XL Bully Dogs.........

theatreanchor · September 2023

So even banning won’t stop the attacks say the RSPCA? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66818862

swiller · September 2023

Owner , probably like many people who own similar stature dogs, see it as a legal street weapon, to display a dont fuck with me attitude locally. Which has coward written all over it.
There is not much other "appeal" to owning one lets face it. £ on food , exercise requirements, aesthetics are all a proper turn off.

Kittyfrisk · September 2023

I'm currently looking after a rescue lurcher cross. She's about 2 years old, 17kg of solid muscle with a gobful of teeth, has very little training & is quite a handful. Luckily she is an unbelievably sweet natured, gentle dog.
If I imagine her at over three times the size & weight, pissed off & going for me... the only way I could expect to stop her is if one of my limbs got stuck in her throat on the way down.
Bully XL's aren't pets, they are status symbols & weapons. Not the dogs fault at all, but they are what they are.
Not sure if a ban will control them, but doing nothing & hoping the current issues will go away just isn't an option.

TeleMaster · September 2023

Jo-to-po said:

TeleMaster said:

menamestom said:

Interesting take from a dog behaviorist, who doesn't believe in breed specific legislation and that dog agression is not necessarily inherent to a particular breed:-

The American XL Bully Dog | Doglistener

I dunno, seems like having lots of mad dogs on the street for him to treat is good for business, whereas banning them is not.

And if you'd actually read the article you'd have seen that he advocates banning this particular breed.

Boring though, wasn't it.

Sporky · September 2023

theatreanchor said:

So even banning won’t stop the attacks say the RSPCA? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66818862

I think they're saying that banning one breed won't stop all dog attacks.

vivalacoulter · September 2023

A friend of mine has one, it is the most wonderful, soft, dopey dog I’ve met.

notanon · September 2023

Gilly said:

notanon said:

I spent a couple of hours trying to figure out how to defend against a 'triggered' dangerous dog. I mean for ordinary ppl not a super fit martial artist.

Fat chance!

There are ways but you will most likely end up prosecuted :-(

Now, consider walking in the park with your grandson of granddaughter FFS this is wrong!

My first thought would be ramming a key into its eyeball but how realistic that would be in the heat of the moment I don’t know. Hope I never find out.

I researched quite a bit and yes keys can be violent weapons. If you saw the dog running at you and you got the key ready fast enough, and got a targeted shot you then you wouldn't be lucky, you would have been protected by guardian angels.

This guy demonstrates legal methods.

I was spooked by a dog in the park running towards our granddaughter. So, what do I do? Carry an illegal weapon? Call the police?

If I hit problems, I like to figure out the best approach to solve. In this instance I did not find a legal feasible approach.

As for just a handful of deaths per, f off! Imagine looking at your mangled child every day. I'm sorry but I do not know what would stop me from flipping and taking the law into my own hands.

Who would guess this is going to get better? Britain is broken, it is going to get worse in my opinion. I am so glad I moved to the valleys!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64798162.amp

Sorry for the rant I hate this situation.

Moloch · September 2023

notanon said:

Gilly said:

notanon said:

I spent a couple of hours trying to figure out how to defend against a 'triggered' dangerous dog. I mean for ordinary ppl not a super fit martial artist.

Fat chance!

There are ways but you will most likely end up prosecuted :-(

Now, consider walking in the park with your grandson of granddaughter FFS this is wrong!

My first thought would be ramming a key into its eyeball but how realistic that would be in the heat of the moment I don’t know. Hope I never find out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64798162.amp

Sweet fucking Jesus, the penalties in that case...

'The owner of the dog that attacked her pleaded guilty in court and was fined £700. The dog was then subject to restrictions - including having to wear a muzzle when it left the house and being placed in a cage when visitors came round.'

Absolutely laughable, except it's not in any way funny. It bit a hole in her face because she moved and they still didn't put it down. As for a fine of £700, is there anyone on this forum who wouldn't slap that on the table for a decent guitar like it was nothing?

