Starting out in guitar building - There will be questions!

SteveF · July 2023

Thanks @Kalimna Looks good to me. Fast becoming a fan of Axminster - they seem to do some reasonable quality kit for a decent price. Most of my stuff has come from there.

SteveF · July 2023

A little bit of progress after work today. The tow parts of the body were ever so slightly different thicknesses, so had a step in the middle when joined. Also both bits were a bit thicker than the 1.75 inches that the guitar calls for. I don't have a thicknesses, so did my best go at flattening and thicknessing the body blank with a 4 1/2 plane.

It was quite hard to do by hand, especially with my lack of woodworking experience, but I think it is there. I am going to double check tomorrow that it's not only flat but parallel and just over 1.75 all the way round but I am reasonably happy.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/87e1d5d58f2d572d581805f44f9be62816e35b72649b582239

It's not half an ugly bit of wood, but it will be painted so that doesn't matter.

My next decision is whether to do the routing first, or cut out the body first. I have seen it suggested both ways. What are the pros/cons of each?

It would seem that routing first would leave the most wood, especially around the neck pocket, to keep the router square. The only downside I can foresee would be that it could leave some fragile bits next to the neck pocket that would be easy to damage if cutting out afterwards - especially as I don't have a bandsaw so will be cutting out with a jigsaw, getting closer with the spindle sander and then using a router to chase the template to finalise the edge. I think with the template below, I should still have plenty of support for the router, so I think I am leaning towards cutting out the shape first.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/c86a4f848503315d76de934ad0d0af81a908bf5143abcc88ce

Roland · July 2023

I’d do the outside first. A small tear-out or chip can often be resolved by re-orientating the body template. If you’ve already routed the cavities then there’s less leeway for movement. When it comes to cavities it’s useful to have a collection of individual templates, each with more surrounding space than you get from a body template.

SteveF · July 2023

Thanks @Roland that makes sense.

SteveF · July 2023

A day of painful lessons today.

1. Jigsaw blades tilt when you go round corners. Even ones that aren't very tight. If you are going to cut out a guitar body with a jigsaw, leave more space than you think you need near the cut line. (Or buy a bandsaw - this is what I will do for the future!)

2. Think! Double check your router depth. Especially when riding a template.

3. When routing a guitar body, actually pay attention to what you have read online. Grain direction matters.

4. Keep your workspace clean. Small shavings of wood will dent a body when you clamp it between the body and the bench.

Good news is, I have a body. Bad news is there is a chunk out of it. Good news, still got 10 fingers etc.

Lesson 1. I am glad @Roland told me to cut the body shape out first. My jigsaw blade tilted enough that it was inside the body line on the bottom so even after trying to sand square on the spindle sander, there was still a bit inside the line. I was able to just reposition the template enough to rout it square. The centre line is now slightly (maybe 1 degree) askew of the glueline at the neck end but no issues with that - barely noticeable and it will be painted anyway.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/c3f16a992764e65d495f3154691278b1d62442f51b8e1e6b4f

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/82e2a1eada3eb950db4cc7bb0b5182c8107ac63baf2878edd9

Next up Lesson 2. (The big one).

I’d set up the router to follow the body template for the edge and then thought it felt a little unstable with just over half the router overhanging the edge. I was worried about keeping it perpendicular, so I thought I would attach the extended base so it could rest on more of the body and keep it square. Unfortunately I didn’t think about the thickness of the baseplate and it raised the router bit enough that the bearing was now above the template.

SteveF · July 2023

D'oh, post too long apparently.

SteveF · July 2023

cue tearing straight into the body and template (glad I made copies!) and much swearing.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/673ed32fce75df657f4ffbd7b9643c388f5102f6a66a3a6250

I figured I would carry on and finish - as practice if nothing else. Mostly everything else went to plan so I now have a shaped body that should just need a round over on the edges and a bit of sanding.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/58194646694bad362a31ca3133e9a03eb8877d88920b1a3486

I have three options. One is order a new body blank (I went cheap for a reason!) and redo it. The second is to create a flat area where the chunk is missing (see below). It’s near where the jack would be so I could probably make it look reasonable.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/9aab061440ba1776dd6ec9eb606eb5eeccb0ab96552d25bf9a

The third option I think is to plane the section flat and glue on a small offcut before rerouting the body outline in that area. It shouldn't be seen if I do it right. The question here is do I just flatten that small section diagonally or should I be sawing off a vertical line and gluing a whole section there?

