The cricket thread

Heartfeltdawn · August 2021

Stuckfast said:

Obviously Shane Warne was a one-off genius, but was the rest of that 2000 Hampshire attack really better than their current line up? This season they've fielded Kyle Abbott, Mohammed Abbas and Fidel Edwards alongside Brad Wheal, who is properly quick, and Keith Barker who is having a bit of a golden summer.

Maybe it's close between Mullally and Barker, who are both skilful left-arm medium-pace bowlers, but Mullally was a notorious rabbit and Barker is close to being an all-rounder. Not sure who else from the 2000 side makes it into your team ahead of Abbott, Abbas and the others though.

Same with Lancs. Glen Chapple was genuinely a great bowler who should have played for England, but would you seriously pick Chris Schofield ahead of Matt Parkinson?

Mullally was not medium pace at all times (said he cut back for ODI cricket but in Australia in Tests he was getting it through high 80s) and he's well ahead of Barker as a bowler. Fidel Edwards didn't play in 2020 because of Covid and left the club and went back to playing for the West Indies due to Kolpak changes because of Brexit so hasn't played for Hampshire since 2019.

Abbott and Abbas - sure. Very good bowlers. Put those two in and then you've got Warne, Mullally, and Udal as the rest of your attack. The like of Dawson, Crane, and Felix Organ aren't better than those two spinners. Overall squad depth was stronger than. For Lancs, it's the squad depth. Schofield might not be better than Matt Parkinson but Parkinson isn't better than Gary Keedy. Overall squad depth was better then.

When comparing different eras, you have to take the quality of pitch into the discussion. Looking at Hampshire again, the old pitch was an absolute belter than offered bounce and pace. As the groundsman Nigel Grey commented:

"Northlands Road had a good reputation as a very secure batting pitch with lots of runs, quick outfield and highscoring games - it wasn't the bowlers' place to be," he smiles. "But it was such a well-established, flat square, it was very difficult to generate result wickets."

The Rose Bowl became their home in 2001. In 2002, they were docked points for a dangerous pitch. It's a far more result orientated wicket than the ones you had at Northlands Road and and some of the current bowlers would poop themselves if they had to go to Northlands. Likewise some of the young Somerset bowlers now would have some fear if they turned up and the Taunton road had reappeared. With the weather and the schedule we have this year, no bowler in the CC this season will play on a wicket like Northlands or Taunton or the Oval from the turn of the century.

If you're a county seamer now compared to 2000, you play on more wickets that help you, you've got umpires who statistically are more likely to favour you on LBW decisions now referrals have changed umpiring perspective about what might hit the stumps, you play against fewer top quality players because of the drop in overseas player quality and availability, and you play at times of the year more likely to favour you as a bowler.

Stuckfast · August 2021

On what basis are you choosing Mullally over Barker? Mullally averaged 28+ in FC cricket, Barker averages 25. And he played most of his career at Edgbaston so it's not just down to the Rose Bowl being bowler-friendly.

Likewise Parkinson's career average is way better than Keedy's, admittedly from a small sample.

I'd agree that Udal is streets ahead of any of Hampshire's current spinners though.

guitars4you · August 2021

Have 4 tickets for the 3rd test at Headingley - So a day out with mates, stay over night and a bite out somewhere - So looking forward to this

Note no Sibley/Crawley and Malan back with Bess on stand by

Heartfeltdawn · August 2021

Stuckfast said:

On what basis are you choosing Mullally over Barker? Mullally averaged 28+ in FC cricket, Barker averages 25. And he played most of his career at Edgbaston so it's not just down to the Rose Bowl being bowler-friendly.

Likewise Parkinson's career average is way better than Keedy's, admittedly from a small sample.

I'd agree that Udal is streets ahead of any of Hampshire's current spinners though.

On the basis that Mullally and Keedy played against a better calibre of cricket on better pitches.

Barker's best FC season was 2016 where he took 62 wickets with 59 in the CC. 2016 also saw the removal of the coin toss and allowing visiting sides to decide if they wanted to bowl first, a move which was prompted by years of bowler-friendly wickets. That 2016 season, not one Warwickshire batsman averaged over 50 whilst the bowlers continued to make hay.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/county-championship-div1-2016/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=10771;team=1479;type=tournament

2015 was a similar story. The only batsmen to average over 50 was Ian Bell in two games. Nobody else averaged over 40. Seam bowlers returning more than cheerful figures for the most part. 2017: no batsmen averaged over 40.

