The cricket thread

Mellish · December 2021

Foakes is England's best keeper, IMO. But to take it to the Aussies you need more, a LOT more. Doesn't mean the series has gone but we have to do a lot better or it soon *will* be. I just don't get what England are trying to do tactics-wise. Let's see what happens next

crunchman · December 2021

If you get the Aussies 40 odd for 2 instead of 170 for 1 then it's a different game. Dropping that catch changed the game. You need to pick the good keeper. For all his talent, Buttler is not a good test batsman. He only averages 33. That's nowhere near enough to make up for his keeping. I know @sixstringsupplies mentioned his catch rate being good before this match, but what about all his missed stumpings? We haven't picked our best team with Buttler keeping.

Mellish · December 2021

You can put Foakes behind the sticks (and should IMO) but this thing is a team effort and it just isn't firing as a team. Sure, England may come out and make me eat my words. I wouldn't mind if they did

Mellish · December 2021

@crunman just have to wait and see mate. But I find myself in agreement with a lot you say, FWIW

Teetonetal · December 2021

Buttler ought to be a big weapon for this side, but he is hardly ever given a foundation of big score and tired bowlers. Bar root, all of our batting positions are under performing. That's the part we desperately need to fix

Mellish · December 2021

358-5. The Aussies will be eyeing about 90 minutes under the lights. It isn't looking good.

Mellish · December 2021

Thoughts on the second day of the second Test? Not looking good, is it. Going to take a monumental effort to get out of this one. Where did it all go wrong? Team selection? Team tactics? What's *your* take?

Gassage · December 2021

Thing is, even the best keepers drop....I remember the clamour about Russell over Stewart- Russell then proceeded to drop some similar catches to the one Buttler did yesterday and really never shone as a test keeper. (although for clarity, Stewart was a fantastic keeper, ridiculously underrated as one, and he was far better than Buttler).

Buttler isn't the issue. Runs at the top of the order, gas and spin are.

Stuckfast · December 2021

That Hameed dismissal was absolutely awful.

ArchtopDave · December 2021

First match, Team B win toss, decide to bat and score 147 all out in first innings.
Second match, Team A win toss, decide to bat and declare at 473 in first innings.

bencowling81 · December 2021

Not sure the Silverwood/Root combo is working. Time for a change of coach and captain?

Mellish · December 2021

There's something I haven't seen mentioned before (and this is where you'll need to forgive any stupidity on my part because I love to watch cricket but I come from competitive cycling so I'm no expert on cricket) but doesn't a team need to gel? How can it do that if changes to the lineup keep occurring? Bit of a dummie question?

crunchman · December 2021

bencowling81 said:

Not sure the Silverwood/Root combo is working. Time for a change of coach and captain?

I don't think there is anyone else to be captain. I wouldn't give it to Stokes given his history (fight in Bristol, recent mental health issues, dodgy knees) and none of the other batsmen are sure of their place in the team. Judging by his performances this year the captaincy hasn't been affecting Root's batting either.

Given how bad his selections have been in recent times in terms of a balanced bowling attack, plus the inept keeper, I would quite happily give Silverwood the boot.

UnclePsychosis · December 2021

Mellish said:

Where did it all go wrong? Team selection? Team tactics? What's *your* take?

England being poor at team selection and tactics is just papering over the cracks of the fact that the ECB, and many England players, have chosen to prioritise short form cricket over Tests.

England need to decide if they want to be good at Tests or not, and if they do then they need to spend years working on it. Picking a different wicket keeper or bowler may help them win the odd match here and there but if they want to be consistently good they need to change the foundation.

scrumhalf · December 2021

There isn't a production line of county captains waiting to take over. Test cricket these days is picking someone who looks like he will do well but you never know.

If it starts affecting Root's batting then give it to someone else.

chris78 · December 2021

crunchman said:

bencowling81 said:

Not sure the Silverwood/Root combo is working. Time for a change of coach and captain?

I don't think there is anyone else to be captain. I wouldn't give it to Stokes given his history (fight in Bristol, recent mental health issues, dodgy knees) and none of the other batsmen are sure of their place in the team. Judging by his performances this year the captaincy hasn't been affecting Root's batting either.

Given how bad his selections have been in recent times in terms of a balanced bowling attack, plus the inept keeper, I would quite happily give Silverwood the boot.

Spot on.
You have to ask if Silverwood has improved the test team over Trevor Bayliss. The answer has to be a resounding "no."
There isn't an alternative to Root at the current time and you can't blame him for going into a test in Oz with 5 right arm medium fast bowlers.

Stuckfast · December 2021

The selectors backed people like Sibley, Crawley, Burns, Lawrence, Buttler, Sam Curran and Bairstow all through 2021, which is good in the sense that people need time to prove themselves, and we don't want a return to the 1990s revolving door selection policy. The down side is that it was obvious before the start of the Ashes that most of them weren't good enough, which then left the selectors with nowhere else to go because they hadn't tried anyone else. Except Bracey, who had a mare.

Tannin · December 2021

chris78 said:

There isn't an alternative to Root at the current time and you can't blame him for going into a test in Oz with 5 right arm medium fast bowlers.

Just so. How many of the touring players are the Australians actually scared of? Ans: one. Joe Root. He is the only choice for captain. (You would have added Jimmy Anderson as a threat a few years ago, but great player he has been, at 39 he elicits a bit of respect these days, not fear.)

As for having the the same bowler picked five times in the same side, words fail me. (That is effectively what they have done: if Root wants to actually change the bowling - as opposed to give one bloke a rest and trundle another bloke bowling the same stuff the same way - he pretty much has to bowl himself.) Yep, Australians are absolute rabbits in the face of medium pace swing, but the ball either swings or it doesn't. Mostly it doesn't. You really only need one bowler who can swing it, or two for insurance. Five of them is just nuts. Five won't get any more wickets if it's swinging than your two best ones do, and if it's not swinging (i.e., most of the time) you've got no Plan B.

