XL Bully Dogs.........

ICBM · September 2023

I don't think you'd stand a chance with anything less than a decent combat knife, a lot of determination and some luck - and I think you'd still probably get hurt even if you kill it.

I don't think there's a simple solution, certainly not in the short term. Making owners equivalently criminally responsible for whatever the dog does isn't going to stop a dog attacking someone, even if in the long term it deters them from owning one. It would take a long and involved change in the law to bring that about anyway. Banning the breed without an immediate cull isn't going to make them all go away overnight - and even then the least responsible owners would just hide them. Muzzling in public is only a partial solution at best since it doesn't deal with domestic incidents or escapes.

But I do think there's evidence that this breed is unusually and perhaps uniquely dangerous, and I do reluctantly think that a ban does have to be part of the answer.

digitalscream · September 2023

ICBM said:

I don't think there's a simple solution, certainly not in the short term.

That's the problem - nobody on either side of the political transaction (the people demanding action and the politicians themselves) is looking for anything beyond a short-term solution, when none of the prior short-term solutions have made even the tiniest bit of difference.

Sassafras · September 2023

Even with a Rambo style knife, it's not going to die fast enough to save you from serious damage. An animal like that wouldn't be easy to kill unless you shot it with a bazooka.

Philly_Q · September 2023

Oh come on guys, let's stop going on about fighting enormous vicious dogs with combat knives, complex wrestling moves, keys, pointed sticks etc. It's beginning to sound like the macho bullshit mentality of the people who own these fucking monsters.

The truth is we would all be terrified and ripped to pieces in seconds, or at best horribly mutilated and maimed for life. In that situation none of us would have the presence of mind to fight back even if we could.

ThePrettyDamned · September 2023

It shouldn't be complicated, right? If I have a dog, whether is 20cm tall or 2m tall, and it attacks someone, I should be prosecuted for the actions of the dog.

So if it is a little spaniel and bites an ankle, drawing blood, it's assault or something. A dog that disables someone or leaves scars, gbh. If someone dies as a result of the dog, it's manslaughter.

Does it need to consider the breed? What am I missing?

Sporky · September 2023

Philly_Q said:

Oh come on guys, let's stop going on about fighting enormous vicious dogs with combat knives, complex wrestling moves, keys, pointed sticks etc. It's beginning to sound like the macho bullshit mentality of the people who own these fucking monsters.

The truth is we would all be terrified and ripped to pieces in seconds, or at best horribly mutilated and maimed for life. In that situation none of us would have the presence of mind to fight back even if we could.

The only solution is to wear one of those rigid deep-sea diving suits whenever you're out in public.

Or learn MIND BULLETS.

ICBM · September 2023

Philly_Q said:

Oh come on guys, let's stop going on about fighting enormous vicious dogs with combat knives, complex wrestling moves, keys, pointed sticks etc. It's beginning to sound like the macho bullshit mentality of the people who own these fucking monsters.

The truth is we would all be terrified and ripped to pieces in seconds, or at best horribly mutilated and maimed for life. In that situation none of us would have the presence of mind to fight back even if we could.

That was my point... the *minimum* you would need to stand any chance at all is a weapon which is itself illegal to carry in public, and you'd probably need to pre-empt the attack and have it in your hand already. So in any realistic circumstances, no.

So the only solution is to get rid of the dogs - the question is how. That's the difficult bit, and I don't see an easy or quick option.

ThePrettyDamned said:

It shouldn't be complicated, right? If I have a dog, whether is 20cm tall or 2m tall, and it attacks someone, I should be prosecuted for the actions of the dog.

So if it is a little spaniel and bites an ankle, drawing blood, it's assault or something. A dog that disables someone or leaves scars, gbh. If someone dies as a result of the dog, it's manslaughter.

Does it need to consider the breed? What am I missing?

That's it's reactive - it won't bring back the dead person. You could argue that that sort of penalty will deter people from owning dangerous dogs, but it probably won't - if they don't believe *their* dog is dangerous. In the same way as fairly severe (although in my opinion still not enough) penalties for causing death by dangerous driving doesn't stop some people driving like lunatics - they don't believe it will happen to them.

Kittyfrisk · September 2023

^ And you thought the dog looked alarming...?

Diving Suit Pressure Suit Diving

Cranky · September 2023

darthed1981 said:

BillDL said:

This is all nonsense. As mentioned in this much older comment in a different thread:
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3581959/#Comment_3581959
and in the following comment in this thread:
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3678109/#Comment_3678109
any vicious dog can easily be controlled by grabbing its "hips" and bending its back legs upwards in a physiotherapy / chiropractic / yoga manipulation. The person posting that advice has personally seen it in action and used to great effect.
I suspect that this would take an awful lot of training to perfect though, because a dog's hips are behind the dangerous end of the dog

I'm fairly certain that advice confuses the best way of dealing with an out-of-control dangerous dog (several rounds from a firearm) with trying to entice it to dance a Tango.

Or, as I originally intended, if you’re there when someone else or something else has been attacked by the dog, you could actually be of service by releasing the dogs jaws fairly quickly. Obviously the one being attacked won’t be lifting the hind legs, I don’t see the point in being flippant about that.