NothingOnTheTele · September 2023

notanon said:

I spent a couple of hours trying to figure out how to defend against a 'triggered' dangerous dog. I mean for ordinary ppl not a super fit martial artist.

Fat chance!

There are ways but you will most likely end up prosecuted :-(

Now, consider walking in the park with your grandson of granddaughter FFS this is wrong!

My understanding was that the best way to deal with an aggressive dog (assuming it hasn't already lunged at you) is to stand still, angle your body slightly away from it, keep your arms by your sides, not make eye contact with it, and definitely not turn your back and run.

Easier said than done though when one of those XL fuckers is advancing on you, teeth bared and growling.

stevebrum · September 2023

vivalacoulter said:

A friend of mine has one, it is the most wonderful, soft, dopey dog I’ve met.

Your friend is probably a responsible and capable dog handler. Unfortunately a lot of people are not…

This week alone (from 10 walks) we’ve encountered four other dogs literally swinging off their leads barking and snarling aggressively towards us as we walked past them.

My dog didn’t react to any of them. Not saying him or me are perfect - but I’ve put time in with him and chose a breed that are generally good natured.

You could tell these owners were clueless had no idea how to control or calm their animals and they appeared decent, respectable middle aged folk. Not the stereotype owner of these Bully XL type breeds.

One was black German shepherd, the other a female boxer, the other some spaniel/poodle cross and the other a tiny wire haired thing.

All were full grown dogs not pups.

The GS owner in particular was really fucking clueless and had no idea how to control his mutt.

Dog ownership should be controlled in some way. I don’t have the answer though.

Majorscale · September 2023

vivalacoulter said:

A friend of mine has one, it is the most wonderful, soft, dopey dog I’ve met.

They all say that until the thing goes unpredictably mental and rips someone’s limbs off.

I simply cannot understand the attraction of wanting a dog like a BXL…or dobermans, staffies, German shepherds etc.

Bellycaster · September 2023

notanon said:

Gilly said:

notanon said:

I spent a couple of hours trying to figure out how to defend against a 'triggered' dangerous dog. I mean for ordinary ppl not a super fit martial artist.

Fat chance!

There are ways but you will most likely end up prosecuted :-(

Now, consider walking in the park with your grandson of granddaughter FFS this is wrong!

My first thought would be ramming a key into its eyeball but how realistic that would be in the heat of the moment I don’t know. Hope I never find out.

I researched quite a bit and yes keys can be violent weapons. If you saw the dog running at you and you got the key ready fast enough, and got a targeted shot you then you wouldn't be lucky, you would have been protected by guardian angels.

This guy demonstrates legal methods.

I was spooked by a dog in the park running towards our granddaughter. So, what do I do? Carry an illegal weapon? Call the police?

If I hit problems, I like to figure out the best approach to solve. In this instance I did not find a legal feasible approach.

As for just a handful of deaths per, f off! Imagine looking at your mangled child every day. I'm sorry but I do not know what would stop me from flipping and taking the law into my own hands.

Who would guess this is going to get better? Britain is broken, it is going to get worse in my opinion. I am so glad I moved to the valleys!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64798162.amp

Sorry for the rant I hate this situation.

You could carry things that are legal that can stab a dog hell bent on killing you. Maybe a Fountain Pen or a Screwdriver.

I dunno, I'm just thinking out loud, it scares me too. Anywhere I am, I always check out my environment to look for escape routes, or look for anything discarded (a bottle in a Park) or anything in the vicinity that can be used as a weapon (brick or large stone). There may not be anything but it's just a case of being alert.

Failing that, I will use any means necessary with my own body to subdue or kill a dog that is threatening my life.

Cranky · September 2023

Just fyi, if you’re ever across a dog who’s bit down on something or someone and won’t let go, grab that dog by the back hips/legs and lift up. Jaws will release and then you can put it a good headlock, roll it and subdue it.

Hitting it and screaming at it does nothing.

I love dogs, but not the untrained ones.