SteveF · July 2023

Lesson 3 - I got some tear out on the edges.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/2bfd70e62f1e128dd3945bbb73f3d37377d4c9bd52d79981f6

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/9fd35a0d48c8406e52300226ce548af4a1b55accc3f9aaeb73

What I can't seem to get my head around is the whole routing direction thing. I was under the impression that I needed to always go against the rotation of the bit, so from above it rotates clockwise and I should go anticlockwise around the body. From what I have read, failure to do so will undoubtedly lead to amptuation or decapitation. I have seen this diagram online, but I can't see how I can do this without going the wrong/unsafe way?

SteveF · July 2023

Finally lesson 4, just irritating.

I managed to get a small shaving of wood between the body and the bench when I clamped it down for routing. It caused a dent and I think it is deeper than will sand out. I assume I can just fill it when I am prepping for painting. Can I just use Rustin's grain filler or do I need something else for this kind of thing?

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/665669a57ef73960db36fd5e64326dae5011ced3573ba96c77

SteveF · July 2023

A frustrating day, but lots of good lessons learned. Also convinced the wife I'll be needing a bandsaw

SteveF · July 2023

Also think I need to sort out a table for the router. I don't fancy trying to do the neck outline with a hand-held router, given how narrow it is and how wide the router is. I forsee difficulty keeping it square.

Roland · July 2023

Someone once told me that the skill of woodworking is recovering from your mistakes. There’s a lot to be learned from continuing with them current blank, so I wouldn’t throw it away. You’re not trying to make a vintage correct guitar, so I’d adjust the body shape to lose the bit the router has eaten. You could as you show, and cut straight across, in which case I’d curve the ends of your cut. When I made a similar error I was able to move the template, and use it to cut a curved line rather than a straight one.

That dent may well steam out.

SteveF · July 2023

Thanks @Roland.

I’d already moved the template as much as I was able to when sorting the mishap with the jigsaw unfortunately. I am definitely going to continue with this body. We learn and grow.

I think I am leaning towards gluing a piece on. I’m not after vintage correct but I think the big flat section would bug me. Or more accurately, knowing I had not taken the opportunity to try and fix it would bug me.

I hadn’t realised that you could steam out a dent. I assume a damp towel and an iron? Off to YouTube I go!

TTony · July 2023

SteveF said:

I hadn’t realised that you could steam out a dent. I assume a damp towel and an iron? Off to YouTube I go!

Your soldering iron would do the job - you only need to heat a small area. I've used that trick a few times ...

As you're going to paint the body, gluing a piece on to replace the tear out wouldn't be visible, but it might be tricky to clamp the new piece in place. Make sure you can work out how to position the clamps *before* doing any more prep work (ie cutting more off the body!).

I'm not sure I've made any guitars without encountering some sort of learning experience - it's what makes this hobby so frustrating, and so much fun

SteveF · July 2023

Thanks Tony. I think I have a corresponding curved offcut from the other side that I am hoping I will be able to use as a caul and clamp to the flat side of that (for that reason it might be easier to plane the flat vertically rather than the diagonal).

Onwards!

Kalimna · July 2023

I agree with Tony and Roland - adapting the dent and router mishap rather than glueing on an offcut would be much easier. Clamping neatly will be difficult - not just on the offcut side of the body but also on the opposite side where the other part of the clamp goes.
If it was me, id carve a recess/cutaway (like that found on the treble side of PRS's to remove the dent. And for the router mishap, re-rout by shifting the jig or add a bevel or round-over.
I certainly would not bin the blank.
As above, I dnt think there's a single build of mine without errors. The only difference now is that I can hide them better

The only mistake ive not fixed (and more as a reminder to measure twice, cut once etc.) is a ukulele fretboard in ebony that i cut the fret slots the wrong way along the taper. Even then I could have filled in the slots and re-cut.

Good luck

WezV · July 2023

We've all been there.

If using a jigsaw to cut the body its worth drilling some relief holes fully through the blank first.

Dents steam out, mostly.

Router mishaps can be fixed.

