The F1 thread

Cols · July 2023

stickyfiddle said:

And great to see DR a chunk ahead of Tsunoda even after being at the back after lap one.

I did feel DR was very unfortunate to be a victim of Zhou’s bad start and subsequent impromptu game of dodgems which dropped him to the back.

But there he worryingly stayed for a long time until the pit stop strategies shook out and it transpired that he was babying his tyres to pop him up to 13th. Good for him to outqualify Tsunoda and finish ahead of him, but it was steady rather than swashbuckling.

RandallFlagg said:
Boring as shit, we've a'll drifted away from telly and sitting outside in the sunshine in Norfolk wishing it's wasn't raining in Manchester so England could keep The Ashes alive...Verstappen 20+ seconds lead, yawn...

It’s a bit of a damning indictment on this season that the mood is “I wish the cricket was on, it would be more exciting than this”. But yes, the race was done before the first corner after which Max romped off into the distance.

stickyfiddle · July 2023

I don’t think that AT car is capable of delivering swashbuckling…!

fretmeister · July 2023

Cols said:

stickyfiddle said:

And great to see DR a chunk ahead of Tsunoda even after being at the back after lap one.

I did feel DR was very unfortunate to be a victim of Zhou’s bad start and subsequent impromptu game of dodgems which dropped him to the back.

But there he worryingly stayed for a long time until the pit stop strategies shook out and it transpired that he was babying his tyres to pop him up to 13th. Good for him to outqualify Tsunoda and finish ahead of him, but it was steady rather than swashbuckling.

That car just isn't capable of overtaking anything on even terms. It would even struggle on fresh softs when the car being attacked was on old hards.

DR just has to keep beating Yuki by as much as possible.

chillidoggy · July 2023

Dear Mr. F1,

Please drop this annual Hungarian bore-fest WEF now.

Sincerely,

Chilli.

boogieman · July 2023

chillidoggy said:

Dear Mr. F1,

Please drop this annual Hungarian bore-fest WEF now.

Sincerely,

Chilli.

Nope, it needs to stay. It’s the only chance Lewis gets to be near the front, or even on pole.

stickyfiddle · July 2023

It's pissing down in Belgium, as usual. So noone is pushing in FP1. But it's a sprint so that means Quali this afternoon/evening so god knows what will happen.

Will they get any times on the board? Will they cancel it entirely? Will the race even happen? Will someone die?! These are the questions we apparently still have to worry about at Spa in the 21st century...

stickyfiddle · July 2023

In other news, Otmar & Alan Permane are both leaving Alpine on Monday. What's the betting Renault HQ sells the team (again) in the near future?

And Pat Fry is Williams' new CTO, which could be great for both parties.

Cols · July 2023

stickyfiddle said:

It's pissing down in Belgium, as usual. So noone is pushing in FP1. But it's a sprint so that means Quali this afternoon/evening so god knows what will happen.

FIA has confirmed that if it’s too wet for qualifying then the grid will be set in championship order.

Which is great news for Perez, as he won’t have the mental stress of qualifying and, even better, Max is getting a 5 place grid drop. Pole for Sergio if it continues to lash down.

Dontgiveupyourdayjob · July 2023

Seems ok at the minute for the F2 qualy. It's at that tantalising "who's got the balls to try it on slicks?" drying track stage.

Cols · July 2023

stickyfiddle said:

In other news, Otmar & Alan Permane are both leaving Alpine on Monday. What's the betting Renault HQ sells the team (again) in the near future?

And Pat Fry is Williams' new CTO, which could be great for both parties.

I’m wondering if losing Pat Fry to Williams was the last straw for Otmar’s career, or if it’s rats/sinking ship.

stickyfiddle · July 2023

Cols said:

stickyfiddle said:

In other news, Otmar & Alan Permane are both leaving Alpine on Monday. What's the betting Renault HQ sells the team (again) in the near future?

And Pat Fry is Williams' new CTO, which could be great for both parties.

I’m wondering if losing Pat Fry to Williams was the last straw for Otmar’s career, or if it’s rats/sinking ship.