Grangousier · September 2023

Perhaps they could offer a bounty of £500 per Bully XL head delivered to a police station. There'd be a queue of dodgy thugs with carrier bags dripping blood outside every police station in the country.

Then charge them with animal cruelty with an on-the-spot fine of, say, £500 per animal.

Bellycaster · September 2023

Cranky said:

Just fyi, if you’re ever across a dog who’s bit down on something or someone and won’t let go, grab that dog by the back hips/legs and lift up. Jaws will release and then you can put it a good headlock, roll it and subdue it.

Hitting it and screaming at it does nothing.

I love dogs, but not the untrained ones.

Easier to say it than to do it. The Dog will still be ferocious and will resist and someone who doesn't know how to handle one might let it slip and off it goes again.

Once the Dog attacks, it is dead one way or another. If I had hold of it's back legs after releasing it from a Child's face, I'd be swinging that Dog's head into the nearest hard, flat surface with no remorse.

euan · September 2023

A XL bully weighs between 30 and 60kg. There’s no picking up and swinging one for most people.

Bellycaster · September 2023

euan said:

A XL bully weighs between 30 and 60kg. There’s no picking up and swinging one for most people.

It's amazing what adrenaline can do.

Cranky · September 2023

Bellycaster said:

Cranky said:

Just fyi, if you’re ever across a dog who’s bit down on something or someone and won’t let go, grab that dog by the back hips/legs and lift up. Jaws will release and then you can put it a good headlock, roll it and subdue it.

Hitting it and screaming at it does nothing.

I love dogs, but not the untrained ones.

Easier to say it than to do it. The Dog will still be ferocious and will resist and someone who doesn't know how to handle one might let it slip and off it goes again.

Once the Dog attacks, it is dead one way or another. If I had hold of it's back legs after releasing it from a Child's face, I'd be swinging that Dog's head into the nearest hard, flat surface with no remorse.

True enough.

The important thing is the leg lift. I’ve seen it work firsthand in a dog fight. Most people aren’t aware of it.

Bellycaster · September 2023

The leg lift is very important info @Cranky ;

I had no idea about that.

chrisj1602 · September 2023

vivalacoulter said:

A friend of mine has one, it is the most wonderful, soft, dopey dog I’ve met.

Yeah, we’ve heard that one.

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

euan said:

It turns out a substantial amount of the UK population of XL Bullies are bred from a stud called Killer Kimbo.

Guess why he got his name?

That's actually very very common, in fact it's the norm, and not even worth mentioning other than to sensationalise the event/story. Every breed/pedigree of dog can be traced back to a single genetic parent - so can us humans in fact Primordial Eve though there are 7 of them the last I read as in every single human is the descendant of one of 7 females and carries her genetic markers, and with ''modern breeds'' - this can mean breeds that are 200 years old, that single direct ancestor is common knowledge within the scientific community, and members of the general public with an interest in dogs and their evolutionary history..

Take the humble Border Collie for example, there is not a single Border Collie in existence that is not descended from a single dog who's name was Old Hemp - Old Hemp after all was the first Border Collie, and carries his genetic material, we even know which farm in Northumbria Old Hemp was bred on, and by who - in fact we even know not only how much Old Hemp's owner and breeder charged for studding him out but also who he studded him out to and how much he sold the puppies from Old Hemp that he bred himself on his farm. In fact we even know who bred the very first ''toy'' dog, what breed it was, and who it's offspring are - some where gifted to the British Royal Family at the time by the French Royal Family of the time, and it was originally bred for French royalty, so it predates their wee revolution which puts it in the 1600's over 200 years before the first Border Collie, Old Hemp, was bred.