Parkinson's bowling on an Old Trafford pitch has has generally been regarded as helpful to spinners for some time in an era where batsmen are playing with worse footwork against spinners because they fear lunging out with the front leg and getting trapped LBW as umpires are more likely to give out front front LBWs than even 10 years ago, and he's playing against a lower calibre of player. Even if you say that Parkinson can get to bowl at the like of Amla now, bowling at Amla now isn't the Amla Keedy would have bowled against 10 years ago.

guitars4you · August 2021

So in God's chosen county for the 3rd Test on Wed at Headingley - Weather looks good so looking forward to the day - In the new Emerald Stand, so next/near the Western terrace, so we'll pick up the atmosphere and banter - And effectively behind the stumps

So I'm now thinking that if God, like me is a self confessed Yorkshire fan, was picking his favourite England X1 it would be

Boycott
Vaughan
Hutton
Root
Close
Bairstow
Illingworth
Gough
Chris Old
Laker
Trueman

Laker gets in the team as he was born in Yorkshire - someone slipped up in the past letting him be taken by Surrey

scrumhalf · August 2021

Close, Illingworth, Boycott and Trueman. Maybe with some UN peacekeepers on standby in the dressing room.

guitars4you · August 2021

scrumhalf said:

Close, Illingworth, Boycott and Trueman. Maybe with some UN peacekeepers on standby in the dressing room.

And I was think Illy would be there to captain the team

crunchman · August 2021

guitars4you said:

So in God's chosen county for the 3rd Test on Wed at Headingley - Weather looks good so looking forward to the day - In the new Emerald Stand, so next/near the Western terrace, so we'll pick up the atmosphere and banter - And effectively behind the stumps

So I'm now thinking that if God, like me is a self confessed Yorkshire fan, was picking his favourite England X1 it would be

Boycott
Vaughan
Hutton
Root
Close
Bairstow
Illingworth
Gough
Chris Old
Laker
Trueman

Laker gets in the team as he was born in Yorkshire - someone slipped up in the past letting him be taken by Surrey

You have left out some of the greatest ever.

Herbert Sutcliffe has to be in the side, as does Wilfred Rhodes.

Sutcliffe has the seventh highest test batting average in history (and will go back to sixth when Labaschagne has a couple of low scores). Boycott is only the third best Yorkshire opener (after Hutton and Sutcliffe).

Wilfred Rhodes is the leading first class wicket taker in history (and was a good enough batsman to open the batting for England). You have to include him.

I think you also have to include George Hirst, and to think about Hedley Verity. If you count Laker as a Yorkshireman, then you could argue for leaving out Verity to get a off spin / left arm combination rather than two left armers.

Given all the allrounders available to give the batting depth, there must a better keeper than either of the Bairstows.

guitars4you · August 2021

crunchman said:

guitars4you said:

So in God's chosen county for the 3rd Test on Wed at Headingly - Weather looks good so looking forward to the day - In the new Emerald Stand, so next/near the Western terrace, so we'll pick up the atmosphere and banter - And effectively behind the stumps

So I'm now thinking that if God, like me is a self confessed Yorkshire fan, was picking his favourite England X1 it would be

Boycott
Vaughan
Hutton
Root
Close
Bairstow
Illingworth
Gough
Chris Old
Laker
Trueman

Laker gets in the team as he was born in Yorkshire - someone slipped up in the past letting him be taken by Surrey

You have left out some of the greatest ever.

Herbert Sutcliffe has to be in the side, as does Wilfred Rhodes.

Sutcliffe has the seventh highest test batting average in history (and will go back to sixth when Labaschagne has a couple of low scores). Boycott is only the third best Yorkshire opener (after Hutton and Sutcliffe).

Wilfred Rhodes is the leading first class wicket taker in history (and was a good enough batsman to open the batting for England). You have to include him.

