Starting out in guitar building - There will be questions!

WezV · July 2023

it's fairly normal and you don't need to do anything at all.

if you do want to correct for it, a compound radius is not needed. you just need to leave the board slightly thicker at the body end than the nut

This is easily done if using a radius router jig as you just prop up the nut end of the board slightly when radiusing. Its harder to do by hand with a sanding block or plane

SteveF · July 2023

Just checked a couple of my guitars - it's there and I'd never noticed. I hadn't really realised how small a difference we are talking over the length of a neck (and presumably the flatter the radius, the less difference). I think for simplicity I will just go with it this time.

Roland · July 2023

It this a Fender style flat neck you could consider glueing the board to the neck first. Then cut fret slots, radius, and check fret-slot depth before shaping neck and fretboard together.

SteveF said:

The main thing that jumps out at me is - radiusing the board that is tapered (whether before or after trimming) will result in the board being thicker at the nut end than the body end. Is this likely to be noticeable?

The fretboard should end up the same thickness all the way down because you’re removing material until the router or sander reaches the top surface at the centre line all along the neck. The fretboard edge will be slightly deeper at the nut, but not noticeably. I’ll do the arithmetic when I can find my sine tables.

SteveF · July 2023

Yes, apologies, I meant the edge at the nut as it's closer to the centre of the curve, rather than the total thickness of the board

SteveF · July 2023

On the ones I've measured (as best I can as it is very fine margins) it seems to be between 1/2mm - 1 mmm

PeteC · August 2023

I only realised this
myself after guitar no.3 but I’ve done several more and not bothered raising the nut end when radiusing the board. All have played absolutely fine.
I must admit the OCD in me wants to see the edge if the board at a uniform thickness all along the side if the neck - maybe on the next build !

SteveF · August 2023

Little bit of progress this evening thicknessing the fretboard. I decided to do it with my No 7 plane rather than letting loose the router sled as I don't have a flattening bit yet. Also enjoying practicing with the hand tools. Came out well.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/9f8f66dc9f04c02f16a7721d658894b471cd3cabdf59c5019b

I then stuck the board to the bag press jig ready for slotting. Just trying to work out a couple of things - seems to be differing opinions.

1. How deep should I initially cut the slots?

2. @TTony is there an easy way to set the height stops on the jig to achieve the desired height that I am not thinking of or is it just a case of trial and error?

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/6227560216952bf247861c1d50353a134ac0a537862f148cd5

TTony · August 2023

It's been a while since I've used that jig (I test drove it for Darren before he launched it).

IIRC, you have to do it by eye. Set those height adjustable side guides so that the spine of the saw rests on the top of the guides when the blade is resting on the fretboard, then adjust them downwards by the depth you want the slot.

Obviously, better to be a mm too deep than a mm not deep enough!

SteveF · August 2023

Ah I think I saw that thread when searching Mark's forum. I did wonder if it was the same Tony

That makes sense. I was just checking I wasn't being daft and missing anything.

SteveRobinson · August 2023

If you want the sides to be consistent height you need to make it slightly thicker at the body end. I put a shim under the nut end when radiusing to lift it relative to the other end.

SteveF · August 2023

I think that (possibly due to my poor developing planing technique), the board has actually ended up approximately 1/2mm thicker at one end which I had decided to leave rather than attempt to correct(it's still straight/flat in all other dimensions) so hopefully that will remain when I radius it.

TTony · August 2023

SteveF said:

Ah I think I saw that thread when searching Mark's forum. I did wonder if it was the same Tony

It was doing Mark's course (twice) that got me started on guitar building.

Got a trip back there later this month, though that's really more to see some old and new friends, not making a guitar!

SteveF · August 2023

TTony said:

SteveF said:

Ah I think I saw that thread when searching Mark's forum. I did wonder if it was the same Tony

It was doing Mark's course (twice) that got me started on guitar building.

Got a trip back there later this month, though that's really more to see some old and new friends, not making a guitar!

Twice? Did you have to have a re-show???

Seriously though, did you do two of the same to make it sink in, or two different styles?

SteveF · August 2023

Slots done

The jig was brilliant. A little fiddly to get set up initially, but once I’d got the guides set to the right height and at the sweet spot between binding and allowing the saw to wobble, it was a breeze. Hard to see with the dark wood

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/9b59f69c8b08eeed86897fe0f2a7d162930d887db27a9a5f7a

Next up was thinning down the neck a little - it was probably a couple of mm too thick, so I tried out the router sled which worked ok and just needed a little cleaning up with a plane. Then I rough cur out the neck with a jigsaw, took it closer to the line with a spindle sander and then used the router table to trim it down to the template. Neck pocket gave a nice tight fit

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/e19e2332c9b4775654985726c95752431c6722d2a3926ad6c3

Almost looks like a guitar! : D

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/e6ad15cafb227c0fcfbc0c498074c4b4358722443e584b72fb

Next, I tapered the fretboard down roughly with the jigsaw and sander, before gluing it to the neck.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/e47881c79c93626a4e4279d90c1c519d2cd32c1b50a6801aa4

Feel like I am rapidly approaching the hard bits now

davros · August 2023

Looks like you're rapidly approaching the most fun bit - neck carving! Well, for me anyway!

