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  • sev112sev112 Frets: 2457
    Zeta a very dangerous precedent for the future , that anyone in the lead declares their mental health to be a concern (as is apparently the reason for not playing today) 

    I was interested in the talk sport commentator who was put on the spot this afternoon , and he said that he had lots of empathy and in general he was siding with the Indian players who were concerned about their families; but then went on to say that if IPL wasn’t being played, then there would be a test going on today 
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 10838
    I'm not sure you can say that the test was abandoned when it never started, abandoning suggests leaving something that exists and the test never existed as a competitive game.

    Despite the cricketing world now dancing to India's tune it will be interesting to see how this is resolved. The test must either be played at a later date or awarded to England or else it may set a precedent allowing teams that are one up with one to play in a series to manufacture a reason to postpone the final test.

    I read somewhere that it was on the cards that this might happen as the fourth test was played at the Oval and the final test of a long series is traditionally played there. Fanciful? Maybe. 
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 21788
    edited September 2021
    Of course, the IPL is a huge factor here. Tom Harrison coming out and denying it was a bit embarassing.

    But given Kohli seems to be the appointed poster boy of Test Cricket, I wonder how he is currently feeling. I notice no players from either team have spoken out...yet. His whole legacy as a captain was to win a test series in England. I bet he is fuming.

    I suspect the series will be awarded to India (they were the better team I suppose) but it will always have that little asterix in the history books as "final match abandoned" with the old conundrum of never knowing the result....England more than capable of winning the final test. Also more than capable of getting pummelled. 

    Both sides have shut up because this is nothing to do with them. They've got little power and little say in it. This is about two country boards, one with far more wealth and power than the other. 

    Remember the ICL? The ICC ruled that it was not kosher and that the IPL was by virtue of being classified as being a domestic tournament. End result: the IPL survived, the ICL didn't and some players had their international careers affected through ICC weakness. At the time I said on the old BBC 606 service that it was utterly ridiculous to classify the IPL as a domestic tournament and was more than mildly rebuked. Here's the outcome of that, a situation where the needs of a "domestic tournament" have overtaken the needs of an international series. The players might feel shit but most of these guys have taken IPL money at some point. You might get the former vice captain of England saying he's disappointed about it but Moeen not so long back reacted to losing his Test contract by announcing a Test break so he could play more white ball franchise cricket ie. he put white ball needs ahead of Test needs. The ECB can whine all they like but they put Hundred needs above everything else so they could try to spin off their shitty version of the game and hope to sell the rights to that in order to compete with the BCCI. Tom Harrison can't really moan at the BCCI for being gits when he's been flicking two fingers up at the English domestic game. 

    Fact is, we are at a point now where the game domestically and internationally is an absolute fucking disaster. The scheduling is lousy. The Ashes are in danger. The domestic game is fucked. We have a stupid format rammed in. We have no coherence in selection. We have players struggling mentally after Covid bubble life. Two years on from the World Cup win that was meant to spark a new era in English cricket, the ECB have turned domestic 50 over cricket into a 2nd XI competition, have shat on the four-day game and harmed our Test side, have pushed the domestic T20 aside just ahead of a World T20 tournament that we have a genuine chance of winning, launched a pointless new format, and have demonstrated twice this year how the BCCI can whip them about.   

    Tom Harrison should be dragged into the middle of Trent Bridge, stripped, and be forced to undergo a long colonoscopy using only Stumpcam and ball tracking. 




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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 10838

    Fact is, we are at a point now where the game domestically and internationally is an absolute fucking disaster. The scheduling is lousy. The Ashes are in danger. The domestic game is fucked. We have a stupid format rammed in. We have no coherence in selection. We have players struggling mentally after Covid bubble life. Two years on from the World Cup win that was meant to spark a new era in English cricket, the ECB have turned domestic 50 over cricket into a 2nd XI competition, have shat on the four-day game and harmed our Test side, have pushed the domestic T20 aside just ahead of a World T20 tournament that we have a genuine chance of winning, launched a pointless new format, and have demonstrated twice this year how the BCCI can whip them about.   