Route it straight and glue in a squared off block, rather than trying to cut a bit of wood to fit the curved shape

WezV · July 2023

Your router tear out is fairly minor and will be solved by roundovers and sanding.

Some woods do it more than others, but following the diagram you posted is key, even if it goes against the router direction. That matters less with a sharp fresh bit.... grain direction matters a lot, and you will learn to read it if you do more

SteveF · July 2023

Thanks all. Decided to go for the repair. Worst that can happen is I wreck the blank but then I’ll just get to practice all over again

So I’ve cut the offending section off and planed it smooth. Found a straight grained piece of the offcut to glue on.

Figured I’d do a dry clamp up to make sure it would work (I had practiced before cutting off the section but it’s always easier without a small piece that wants to move!) I used a small bar clamp to hold it still while I attached an F clamp across the body, using the inner curve of an offcut to go against the body and allow me a flat surface to clamp on (still not got around to ordering sash clamps as I thought I’d not need them til next build!) then used a couple of g clamps into the control cavity too. I might ding the inside of the cavity slightly but that’s not an issue really.

Added the glue and then everything got a whole lot slippier.

Either way, good squeeze out around all four sides and made sure it stayed straight. All glued up and all I can do now is wait. Once it’s properly cured I’ll trim it down and then rout that part of the outline again. Hopefully it will be unnoticeable. Fingers crossed!

SteveF · July 2023

Thanks too all for all of the advice. It is very much appreciated!

WezV · July 2023

There you go. Solid fix, and one you won't see once painted.

SteveF · July 2023

Decided to take a short break from the build while I waited for the repair to cure, so I threw together a bench top router table with some leftover wood I had from when I made my bench. Or at least it will be when the insert plate arrives from amazon.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/6304912b573adef0d909c6cd11c95ac5f54886c64ec895ff84

I still have some MDF left over so I might make a fence and rout it for T-track down the line, but I am not sure whether I really need that for my purposes. I see a lot of the YouTube woodwork guys doing that, but when I have watched people doing guitars they haven't been using one.

It's fairly solid so shouldn't move around but I have made it so it can be easily clamped to the bench just in case.

SteveF · July 2023

Another thing that popped into my head today.

My template is for a 21 fret neck. I want to do 22 frets, so was planning on just having the usual Fender style overhang. Is there anything I need to watch out for (e.g. are my vintage style templates likely to have the neck pickup in a different spot from a more modern tele)? I assume not, because as far as I am aware, scratch plates are pretty standard.

SteveF · July 2023

From Warmoth's site, it seems fairly straightforward. I guess this is why when I did the Bolt kit, I had to drop the pickup into the cavity and screw it to the plate after the plate had been put onto the guitar under the fretboard overhang.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/c9aef0670108cb00e51c4d0a5953f8461119f94ed49d784be2

WezV · July 2023

You are correct, no difference in pickup position.

SteveF · July 2023

Wonderful

davros · July 2023

These are all mistakes I've made before, generally only once!! All part of the learning process - especially learning how to fix them.

I definitely agree with building a router table it will make climb cuts (the wrong way) safer and easier to control. Just go slow with a shallow cut and a good grip on the workpiece. Routing necks to templates is very difficult with a handheld router.

I would also recommend building a router sled - it will make flattening much easier.

SteveF · July 2023

Thanks @davros it’s reassuring to hear that these things have all happened to others too!

I did think that the handholding of a router to do the neck would be very difficult, even just doing the slot was pretty tricky, so I imagine the edge work would be really easy to mess up.

Any more info/example uses about what you mean for flattening with a router sled? Do you literally mean hovering the router above the body/neck/fingerboard and going back and forth to gradually flatten/thickness the workpiece? That feels like it would take a long time? Although I guess it would give easier and more consistent results than using a hand plane.

WezV · July 2023

yes, that is what you can use a router thicknesser for. You can do a big one for surfacing a whole body, or a small one for other jobs, Cutting the headstock depth on a fender style neck for instance.

I just made this small one which is getting used for a lot of small thicknessing jobs

davros · July 2023

This is my sled. Very useful for flattening and thicknessing. I have a wider 22mm flattening bit to make it quicker but a smaller bit works fine.

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Starting out in guitar building - There will be questions!

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