Looking really good, and props for sawing your own fret slots - I've cheated and had the supplier slot them for me.

SteveF · August 2023

Thank you. There’s a couple of slight whoopsies in there. When I secured the router plate to the table with the wing nuts I apparently compressed the shims ever so slightly and didn’t notice a very slight lip which caused me to get a slight groove in the neck. You can see it in the last pic above. It’s slight and will mostly be hidden in the neck pocket, but I don’t want to transfer it to the fingerboard when I trim it flush so thinking I maybe need to fill it?

Secondly, pondering how to do the part of the fingerboard edge that overhangs the end of the neck. If i flush trim with the router it won’t work and will try to follow the neck curve. I guess I could flush trim the sides up to the end of the neck and then plane down the last part with a small plane?

davros · August 2023

Yes that's the way I've done it, flush trim the sides and plane/sand the overhang.

TTony · August 2023

That's some pretty impressive progress.

And I'd really not worry too much about the fretboard being 0.5mm different one end to the other. It's the frets being level that's important ...

SteveF said:

TTony said:
It was doing Mark's course (twice) that got me started on guitar building.

Got a trip back there later this month, though that's really more to see some old and new friends, not making a guitar!

Twice? Did you have to have a re-show???

Seriously though, did you do two of the same to make it sink in, or two different styles?

The first one was as simple as could be - solid Ash body, ebony FB on a maple neck, couple of HBs. That one taught me that I actually could make a guitar (my DiY/woodworking skills were completely non-existent).
The second one was SSH config, with a cap. I did that course (6mths later) to learn a bit more about the how & why of guitar building (ie I paid a bit more attention).
The third one was a laminated thru neck, LP shape, with added GK2 pickup. That was (IIRC) 4 years later, which I did as a treat-to-self holiday because I'd enjoyed the first two sessions so much.

SteveF · August 2023

Thanks Tony. I’m sure it is going to be far from
perfect when it’s done but I’ll be happy if it’s playable and not a wall guitar! I’m learning a tonne.

BillDL · August 2023

That is really impressive workmanship, especially with the neck pocket and the fret slots. The neck pocket fit looks as tight as it could possibly be. I wish mine had been as accurate. I went to dry fit a self-made neck to a self-made Tele body and realised the pocket was just over 1mm too wide, so I've had to shim it with veneer both sides. On the other self-made Strat body that I lacquered, I was double-checking the fit to ensure the screw holes in the neck lined up. Really tight fit, but when I pulled the neck back out the pocket it squeaked and chipped up some of the clear coat on the front corner of the pocket that isn't covered by the scratchplate. I've had to drop-fill it with superglue and take the tiniest shaving from the side of the neck pocket that I've ever had to shave out. Can hardly notice the chip-out now that it's sanded and buffed, but my heart sunk.

SteveF · August 2023

Ah thanks Bill. It is nice and snug - I suspect it will come down to the quality of the templates too. I did read somewhere that if the templates don't give a tight fit, you can put some tape around the end of the neck to make it ever so slightly bigger and then shave down if oversize.

SteveF · August 2023

Trimmed up the fingerboard. Ended up using a block plane to do the end parts then sanded the overhang down to 1/4" and rounded the corners slightly.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/c3b797b36f8f24b8e6c5db30a3dc8136b511995a542638a9d9

SteveF · August 2023

So, it's been a tale of ups and downs recently. The paint on this guitar is going to have its work cut out to hide a multitude of sins (if I can get it that far!)

First, the ups. Neck is going really well. I drilled the fingerboard for the dot inlays and installed them before setting up a couple of bits of wood as a track and then sanded the radius into the neck. All went smoothly. I think I will need to deepen the slots quite a bit as they're pretty far down at the edge - I may not have gone deep enough on my initial cuts.

Happy with that. Now to 'fess up.

A few days ago, ill-advisedly as I was shattered from work, I decided to drill the control wiring channels. I didn't get the angle shallow enough with the drill bit and came out of the back of the guitar rather than into the control cavity (d'oh!)

Needless to say I had to walk away and have a little word to myself.

After going through the full five stages of grief, I decided I might as well try and save it (and I am glad I didn't start a new body as you will come to see later......) So, I picked up a drill bit that will cut a dowel from the body offcuts and some Rustins wood filler and did my best. It's not pretty, but it's flat, so won't be seen when painted, I hope.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/a25aac3fc719f4af19c1d6902490be383f8826041dd2a37bc0

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/1008e2732e31d08b68e6a3a729d89937a14302484dd45e53a5

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/f046c1feb195b546e41b70b32334524716cffed1f93256e453

The hole is now re-drilled. In to the cavity this time. Onwards and upwards. OR NOT.