Of course, it's all very well to say "don't pick 5 medium pacers, pick one or two, plus a couple of genuine quicks, and a classy spinner" but you have to have the players to choose from. And with every man and his dog practicing pajama cricket bowling looking for 20-20 selection, test-quality players are getting very hard to find.

scrumhalf · December 2021

Football and rugby being postponed due to covid, and the cricket is a shambles. Sometimes it's hard to be a sports fan.

chris78 · December 2021

Tannin said:

Just so. How many of the touring players are the Australians actually scared of? Ans: one. Joe Root. He is the only choice for captain. (You would have added Jimmy Anderson as a threat a few years ago, but great player he has been, at 39 he elicits a bit of respect these days, not fear.)

As for having the the same bowler picked five times in the same side, words fail me. (That is effectively what they have done: if Root wants to actually change the bowling - as opposed to give one bloke a rest and trundle another bloke bowling the same stuff the same way - he pretty much has to bowl himself.) Yep, Australians are absolute rabbits in the face of medium pace swing, but the ball either swings or it doesn't. Mostly it doesn't. You really only need one bowler who can swing it, or two for insurance. Five of them is just nuts. Five won't get any more wickets if it's swinging than your two best ones do, and if it's not swinging (i.e., most of the time) you've got no Plan B.

Of course, it's all very well to say "don't pick 5 medium pacers, pick one or two, plus a couple of genuine quicks, and a classy spinner" but you have to have the players to choose from. And with every man and his dog practicing pajama cricket bowling looking for 20-20 selection, test-quality players are getting very hard to find.

Summed up perfectly.
The issue is the county game and lack of respect for the county championship. The Bob Willis trophy was superb with 3 divisions and competitive cricket, but the problem is summed up by my county - Kent. The Canterbury pitch means if you’ve got a half decent medium pacer, he’ll average below 20. Play in march/April and that medium pacer is unplayable. I adore Darren Stevens, but he shouldn’t be averaging 12-13 every season by bowling sub 70mph wobblers. Our quickest bowler, Matt Milnes, might touch around 80mph. We hardly bother with spinners, other than in one day stuff. How you can develop a test side with that is beyond me

sev112 · December 2021

scrumhalf said:

Football and rugby being postponed due to covid, and the cricket is a shambles. Sometimes it's hard to be a sports fan.

F1 …. Oh wait

FastEddie · December 2021

Gassage said:

Thing is, even the best keepers drop....I remember the clamour about Russell over Stewart- Russell then proceeded to drop some similar catches to the one Buttler did yesterday and really never shone as a test keeper. (although for clarity, Stewart was a fantastic keeper, ridiculously underrated as one, and he was far better than Buttler).

Buttler isn't the issue. Runs at the top of the order, gas and spin are.

You may have pointed out Russel's worse period in your post.
The question is 'how often did he do it?' I'd wager it was very rarely.

England have had this problem since Gilly broke the mould.
Foakes has to play for me. He's from Essex but is also the best glove man. Same as James Foster (can of worms that one).

The rest of your post is spot on.

Stokes is class as is Root and I've always liked Malan (I like a prickly attitude).
Pope, whilst ginger gets found out even at County level (1 big score last year). Burns and Sibley, nope.
Essex has a rather good left hander opening the batting........(which one am I hinting at?)

My main gripe is the preparation. Shocking. It's like my team, turning-up, have a coffee, get changed, and hey presto! Some have a smoke (which is showing off).
Covid aside, you can't play the Aussies away and have a gentle knock about for a day or so. Embarrassing.

Mellish · December 2021

When playing the Aussies you have to be bold, brave and daring. I just don't see that. Sure, flashes of defiance, but few and far between.

crunchman · December 2021

Why is Broad opening the bowling ahead of Robinson?

Mellish · December 2021

Oh dear...

UnclePsychosis · December 2021

Why do teams never enforce the follow-on any more?

crunchman · December 2021

UnclePsychosis said:

Why do teams never enforce the follow-on any more?

They want to give the bowlers a rest, and they don't want to bat last on a fifth day pitch.

If there is enough time in the game, then batting again normally makes sense. In this case I think they would have been better off enforcing it with the pink ball under lights, especially as the weather forecast says there is a possibility of lost time tomorrow because of rain. The Aussies seem to be particularly allergic to enforcing it though - maybe because they have bad memories of Botham at Headingley in 1981, and Laxman at Kolkata in 2001.

Tannin · December 2021

crunchman said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Why do teams never enforce the follow-on any more?

They want to give the bowlers a rest, and they don't want to bat last on a fifth day pitch.

The Aussies seem to be particularly allergic to enforcing it though - maybe because they have bad memories of Botham at Headingley in 1981, and Laxman at Kolkata in 2001.

Bad memories of follow-ons? Too right!

All else aside, in these sport management science days, teams are very reluctant to over-bowl their quicks. And the reality is, if you are so far on top that you have the ability to enforce the follow-on, you are so far on top that you will very likely win the match whether you do or whether you don't, so why take the risk?

And, of course, Australians are terrified by the thought of batting on a fifth day pitch against England's world-class spin attack.

Mellish · December 2021

Need to bat a day and a half to save this. Two sessions under the lights. Do-able but not likely.

Mellish · December 2021

Well, that's about it for *this* Test. Root hit in the groin at over 100k/h. But that's what can happen. If they drop Butler, who to replace him? How much cricket has Birstow done lately? None.

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