Also, despite a dog’s power, it can also be fairly easily suffocated with a firm headlock while staying behind/on top of it. Same with cats (I live in cougar country and have heard tell of it being done by an unarmed hiker).

And there’s always pepper spray.

I don’t mean any of this to say that it’s no big deal or that these dogs should be allowed. I was afraid of dogs for a lot of my life and would definitely be afraid to be around a large bully, they are a legitimate public safety issue. I’m just sharing what I hope is helpful info for those of us composed enough to take action in such circumstances.

Offset · September 2023

Cranky said:
And there’s always pepper spray.

That is a VERY good point.

Sassafras · September 2023

https://www.muscletonebullys.uk/

Look at the gallery. Every single one of those dogs has got cropped ears which is illegal. How come they're allowed to stay in business?
They're breeding genetic freaks while claiming they make wonderful family pets.

munckee · September 2023

ThePrettyDamned said:

It shouldn't be complicated, right? If I have a dog, whether is 20cm tall or 2m tall, and it attacks someone, I should be prosecuted for the actions of the dog.

So if it is a little spaniel and bites an ankle, drawing blood, it's assault or something. A dog that disables someone or leaves scars, gbh. If someone dies as a result of the dog, it's manslaughter.

Does it need to consider the breed? What am I missing?

That’s like saying I should be able to walk down the high street with two uzis and if I don’t pull the triggers everything’s okay.

Dominic · September 2023

Offset said:

Cranky said:
And there’s always pepper spray.

That is a VERY good point.

I only learnt yesterday ,as my daughter was finalising her Uni moving in list ,that carrying Pepper spray/mace carries the same penalty in UK as carrying a gun

Dominic · September 2023

Sassafras said:

https://www.muscletonebullys.uk/

Look at the gallery. Every single one of those dogs has got cropped ears which is illegal. How come they're allowed to stay in business?
They're breeding genetic freaks while claiming they make wonderful family pets.

I've just visited that charming website .........which answers all the debate here
the only dilemma is who to euthanise first........the dogs or the owners

Cranky · September 2023

Dominic said:

Offset said:

Cranky said:
And there’s always pepper spray.

That is a VERY good point.

I only learnt yesterday ,as my daughter was finalising her Uni moving in list ,that carrying Pepper spray/mace carries the same penalty in UK as carrying a gun

That is wild.

I don’t see why anyone would bat an eye at banning specific dog breeds if you all are so keen on banning something like pepper spray.

Dominic · September 2023

Yes we're funny like that.......Mace has always been highly illegal ........because we're British
If one's person is presumed upon by a gang of some opportuning malintents coutured in a garment known to the unwashed masses as a 'Hoodie ' .....and if such unsavoury Rum type fellows demand money or threaten physical violence and/or wield knives we simply give them a jolly stout Biff on the nose !

Offset · September 2023

Dominic said:

Sassafras said:

https://www.muscletonebullys.uk/

Look at the gallery. Every single one of those dogs has got cropped ears which is illegal. How come they're allowed to stay in business?
They're breeding genetic freaks while claiming they make wonderful family pets.

I've just visited that charming website .........which answers all the debate here
the only dilemma is who to euthanise first........the dogs or the owners

That really is Retard Central. Fucking knuckle-dragging bottom feeders.

Dominic · September 2023

Offset said:

Dominic said:

Sassafras said:

https://www.muscletonebullys.uk/

Look at the gallery. Every single one of those dogs has got cropped ears which is illegal. How come they're allowed to stay in business?
They're breeding genetic freaks while claiming they make wonderful family pets.

I've just visited that charming website .........which answers all the debate here
the only dilemma is who to euthanise first........the dogs or the owners

That really is Retard Central. Fucking knuckle-dragging bottom feeders.

I wouldn't have said they were that good.......................................

Sporky · September 2023

Dominic said:

Yes we're funny like that.......Mace has always been highly illegal ........because we're British
If one's person is presumed upon by a gang of some opportuning malintents coutured in a garment known to the unwashed masses as a 'Hoodie ' .....and if such unsavoury Rum type fellows demand money or threaten physical violence and/or wield knives we simply give them a jolly stout Biff on the nose !

The idea is to make it harder fir the muggers to get the stuff.

Cranky · September 2023

Sporky said:

Dominic said:

Yes we're funny like that.......Mace has always been highly illegal ........because we're British
If one's person is presumed upon by a gang of some opportuning malintents coutured in a garment known to the unwashed masses as a 'Hoodie ' .....and if such unsavoury Rum type fellows demand money or threaten physical violence and/or wield knives we simply give them a jolly stout Biff on the nose !

The idea is to make it harder fir the muggers to get the stuff.

I was going to guess that such a law was drafted by MP Rapey McRaperton.

Of South London.

Kittyfrisk · September 2023

Dominic said:

Yes we're funny like that.......Mace has always been highly illegal ........because we're British
If one's person is presumed upon by a gang of some opportuning malintents coutured in a garment known to the unwashed masses as a 'Hoodie ' .....and if such unsavoury Rum type fellows demand money or threaten physical violence and/or wield knives we simply give them a jolly stout Biff on the nose !