Just to make things clear I am neither for or against the XL Bully, would I own one myself, very possibly, I actually like the breed and every example I've met - and I've met and interacted with a hell of a lot of them I did after all used to own a dog walking company and would walk 20 dogs a day on average, what I am against, and extremely against it at that, is Breed Specific Legislation. Sure they're now going to ban them - once they can figure out how to properly identify and classify them as they are not a recognised breed with Kennel Club standards and traits they had this exact same issue with the American Pit Bull Terrier back in 1990, in the same way the 4 breeds on the UK's banned breed list was banned, first all the ones currently in the public will automatically be exempted - so dogs over a certain age or born before a certain date are fine but it's open season on those born after that date and are not of a certain age, and just like the 4 breeds that currently make up the list of dogs covered by the original Dangerous Dogs Act of 1991 - by the way this act was drastically relaxed in 1997, people in the UK will still be able to buy, own, and even breed them if they get a license for it, which is very easy to get - I have 2 Dogo Argentinos and I'm licensed to own them though not to breed them hence why they've been snipped.

And for anybody who owns either a golden Lab or Retriever - or any dog that can pass for one of these breeds and has the same colour of fur, if you want a good laugh, I highly recommend you buy one of these - don't worry they're available in different colours so you can get the look right, for you dog, and take it out for a walk in public with the dog wearing it, and see how long it takes before you're surrounded by panicking police officers in desperate need of fresh clean knickers.

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

Kittyfrisk said:

Dominic said:

CavemanGrogg said:

Kittyfrisk said:

^ Not so sure about "poodles,they're gun dogs, specifically for shooting water fowl."
I like standard poodles & think they make great retrievers, particularly in waterlands, but even they would admit they are lousy shots...

That's what the standard poodle was originally bred for, to retrieve shot water fowl. I know a few people who breed them for exactly this, and know people who use them as gun dogs, much better than a retriever especially when the dog is expected to get wet often and for long periods of time.

Are you confusing them with Irish Water Spaniels ?
......a breed that looks very similar
Possibly not but there must be a great similarity
Doesn't matter because you can train most breeds to do any of the working dog tasks .........maybe just not as naturally adaept

Nope, @CavemanGrogg was spot on. Poodles (Standard) are an old type of gun dog/retriever & are 'proper' dogs, unlike their miniature, rheumy eyed, neurotic, yappy cousins. * Apologies to miniature poodle owners, but I have never met one I could like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poodle

Miniature Poodles are actually used as gun dogs as well, though obviously for smaller water fowl, the Toy variety, and the variety between the Toy and Miniature Poodle - which isn't universally recognised, are the only 2 breeds of Poodle that are not used or rather, where not bred to be gun dogs, even though they are still what is known as ''soft jawed'' - basically the dog has the ability to pick up an uncooked egg in it's shell without damaging the shell so it can retrieve shot prey without punctuating the animals flesh with it's teeth.

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

euan said:

CavemanGrogg said:

This makes for some interesting reading, especially the breed of dogs responsible for the fatalities: List of fatal dog attacks in the United Kingdom.

10 deaths last year. 5 this year. 75% were there result of an American Bully attack

yocky said:

It does make for interesting reading, not sure about your data analysis though.

Fatal dog attacks were indeed running at about 3 a year in the UK until very recently. By comparison there are on average about 40 per year in the US. That's more than double the rate per capita in the US. One of these countries had nationwide BSL and one didn't.

Then starting in 2021 the UK rate has shot up, overtaking the US rate per capita, and guess what type of dog seems to have made up all the difference? Yep, our friends the Bully. So we're back to square one which does obviously raise questions about the absolute effectiveness of BSL but let's not pretend that it hasn't led to better outcomes in the UK than the US until just recently. And let's stop the gaslighting about how "all dogs can bite" and "cocker rage". Some of these dogs are responsible for a completely outsized number of attacks compared to their population, and the outcomes of those attacks are clearly worse than usual - so it's perfectly reasonable to question whether what is effectively a lifestyle choice should be so potentially difficult for everyone else.