    Sadly true. If English domestic cricket was a person, the police would have been called in by now to investigate the abuse it has suffered.

    I can, to an extent, appreciate that the loss of spectator income during covid has meant that the ECB are scrambling around for cash, and that the Hundred (pauses to spit) has helped, but we need a coherent strategy for the medium term. And if a lack of income means that players can't be paid at their current rates then that needs to be reflected in contracts which calculate the huge amounts being paid to the incomes being generated.

    Unless, of course, the whole thing is being skillfully managed to arrive at an eight-team first-class franchise system.

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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 21788
    edited September 2021
    scrumhalf said:
    Sadly true. If English domestic cricket was a person, the police would have been called in by now to investigate the abuse it has suffered.

    I can, to an extent, appreciate that the loss of spectator income during covid has meant that the ECB are scrambling around for cash, and that the Hundred (pauses to spit) has helped, but we need a coherent strategy for the medium term. And if a lack of income means that players can't be paid at their current rates then that needs to be reflected in contracts which calculate the huge amounts being paid to the incomes being generated.

    Unless, of course, the whole thing is being skillfully managed to arrive at an eight-team first-class franchise system.

    Still looking for firm evidence. George Dobell's piece last year said profits on paper were down to accounting practices. 

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/explainer-will-the-hundred-make-a-profit-1222261

    Also pertinent to remember that the BBL saw loses for the majority of teams in the first two seasons:

    Despite the popularity of the BBL, just one team, Melbourne Stars, turned a profit in the first season, and the combined team losses amounted to $1.85 million, with CA itself losing $10 million. McKenna was unperturbed by the financial troubles, however, saying that "based on results from the opening season, we're confident this investment is a worthwhile one. Any loss needs to be viewed in the context of the significant investment needed to launch a new league and contains a proportion of expenses that relate to establishment costs."

    In the second season, despite projections that five teams would make a profit, only two actually did. But these figures, CA maintained, were to be expected. It was the nature of the long-term investment. CA pointed to the imminent broadcasting deal as the endgame for the league's start-up costs.

    Sanjay Patel says the Hundred will make a profit. Yeah yeah. 

    And if you really want to vomit, then the Colin Graves piece in City AM earlier this year is the one that'll make you chuck. Private investment into sport, CVC, all the usual. It's pretty shitty. That's the direction he started and that's the direction we will continue to go in. The counties have their hands tied and the players will keep on going where the money is with occasional bouts of tears when something like this Test being cancelled happens. Until you get people standing up and complaining, and some of the players really do have to have the balls to stand up and shout, nothing will change. 

    https://www.cityam.com/former-england-cricket-chief-colin-graves-i-know-indian-investment-in-the-hundred-is-there-if-the-doors-are-opened/





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  • @Heartfeltdawn genuine question -- if you were running the ECB what would your long-term strategy be?
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  • Stuckfast said:
    @Heartfeltdawn genuine question -- if you were running the ECB what would your long-term strategy be?

    The very first step: return cricket in this country to one where it lives within its financial means.

    The top-down approach started in the 2000s and the wages started to spiral. The Ashes win and the Sky deal bloated this further and county salaries, which were crap in the 1990s went boomshanka and went the other way. Start of the 90s, Somerset's playing budget was around £300,000. Have a gander at these figures collated on someone's blog (cricket finances are seldom clear and easy to find out)

    http://sideoncricket.blogspot.com/2019/11/county-championship-salary-cap.html

    There has to be some recognition that chasing the cash has made English cricket look fucking ridiculous. We ran after Stanford's millions and looked stupid: we made our county sides bid against one another for international games and nearly bankrupted some and had to rely on the taxpayer to bail out Hampshire and Glamorgan: we chased the Sky money and cut off a generation from watching live cricket on telly at a time when cricket was as high profile in the media as can be: we launch a new format whilst fucking over our existing successful ones. Post-Covid we can't be spending like we used to.