I think you also have to include George Hirst, and to think about Hedley Verity. If you count Laker as a Yorkshireman, then you could argue for leaving out Verity to get a off spin / left arm combination rather than two left armers.

Given all the allrounders available to give the batting depth, there must a better keeper than either of the Bairstows.

To be honest - a large part of it was tongue in cheek - Then it came down to those I have seen play or know of their reputation - I admit I have not seen Close , Laker, Trueman or Hutton play but there reputation proceeds them - But have seen the others play - Illy was captain when I first saw a test match - England v Aussies at Headingly in 1972

I think when you look at the stats then Verity should be in their - And I know of Rhodes, Sutcliffe - But that in away is a bit like saying WG Grace should be in the best ever England X1 - You can't argue with the stats and some would say it is a different game, but is it ? - I'll tell you what, even if you changed the odd player, that team above would be formidable - Home or away in any era

Interesting when you look at many of the county stats from yesteryear and many good players score more runs and take more wickets in a year compared to the stats of today - i know there was no hundred, white ball etc etc back then - I recall 100 wickets in a season was a big wow factor and 1000 runs before the end of May was equally a wow factor

sev112 · August 2021

Which Bairstow as keeper?

guitars4you · August 2021

sev112 said:

Which Bairstow as keeper?

Jonny Bairstow - A good case could be made for either - But can't be easy to follow your dad especially in such circumstances

guitars4you · August 2021

No Wood - shoulder injury - Anyone left ??

crunchman · August 2021

guitars4you said:

No Wood - shoulder injury - Anyone left ??

Don't think there is anyone genuinely fast. Archer, Stone and Wood all out.

Gassage · August 2021

guitars4you said:

sev112 said:

Which Bairstow as keeper?

Jonny Bairstow - A good case could be made for either - But can't be easy to follow your dad especially in such circumstances

God no. David miles better. Jonny is a club keeper.

Gassage · August 2021

crunchman said:

Going back in time, there were all the WIndies fast bowlers for county batsmen to cope with. The list is incredible:

Malcolm Marshall at Hampshire

Michael Holding at Derbyshire

Joel Garner at Somerset

Curtley Ambrose at Northants

Wayne Daniel at Middlesex

Colin Croft at Lancashire

Andy Roberts at Hampshire then Leicestershire

Courtney Walsh at Gloucestershire

Ian Bishop at Derbyshire

Sylvester Clarke at Surrey

George Ferris at Leicestershire - he didn't play test cricket but was a very good bowler and would have walked into the England team in that era, or the current WIndies team. Being around at the same time as Holding, Marshall, Curtley, and Courtney meant a lot of competition for places.

As well as the West Indians you had all time greats in Hadlee, Imran, Waqar, Wasim, and Donald, plus other very good bowlers like Garth Le Roux from South Africa.

Young batsmen coming through now are just not tested against that quality of bowling. It makes the jump to test level a lot harder.

Plus
Franklyn Stephenson
Ezra Moseley
Ottis Gibson
Vanburn Holder
Hartley Alleyne
Winston Benj
Patrick Patterson

None of those were too shabby.....

HerrMetal · August 2021

Honourable mention for Norbert Philip at Essex

scrumhalf · August 2021

In earlier days Kent had John Shepherd and Bernard Julien.

scrumhalf · August 2021

India now five down, all caught by Buttler.

Let's hope we don't get the tail wagging like the last game.

scrumhalf · August 2021

67-8!!

Given how we batted last time around India could be batting again tonight.

Dopesick · August 2021

Yeah 67-9 now.

Great stuff from the bowlers, but yeah I’m just waiting to see if our batsmen have actually got their act together yet.

crunchman · August 2021

This feels weird.

Stuckfast · August 2021

Didn't see that coming!

sixstringsupplies · August 2021

Mark @guitars4you were you there today? Or you going Friday/Saturday. Enjoy it anyway.

The most dominant day of test cricket I can remember since the Ashes in 2010 when we bowled AUS out for 90 odd and ended up 150 odd for no wicket.

guitars4you · August 2021

sixstringsupplies said:

Mark @guitars4you were you there today? Or you going Friday/Saturday. Enjoy it anyway.

The most dominant day of test cricket I can remember since the Ashes in 2010 when we bowled AUS out for 90 odd and ended up 150 odd for no wicket.