Feels like an un-runnable team tbh. Just a bunch of chaos on all fronts and leadership not making anything better. Ferrari only look worse because they have the weight of expectation on them.

chillidoggy · July 2023

Cols said:

stickyfiddle said:

It's pissing down in Belgium, as usual. So noone is pushing in FP1. But it's a sprint so that means Quali this afternoon/evening so god knows what will happen.

FIA has confirmed that if it’s too wet for qualifying then the grid will be set in championship order.

Which is great news for Perez, as he won’t have the mental stress of qualifying and, even better, Max is getting a 5 place grid drop. Pole for Sergio if it continues to lash down.

I can’t imagine Max is going to be too worried about any grid drop, his RB is fast both in the dry and the wet. But I’m hoping it might lead to some more interesting racing at the front end, always assuming the FIA don’t pull the plug.

And Ferrari have a chance to demonstrate that they’ve sorted out their strategy team…..

Cols · July 2023

stickyfiddle said:

Cols said:

stickyfiddle said:

In other news, Otmar & Alan Permane are both leaving Alpine on Monday. What's the betting Renault HQ sells the team (again) in the near future?

And Pat Fry is Williams' new CTO, which could be great for both parties.

I’m wondering if losing Pat Fry to Williams was the last straw for Otmar’s career, or if it’s rats/sinking ship.

Feels like an un-runnable team tbh. Just a bunch of chaos on all fronts and leadership not making anything better. Ferrari only look worse because they have the weight of expectation on them.

Alain Prost certainly hasn't held back - he lays the blame squarely at the door of former Alpine CEO Rossi. Speaking to L'Equipe:

“I simply believe that you have to look at history to understand what went wrong. If you look at the great successes of the last thirty years, you will find a simple structure, detached from an industrial organisation chart, built around three or four strong personalities, coupled with a champion driver.

“Laurent Rossi is the most beautiful example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, that of an incapable leader who thinks he can overcome his incompetence by his arrogance and lack of humanity towards his troops.

“The one who was Alpine’s boss for 18 months thought he understood everything from the start when he was totally mistaken. His management broke the momentum that had been put in place since 2016 to reach these podiums and this victory."

stickyfiddle · July 2023

Prost is spot on. The Renault execs clearly just don't understand F1,. You only have to look at all the successful teams over the last 30 years. Every single one of them has a duo at the top who drives the success over the long term and they can only do that with complete control.

Williams - Frank & Patrick Head
McLaren - Ron & Gordon Murray then Newey
Benneton - Flav & Brawn
Ferrari - Todt & Brawn
RB - Horner, Marko & Newey
Merc - Toto/Brawn & Lauda

Chucking out bosses every 18 months is never ever going to work. That said, you do need to have the right folks in those positions, which is also something Renault have consistently failed to do (Boullier, a relatively-inexperienced Vasseur, Stoll/Abitboul, Bukowski, Otmar). McLaren now look clearly above them once again, and I can easily see Williams taking that step next year with Vowles & Fry running things

stickyfiddle · July 2023

Phenomenal from Piastri! Not sure what Merc were doing

66% chance of rain for the next couple of hours and same time tomorrow so could still be a soggy sprint & race

fretmeister · July 2023

That penalty on LH was bullshit. Both cars having a wobble in the wet, side by side.

stickyfiddle · July 2023

fretmeister said:

That penalty on LH was bullshit. Both cars having a wobble in the wet, side by side.

Yeah, an enjoyable race aside from that.

*If anyone from F1 is reading please note it was good because it was at Spa in the wet, not because it was a sprint...

sinbaadi · July 2023

Hamilton under-steered wide and hit Perez when Perez had left him more than enough room.

Definitely Hamilton's mistake but as usual it's more that I would rather see consistency than more or less leniency.

How is it that it feels like they are always making it up as they go along?

Penn · July 2023

sinbaadi said:

Hamilton under-steered wide and hit Perez when Perez had left him more than enough room.

Definitely Hamilton's mistake but as usual it's more that I would rather see consistency than more or less leniency.

How is it that it feels like they are always making it up as they go along?