    I don't think this top-down approach has done anything good for English cricket. I'm critical of the women's game for the way they've introduced contracts and how money is spent on overseas players whilst the domestic women's game is so poorly funded. Australia are the best women's team out there because they've done it differently and tried to put more funding into the domestic levels of the game in order to have the knock-on effect higher up the pyramid. Over here, we seem to have the attitude of "Look, women on contracts for money! Hurrah!" whilst paying absolute lip service to the domestic women's game. 

    And as the salaries for the top people went up, so the ticket prices did too. It's fucking galling to have the like of Harrison and Patel talk about T'Hundred bringing in new people who have never been to a major match before. Of course they fucking haven't when a Day 1 Ashes ticket at Lords is £150. Lots of you guys have been to England games recently, you know the prices. When Hundred tickets were going out free in some cases, discounted in others, but all in the cheap category, of course you'll get new people. The ECB makes itself look shit by whining about a lack of diversity at international games when part of the reason for that lack of diversity is the price of those same games, a price the ECB has never seen fit to change in any way. 

    Some of this bloat goes down to youth levels. My county days saw us paying for our jumpers and ties and for accommodation costs. That was shit but the flip side to me is seeing youth sides going over to Sri Lanka and Abu Dhabi for matches with ECB grant money. When the club game is dying in my county and the main training facility has been dumped in a large private school with a corresponding increase in privately educated players whilst the state school players are ignored or find their chances reduced, then something is absolutely wrong with this system. 

    There's something wrong when counties were told to sort out their finances, have made huge strides to increase their commercial approach, and most have done this well, and the governing body then fucks over those counties with a stupid cricket format. When a club like Somerset is run well, has good finances, a good supporter base, has hosted international games for men and women, and is still dumped out by that same format, then the ECB make the backers of the European Super League footie look like saints. 

    Now my approach isn't what the ECB are doing. I wouldn't be chasing after Indian money like Colin Graves wants or Sanjay Patel dreams about. And quite honestly for all my spouting, the thing I feel saddest about is seeing the club game back here in Yokelshire. as Iv'e said before, my first league club at the start of the 90s ran 4 sides on a Saturday and the other club in the town ran 2. Now the other club is dead and my old side have struggled to make 2 sides on a Saturday. Recession played a part, lack of visibility played a part, the reduction of weekday working occupations in this area was a factor. 

    Shit, my ECB masterplan might take some time to do in full :D






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  • Is there any useful data available about the decline in grassroots participation in cricket as compared with other sports? Every time I talk to anyone involved in football or rugby they seem to bemoan the same issue. Rugby union has a problem with being dominated by private schools, too.
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  • https://www.statista.com/statistics/421078/cricket-sport-involvment-children-england-uk/

    "In 2016, approximately 364,600 adults played cricket at least twice in the last month, whereas in 2018 it shrunk to roughly 291,900 cricket players." 

    Sport England data:
    https://sportengland-production-files.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/1x30_sport_16plus-factsheet_aps10.pdf


    I



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  • sixstringsuppliessixstringsupplies Frets: 423
    edited September 2021 tFB Trader
    @Heartfeltdawn can you do your country a service and apply for the ECB CEO job in 2022? Harrison will surely be forced out before then: https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/the-ashes-202122-england-could-field-under-strength-ashes-squad-as-ecb-resist-postponement-1278049

    Or director of cricket, whatever the top job is!
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  • @Heartfeltdawn can you do your country a service and apply for the ECB CEO job in 2022? Harrison will surely be forced out before then: https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/the-ashes-202122-england-could-field-under-strength-ashes-squad-as-ecb-resist-postponement-1278049

    Or director of cricket, whatever the top job is!
    Me as England CEO? My online history would rule me out immediately. Ollie Robinson looks like an angel compared to my sewer mouth. 

    Plus the ladies would hate me for talking about the ticket sales for their games. 



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  • Incidentally, keen observers might have seen George Dobell hand in his notice this week with Cricinfo. Doesn't take a genius to link his reporting of the Indian cancellation to that decision. 



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  • Incidentally, keen observers might have seen George Dobell hand in his notice this week with Cricinfo. Doesn't take a genius to link his reporting of the Indian cancellation to that decision. 
    I had a look on the cancellation and didn't see anything too radical, but he was brutal on the 100.