There is a world of difference between a Bully - an American Bulldog, and an XL Bully, they're two completely different breeds with vastly different physical characteristics and behavioral traits. Not to mention that one of them, the American Bulldog, is a well established recognised breed with internationally recognised physical characteristics and behavioral traits, and the other isn't and doesn't have any internationally recognised physical characteristics and behavioral traits. Right now as it stands, two Bully XL dogs from different litters can be and have vastly different physical characteristics, behavioral traits, and genetic makeup, with the only thing they have in common being ''they look very similar to each other'' to the average person on the street, and yet they will be classed as the same breed. It will just be like the early 90's again when perfectly innocent dogs will be destroyed for the crime of having a passing resemblance to a banned breed, hence why the Dangerous Dogs Act of 1991 was dramatically relaxed back in 1997 and even by then the American Pit Bull Terrier wasn't an official recognised breed with defined physical characteristics and behavioral traits, that didn't happen until the early 2000's around 10 years after the Dangerous Dogs Act was first introduced and close to 5 years after these laws where dramatically relaxed after all, all it took to have a dog destroyed was for somebody to say that a dog in public looked like a banned breed and it would be confiscated and destroyed - it's a very different process that involves the courts if the dog is on private property if it's reported the court has to give permission for the dog to be destroyed it doesn't just happen automatically like it would if it was on public property so there is the burden of evidence and proof before the dog can be destroyed.

notanon · September 2023

NothingOnTheTele said:

notanon said:

I spent a couple of hours trying to figure out how to defend against a 'triggered' dangerous dog. I mean for ordinary ppl not a super fit martial artist.

Fat chance!

There are ways but you will most likely end up prosecuted :-(

Now, consider walking in the park with your grandson of granddaughter FFS this is wrong!

My understanding was that the best way to deal with an aggressive dog (assuming it hasn't already lunged at you) is to stand still, angle your body slightly away from it, keep your arms by your sides, not make eye contact with it, and definitely not turn your back and run.

Easier said than done though when one of those XL fuckers is advancing on you, teeth bared and growling.

Not sure you could tell a 5 year old to stand still and put your arms by your side.

Axe_meister · September 2023

Funny how with these Bully breeds the original recipe is the good old English Bulldog, the most placid, lazy arse dog you can get (although my beagle could give it a run for the money in the lazyness stakes)

UnclePsychosis · September 2023

Trying to square a circle, really.

The "ban the breed" people aren't realistic.

The "there's no such thing as a dangerous breed, just dangerous owners" people are fantasists.

No idea how you fix the problem.

digitalscream · September 2023

UnclePsychosis said:

Trying to square a circle, really.

The "ban the breed" people aren't realistic.

The "there's no such thing as a dangerous breed, just dangerous owners" people are fantasists.

No idea how you fix the problem.

It's easy...as I've been saying, you solve two problems at once: massive fine for breeding of any kind (even one litter) without a (prohibitively expensive) license, and then ban the breeding of certain breeds of dog (as well as importing them, that's already possible under DEFRA as far as I can tell). Also make the definition of all breeds a matter of law by genetics, not the Kennel Club's abusive breed standards.

Within a few years, the problem goes away by itself, and you also fix the problem of irresponsible breeding, which is a much more important issue for the "deed not breed" crowd (which, admittedly, I'm part of), so there's something in it for everyone who matters.

None of that will grab headlines and votes like "WE'RE SAVING THE CHILDREN BY BANNING THESE DEMON DOGS!", though.

Dominic · September 2023

Enough of this ........I'm not going to be scared of them when I go out
I'm getting a Komodo Dragon on a lead

Moloch · September 2023

Dominic said:

Enough of this ........I'm not going to be scared of them when I go out
I'm getting a Komodo Dragon on a lead

Don't give the knuckle-draggers ideas, because that's exactly the kind of post-Bully penile substitute pet that they'd probably go for, if they had enough education to know that such creatures exist.

DrCornelius · September 2023

Dominic said:

Enough of this ........I'm not going to be scared of them when I go out
I'm getting a Komodo Dragon on a lead

I’m going to be dragging an Asian hornets nest around in a tartan shopping trolley . Come at me ya bastards !

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XL Bully Dogs.........

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