I haven't had any problems getting hold of Mace, but I usually prefer the stronger bite of Nutmeg.

Dominic · September 2023

I do like Nutmeg on Junket

darthed1981 · September 2023

Philly_Q said:

Oh come on guys, let's stop going on about fighting enormous vicious dogs with combat knives, complex wrestling moves, keys, pointed sticks etc. It's beginning to sound like the macho bullshit mentality of the people who own these fucking monsters.

The truth is we would all be terrified and ripped to pieces in seconds, or at best horribly mutilated and maimed for life. In that situation none of us would have the presence of mind to fight back even if we could.

Mega-wis.

Three words, ironically recalling the thread where a lot of people were calling the police "doggie murderers" earlier this year.

Armed. Response. Unit.

Dominic · September 2023

You are right about shooting them but that particular case was a bit different

darthed1981 · September 2023

Dominic said:

Sassafras said:

https://www.muscletonebullys.uk/

Look at the gallery. Every single one of those dogs has got cropped ears which is illegal. How come they're allowed to stay in business?
They're breeding genetic freaks while claiming they make wonderful family pets.

I've just visited that charming website .........which answers all the debate here
the only dilemma is who to euthanise first........the dogs or the owners

Just clicked that - horrific - and that's just the spelling and grammar.

The content I have no words for, seriously what the fuck is wrong with people?

TeleMaster · September 2023

For some reason I can't get this link to work here. Why is linking stuff so hard here sometimes?

There's a YouTube video of a breeder calling into Iain Dale's show and he basically says he breeds Bullies to sell to drug dealers.

Go on YouTube and search for Iain Dale Dogs.

WezV · September 2023

Sassafras said:

https://www.muscletonebullys.uk/

Look at the gallery. Every single one of those dogs has got cropped ears which is illegal. How come they're allowed to stay in business?
They're breeding genetic freaks while claiming they make wonderful family pets.

Just shown my wife. She was very angry.

She saw the medical conditions they will have, which is something that pays her wages, but she would rather not see.

She also knows the owners of these dogs will be the ones most likely to be a)uninsured and b) argue directly with the vet practice for the cost of treating their dogs well documented genetic health conditions.

There is not one on that page that won't need surgery on its joints at some point, if it survives long enough. They are breeding animals that cannot survive naturally.

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

Dominic said:

Offset said:

Cranky said:
And there’s always pepper spray.

That is a VERY good point.

I only learnt yesterday ,as my daughter was finalising her Uni moving in list ,that carrying Pepper spray/mace carries the same penalty in UK as carrying a gun

A small bottle of cheap perfume works just as well - what it lacks in range from not being in a pressurized atomizer it more than makes up for in punch, or cheap deodorant and it has to be the cheap stuff as you want as much aluminium oxide in it as possible so not the vegen tear free stuff - same range not as good punch, is a much much better alternative to either mace or CS gas for women in the UK to carry, it's perfectly legal, and in fact practically expected that a women would carry them in her handbag/back pack.

Cranky said:

Dominic said:

Offset said:

Cranky said:
And there’s always pepper spray.

That is a VERY good point.

I only learnt yesterday ,as my daughter was finalising her Uni moving in list ,that carrying Pepper spray/mace carries the same penalty in UK as carrying a gun

That is wild.

I don’t see why anyone would bat an eye at banning specific dog breeds if you all are so keen on banning something like pepper spray.

Try being sprayed by either mace or CS gas - pepper spray, you and everybody within 3-6 feet of you will understand why, it's extremely common for the police officer who is macing or CS gassing you - they're different but have very similar effects, to gas themselves at the same time, even their partners, and require medical attention

Alterlifeson · September 2023

On the pepper spray idea, I've read that it isn't actually that effective once the dog has started the attack or is chomping down on your leg. Again, who's going to have time to get in their back, pull out the spray and use it all before it gets to you.

FYI there is a video of the poor guy who was attacked and died the other day. I've not watched it for obvious reasons but from the comments he was trying to protect his elderly mother who he was out for a walk with. There were a couple of older gentlemen with a stick and a wheelie bin attempting to help but couldn't do much.

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

Alterlifeson said:

On the pepper spray idea, I've read that it isn't actually that effective once the dog has started the attack or is chomping down on your leg. Again, who's going to have time to get in their back, pull out the spray and use it all before it gets to you.

FYI there is a video of the poor guy who was attacked and died the other day. I've not watched it for obvious reasons but from the comments he was trying to protect his elderly mother who he was out for a walk with. There were a couple of older gentlemen with a stick and a wheelie bin attempting to help but couldn't do much.

If you're very very lucky you may just have enough time and warning to brace for impact and to try and deflect - push the dog away. And that's making a lot of assumptions and betting on having the state of mind to not panic and inadvertently make yourself more vulnerable. And this isn't just with the XL Bully, it's the same for any medium to large dog, German shepherd, lab, retriever, staffie, rottie, doberman, husky, collie......

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