    I imagine the ECB have had enough and are pulling some strings?
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  • Oh, and the story about the understrength squad.... firstly, I apologise for the rapid fire posting. My attention span is absolutely fucked after my second Pfizer jab this morning. I'm glad it's come on quicker than jab 1 and hope it will leave just as quickly. 

    I sympathise with the players who understandably do not want to be cooped up:

    "And with some players away for the best part of four months (the IPL being followed by the T20 World Cup and the Ashes), they are understandably reluctant not to see their families for the entire period."

    That said, the schedules have been fucking nuts for years and something like this was always going to happen. It's rather a mirror for what happened with Liverpool after they won the Champions League and fielded the youth side at home and the full time away at the same time. Administrators arrange this shit, the money on offer gets the players and agents onside, and only when the clashes happen do some people wake up to it all. 

    If we field a weakened side, then the money for the TV rights will be lower and that'll damage ECB finances considerably. 

    "
    As things stand, no broadcast partner has been announced to show the Ashes in the UK, though BT Sport are understood to be the likely home of the series. The prospect of a one-sided contest is unlikely to have enticed especially attractive bids."

    I somehow doubt that the financial plan for 2021-22 would have featured an away Ashes series bringing in significantly less income than usual. That'll eat into the Hundred profits... 



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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 10961
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 10838
    Holding was always in line for the axe once Sky started their cull of older commentators, which is a pity as he is top-notch as both a commentator and, from reading and hearing his words, a bloke.

    It's always amused me that someone so terrifying as a bowler could be such an immaculate gentleman after retiring from the game. 

    Sky have a good team of commentators but I think that this weakens it. 
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 10838
    Kent win the T20!!

    Look out for Jordan Cox's assist, one of the greatest pieces of fielding you will ever see. 
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  • chris78chris78 Frets: 8492
    scrumhalf said:
    Kent win the T20!!

    Look out for Jordan Cox's assist, one of the greatest pieces of fielding you will ever see. 
    I had the pleasure of going and it’s my 4th finals day.
    Sod the hundred, it’s the best day out at cricket in the summer. 2 semi finals and a final, a really high standard of cricket, sometimes over 1,000 runs, 30-40 wickets in a day. Crazy value for £89.
    Im a Kent fan so it was super special.
    Jordan Cox’s fielding was silly, but it was a special innings too from the young man under pressure. 
    Here’s the catch for anyone who missed it https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/cricket/58612343
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 12794
    tFB Trader
    scrumhalf said:
    Kent win the T20!!

    Look out for Jordan Cox's assist, one of the greatest pieces of fielding you will ever see. 
    saw that and yes an incredible piece of action
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  • I was a bit baffled by the decision to disallow the other boundary catch though. AFAIK the rules just state that the fielder must not come into contact with the boundary or the ground outside the boundary. No mention of coming into contact with another player who is in contact with the boundary!
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 10838
    I can understand the non-catch, just, although the fielder (was it DBD?) would have had to have had some amazing skill to be deliberately in that position at that time. 

    Anyway, he was out a couple of balls later and we won, so ya-boo stinky-poo to the umpires.
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  • Warwickshire deserved winners of the County Championship after a brilliant last round of games. You've got to feel for Lancs though, having beaten Hampshire by one wicket and then watched Somerset give it away at Edgbaston.

    There will be a few beers drunk in this corner of Yorkshire tonight I suspect as Warks captain Will Rhodes is a local boy...
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  • Mo Ali has retired from Test cricket. At least he didn't wait til halfway through an Ashes series like Swann did. Wonder which spinners they'll take to Aus now? I'm guessing Leach and Parkinson plus the least underwhelming off-spinner they can find.
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  • NiteflyNitefly Frets: 4697
    edited September 2021
    Given the Aussie PM's stance on players' families (no special treatment re Covid restrictions), I wonder if the Ashes will go ahead?