Next up, I decided I would drill the rest of the holes in the body, so I put the bridge in place to check the positions for the string through holes (now that I have done more research, I know that YOU know exactly where this is going....)

You may have noticed in the pictures above, the nice snazzy but not very big Bosch bench drill press I have. It was bought to drill out enclosures for effects pedals and a very good job it does too. It also has a nifty digital depth guide which was brilliant for the dot inlays and an easy to use fence that made drilling the tuner holes straight a breeze. What it won't do is reach the holes where the bridge goes on a telecaster body.

What I didn't do was ask here for advice, and I should have, because I know for a fact that you would have advised against what I did. I decided that I had a steady hand and could do it by hand... I'm sure you can guess how that went.

There was I, looking proudly at the nice straight line of holes that I had made in the front of the body. And then I turned it over. Car crash. Not even useable as some of the holes had wandered too close together to be able to put the ferrules next to each other. I forgot to get a pic, but I am sure you can imagine.

I drilled the holes out to 8mm, plugged them with dowels and cut them flush. I will use more Rustin's filler today to hopefully get them nice and smooth again and needless to say there is a press on the way with more throat depth (180mm which I am led to believe from searching through old threads should be enough for anything in guitar building).

Going forward, I have seen a method that involves using the bridge to guide the holes, drilling them part way through from the front and then turning over and using a guide pin lined up with the centre of the drill bit to index with the front of the holes and meeting up from the back. This seems to look relatively straight forward - is this what you guys would use or would you recommend something else?

Kalimna · August 2023

Very briefly, good work on the neck

Looks very neat.
Regarding the body, ive lost count of the number of times Ive had a wandering drill bit, or gone through the back or front. So dont worry about that.
For drilling through the back, Id be tempted to rout a rear access cavity (like a Les Paul) for controls and put a cover on. Even if you have already routed the front for pickups etc, it might still be handy and can be called weight relief.
As for the string-through holes, yep it's not straghtforward. Ive only done it once, and used the pin-registering method. Its a bit of a faff setting up, but works a treat. If i get chance later i'll dig up some photo's I have of my build (on a Flying V, no less!)

Either way, good luck with the rest of the build

Adam

WezV · August 2023

Yeah, even with a big drill press I do the outer 2 first and drill the rest halfway before flipping and remarking.

I then use a separate thick template for ferrule holes, so if the string holes have wandered a bit I can still correct

I showed the process for doing them with a hand drill here on a kit challenge build - although I did use the drill press for a template but the basic idea was to make a thick template first
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/18377/finished-wezv-tele-build/p6

If it makes you feel better, look at some vintage teles. They can be all over the place on those too

SteveF · August 2023

Thanks both, that does make me feel better!

@WezV ;Do you use a metal template for the ferrule holes or is thick wood sufficient to keep the bit aligned?

WezV · August 2023

i tend to stick with wooden templates for most things

TTony · August 2023

Ahhhhh, the "I've got 10mins, I'll just quickly ..." job.

Inevitably leads to mistakes. My worst one led me to putting the body aside for over a year whilst I worked out how to remedy the mistake. So, don't worry, yours won't even be visible under the paint.

String through holes - I've had that problem too, and followed Wez' advice on drilling the outer 2 first, then flipping over and use the outside 2 holes to make sure the other 4 are at least in a straight line and equally spaced. They generally meet up in the middle of the body, close enough to thread a string through.

Strangely, I've also had success using a straight hole guide and a hand drill. I didn't expect that to work, but it avoided the bit wander that you get with a drill press. This sort of thing ...

Image: https://www.kregtool.com/dw/image/v2/BDZM_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-master-kreg/default/dwca7e4b32/images/hi-res/KDG-6000-Feature-08.jpg

And another cheat, which I think actually looks better, is to use a ferrule block on the back. Then you only have to drill half way through the body to reach the recess for the ferrule block, and the end result looks neater too (IMHO!).

https://graingerguitarparts.com/products/grainger-string-ferrule-block-6-string-105mm-spacing

Image: https://isteam.wsimg.com/ip/95e59a19-4477-11e6-b1c5-14feb5d41b49/ols/32_original/:/rs=w:600,h:600

PeteC · August 2023

Weve all been there ! It will be fine once redone - Ive made myself 4 Teles now and the best sounding one has the misaligned ferrule holes ! I too now use the “outside two” then halfway drill method. The rest of the build looks really good. The neck and fretboard work is really excellent

WezV · August 2023

@Ttony isn't wrong about the string block. it can also be used as as a fix for misaligned ferrules by making a wooden one

A couple of my older guitars have the feature of an inlaid ebony string block. One with just the ebony, one with ferrules added after. Obviously it was done for tonal reasons and definitely not covering a mistake

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Starting out in guitar building - There will be questions!

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