Because they are. Giving Lewis a penalty for that was stupid. It was difficult conditions it wasn’t that he braked late and tried to dive down the inside. The car was unstable as it was wet. The real issue for the FIA is that he hit a Red Bull. Max parks a car on Hamiltons head at Monza, no repercussions. Abu Dhabi 2021 the FIA handed a world title to Red Bull by changing the rules to help. They gave them a slap on the wrist when they were caught cheating the budget cap. They can do no wrong and Hamilton broke the first rule of FIA club. Don’t mess with a RB.

Perez often moves around under breaking and just isn’t a particularly good or consistent driver. He shouldn’t have even been on the same bit of track as Hamilton. He’s as much to blame because he’s a bit shite.

chillidoggy · July 2023

My immediate reaction when I saw Hamster collide with Perez was that he’d probably get a penalty for it.

I’ve just read that the collision put a hole in Perez’s side pod and damaged the floor, causing his retirement.

Cols · July 2023

Racing incident, with the balance of the blame lying with Hamilton. He’d got enough alongside Perez to expect room, which Perez gave him.

Sergio was under no obligation to yield the position, and Lewis just understeered into him. Not intentional, but if you had to lay the blame at anyone’s door I’m afraid it was Hamilton’s. And I do feel bad for Perez that his race was effectively ended as a result.

But worth a 5s penalty? Absolutely not. It wasn’t aggressive, or an opportunistic lunge, or anything other than an understeer contact that had the misfortune to damage Perez’s sidepod.

Far more troubling was the absolute chaos of unsafe releases in the pit lane which barely raised an eyebrow from the stewards. F1 is sleepwalking into there being a major incident one of these days with a pit crew getting mown down.

fretmeister · July 2023

Ah. Derek Warwick is on the stewards team this weekend.

The same man who owns a Honda Dealership and once called Max the "Great white hope" and despite it being recorded he tried to deny he ever said it.

stickyfiddle · July 2023

fretmeister said:

Ah. Derek Warwick is on the stewards team this weekend.

The same man who owns a Honda Dealership and once called Max the "Great white hope" and despite it being recorded he tried to deny he ever said it.

And the guy who was on the team for the AD 2021 farce.

I agree with @Cols - definitely Ham's fault on balance, but definitely not a penalty considering how many times Max has pushed people completely off and got away with nothing. In the dry it might have been a fair judgement.

Big +1 to the chaos in the pitlane - I was expdecting at least 4 or 5 drivers to get penalties. They're rightly terrified of Spa killing an F1 driver in the rain but don't seem to give a shit about the 200+ people in the pitlane

menamestom · July 2023

Good F2 race this morning in changing conditions.

Cols · July 2023

I’m not sure if that’s entirely fair on Derek Warwick, former president of the British Racing Drivers Club and who describes Hamilton as “the greatest champion of all time”. With that kind of background, I don’t think he can be cast as a besotted Verstappen fanboy.

chillidoggy · July 2023

Any word on the weather for the GP? A mixture would spice things up a bit!

stickyfiddle · July 2023

Different weather forecasts suggest anywhere between 15 and 70% chance for the next 4 hours, so who knows. I'd suggest given it's a very hilly Belgium it's good odds of being a bit wet at some point.

guitars4you · July 2023

Looking forward to seeing an actual race today with Max starting down the grid - It should make it interesting and competitive for at least 1/2 the race or more

Max racing off on his own is mighty boring as a spectacle

stickyfiddle · July 2023

guitars4you said:

Looking forward to seeing an actual race today with Max starting down the grid - It should make it interesting and competitive for at least 1/2 the race or more

Max racing off on his own is mighty boring as a spectacle

I don't know - that RB (at least MV's) is so damn quick I still think the questions are "what lap does he take the lead?" and "how many seconds will he win by?" but at least it has a chance of not being straightforward

menamestom · July 2023

Yeah down the Kemmel Straight he will pick off a car a lap under DRS. The F2’s had the added difficulty of it being damp off line, whereas it should be dry later, at least for the start. I’ve given up hope of anything happen to give us a different winner but the race should be good from 2nd onwards.

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