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 10961
    Stuckfast said:
    Mo Ali has retired from Test cricket. At least he didn't wait til halfway through an Ashes series like Swann did. Wonder which spinners they'll take to Aus now? I'm guessing Leach and Parkinson plus the least underwhelming off-spinner they can find.

    He's a bit deluded.  There's a piece on Cricinfo where he says he could have batted like Stokes given the opportunity.  He doesn't have Stokes's technique, and I never saw Stokes get tied in knots as soon as a moderately fast bowler bowled short.

    At least it will stop the selectors picking him.
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  • chris78chris78 Frets: 8492
    Mo will have to go down in the "didn't quite fulfil his potential" club. He got found out by the short ball and was never the same batsman after that. He was a wicket taking spinner, but in a country that believes that spinners shouldn't turn the ball and should go at 2 an over, that's never going to work.
    Bat av 28, bowl av 36. Swap them around and you've got a fine player. With those stats, he looks a bit "bits and pieces."
    Top bloke though, absolutely top bloke.
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  • Stuckfast said:
    Mo Ali has retired from Test cricket. At least he didn't wait til halfway through an Ashes series like Swann did. Wonder which spinners they'll take to Aus now? I'm guessing Leach and Parkinson plus the least underwhelming off-spinner they can find.

    For his sake of his career, I hope it won't be Parkinson because the last two leggies to debut down under never went beyond their debut Tests... 



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  • sixstringsuppliessixstringsupplies Frets: 423
    tFB Trader
    So the Ashes squad has been announced....

    I am surprised Buttler is going he is obviously happy enough with the COVID regulations and allowances for family travel.

    Personally I would have picked Parkinson over Dom Bess and tried to find space for Saj Mahmood.

    Otherwise....it seems to be our strongest squad from those fit and available. 

    I think Australia are pretty shit anyway so we could be in for a competitive series, but their bowling attack is stronger than ours.
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  • The BBC headline:

    England name strong squad for Test tour to Australia


    Points for optimism. Root averages 50.15: the next highest is Hammed at 35.90. Our reserve batsmen are Crawley and Lawrence. Our keepers picked over specialist keepers average low 30s. We have no out and out quick bowler. Our talisman is shit in the second innings. Our spinners haven't played since the winter. 

    Prize for outright shit goes to Andrew Miller from Cricinfo with a piece on the tour selection winners and losers:

    "Dom Bess
    It's been a rocky road for Bess in the past year. His anguish in India in the spring was palpable, as he became a rather unfortunate fall guy for England's wider failings on spinning surfaces at Chennai and Ahmedabad - despite never looking at his best, he had fronted up with 17 wickets in England's three consecutive wins in Asia, after all, including a five-for at Galle in his first outing of the winter. He never came close to a recall this summer despite being included in a handful of squads later in the summer, but then neither did his former Somerset spin-twin Jack Leach, as England chose to field a seam-only attack for their first three Tests, until an abortive return for Moeen Ali against India. But now, with Moeen retired, Bess has an unlikely chance to reassert his status as England's No. 1 spinner - Australia is an unforgiving venue for such a comeback, particularly as a fingerspinner. But England admire his all-round package, including a compact and combative batting technique in the lower-middle order. In the absence of Stokes, Moeen, Sam Curran et al, the need for de facto allrounders may yet tip the scales in his favour."

    Number 1 spinner. "His all round package". Dear god, we've entered a time loop and we're picking the slow bowler based on whether he can bat. 

    An honest article would read "In the absence of our one true world-class allrounder, one retiring and pissing about in Test cricket this year, and the left-armer who's a bit shite overseas on the whole, the need to prop up our inconsistent batting may yet tip the balance in favour of a guy whose bowling fell apart in India so we think he'll do fine touring a place where even great spinners have struggled". 

    I hope we get trashed this winter. It'd be the perfect finale to a summer where the administrators have demonstrated how fucked they are and how much they are prepared to ruin the game in order to chase their 100 dreams. 



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  • sixstringsuppliessixstringsupplies Frets: 423
    tFB Trader
    I was trying to be optimistic Mr @Heartfeltdawn ; =) But yes, 5-0 on the cards, from a very average Australia team. Says it all really.


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