Yes I was there - Surprised they decided to bat first - Overhead clouds + some breeze at first - So a great day out - After the 4th wicket went down straight after lunch I joke that I would not object to us losing 1 wicket before tea - But never expected them to be all out so early

Ashes 2010 - was that Trent Bridge + Broad on fire 1st innings - Then Shane scaring us near the end

sixstringsupplies · August 2021

guitars4you said:

sixstringsupplies said:

Mark @guitars4you were you there today? Or you going Friday/Saturday. Enjoy it anyway.

The most dominant day of test cricket I can remember since the Ashes in 2010 when we bowled AUS out for 90 odd and ended up 150 odd for no wicket.

Yes I was there - Surprised they decided to bat first - Overhead clouds + some breeze at first - So a great day out - After the 4th wicket went down straight after lunch I joke that I would not object to us losing 1 wicket before tea - But never expected them to be all out so early

Ashes 2010 - was that Trent Bridge + Broad on fire 1st innings - Then Shane scaring us near the end

Nope it was MCG Boxing Day - the Aussie fans turned up dressed as plastic seats for day 2

pedalo · August 2021

guitars4you said:

sixstringsupplies said:

Mark @guitars4you were you there today? Or you going Friday/Saturday. Enjoy it anyway.

The most dominant day of test cricket I can remember since the Ashes in 2010 when we bowled AUS out for 90 odd and ended up 150 odd for no wicket.

Yes I was there - Surprised they decided to bat first - Overhead clouds + some breeze at first - So a great day out - After the 4th wicket went down straight after lunch I joke that I would not object to us losing 1 wicket before tea - But never expected them to be all out so early

Ashes 2010 - was that Trent Bridge + Broad on fire 1st innings - Then Shane scaring us near the end

Very envious. Must’ve been a great day.

scrumhalf · August 2021

I do like watching Root bat.

guitars4you · August 2021

pedalo said:

guitars4you said:

sixstringsupplies said:

Mark @guitars4you were you there today? Or you going Friday/Saturday. Enjoy it anyway.

The most dominant day of test cricket I can remember since the Ashes in 2010 when we bowled AUS out for 90 odd and ended up 150 odd for no wicket.

Yes I was there - Surprised they decided to bat first - Overhead clouds + some breeze at first - So a great day out - After the 4th wicket went down straight after lunch I joke that I would not object to us losing 1 wicket before tea - But never expected them to be all out so early

Ashes 2010 - was that Trent Bridge + Broad on fire 1st innings - Then Shane scaring us near the end

Very envious. Must’ve been a great day.

luck of the draw isn't it - Can get no play, some play, boring play or a great day - Somewhat ironic in that it was exactly 2 years to the day of the Ben Stokes innings - I was there for the 1st day, again on a Wed and something like 9 Aussie wickets went down on a somewhat stop/start drizzle/light rain day - So yes a great day to remember

pedalo · August 2021

guitars4you said:

pedalo said:

guitars4you said:

sixstringsupplies said:

Mark @guitars4you were you there today? Or you going Friday/Saturday. Enjoy it anyway.

The most dominant day of test cricket I can remember since the Ashes in 2010 when we bowled AUS out for 90 odd and ended up 150 odd for no wicket.

Yes I was there - Surprised they decided to bat first - Overhead clouds + some breeze at first - So a great day out - After the 4th wicket went down straight after lunch I joke that I would not object to us losing 1 wicket before tea - But never expected them to be all out so early

Ashes 2010 - was that Trent Bridge + Broad on fire 1st innings - Then Shane scaring us near the end

Very envious. Must’ve been a great day.

luck of the draw isn't it - Can get no play, some play, boring play or a great day - Somewhat ironic in that it was exactly 2 years to the day of the Ben Stokes innings - I was there for the 1st day, again on a Wed and something like 9 Aussie wickets went down on a somewhat stop/start drizzle/light rain day - So yes a great day to remember

Indeed. I was there for the Stokes day sat in the Kemper stand so I can’t really complain at all about another day of cricket that I do or don’t attend ever again!

scrumhalf · August 2021

Great ton for Root, he's in one hell of a stretch of form.

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