" on the university team coming from local white players. At one cricket club they even had a massive painting in the pavilion depicting white colonial power taking on 'savages'.  

    I think it's going to be really difficult and a lot more stories are going to come out. Racism in cricket is broadly accepted by those within the community. Yorkshire CCC is a typical example of institutionalised racism where those in power don't see what they are doing as racist. That still doesn't mean they are not racist, because it's obvious they are to others from the outside. But when an institution can not see it happening, and deny it's happening, but it happens, that is a sign of significant institutional racism.

    I think it's going to take a huge change for things to improve. Cricket clubs are small scale, local places often run by a very small amount volunteers that do the lionshare of the work. From my perception these people tend to be quite bitter and twisted, and often complain about no one wanting to help them. It means that there is often no reason to change as they are closed shops run by difficult people. There are some initiatives at some clubs to promote cricket to the local Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities but these are in the minority. 


    I'd agree with much of that from my experiences of uni, youth county, and league cricket around the West Country. One of the things that oddly hasn't been said in much of the press about the YCCC case is that it's very much racism against a specific identity (Muslim/Islam). This is very much what I heard in the leagues. West Indian sides were accepted, the South African and Australians likewise, and we had a lot of good Zimbabweans come over and play in the area. through playing with overseas guys who used phrases like 'Saffer' and 'Zimbo' about themselves, it was taken that those phrases were as acceptable as Brit and Aussie. It was a different case when it came to Pakistani-heavy teams. Little of the racism was vitriolic. You can imagine the comments about curries and rags on the head. 

    One thing I did find though: the comments about curries and whatnot defined league cricket. The more overt "fucking N word" racism came at the higher levels of youth county cricket and predominantly from public school educated people. It actually dawned on me a few weeks ago since moving back to this part of the world how few people from my playing days I'm still in touch with who still play here. 



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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 10838
    World T20 final is shaping up ti be a good game. However, the scrote on the PA who cannot let ten seconds pass between balls without shouting his head off with a load of utter, utter, utter bollocks has to taken outside and shot. It's coming close to ruining it.

    We don't need music blasting out. We don't need twats bawling out over the PA.

    Oh dear lord, there's a woman doing it now. 

    SHUT THE FUCK UP!!! 
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  • BBBluesBBBlues Frets: 635
    Is the T20 still going? I thought the final finished after the coin toss had been done.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 10961
    Less than a month until the proper cricket starts (8th Dec in Brisbane).
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 10961
    edited November 2021
    Not looking good for Vaughan:


    I think I read somewhere that Vaughan's lawyers were involved in blocking the publication of the report.
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