Any Motörbike riders here?

sinbaadi · June 2023

I think making helmet wearing optional would be bad. I don't know any stats for the UK but even from just a purely economic perspective they save the US taxpayer billions of dollars per year.

TheBigDipper · June 2023

sinbaadi said:

I think making helmet wearing optional would be bad. I don't know any stats for the UK but even from just a purely economic perspective they save the US taxpayer billions of dollars per year.

Where did you get your US stats from, then? Link? Not challenging you, just interested in the numbers.

sinbaadi · June 2023

It was a US highways case study, I remember reading it a long time ago and there are probably newer ones
https://one.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/safebike/costs.html

Dominic · June 2023

I think helmets should be a personal choice as a matter of principle but I would always choose to wear one.
My brother came off without a helmet whilst away on holiday....it was a low speed scooter accident but he got a fractured skull and was slightly brain- damaged after fitting from the concussion.A helemet would have prevented that.
The whole argument about whether a £800 helmet is going to save you better than a £250 one is a bit ridiculous .......if the impact is severe enough to put that to the test the most likely cause of death would be a ruptured Aorta or broken neck and no helmet is going to prevent that.
One of the big helmet cost issues is weight and design ........good cooling air flow and a light shell are much more comfortable .
Peripheral vision is also a big issue for me when using a full-face.

Haych · June 2023

Personally, I think mandatory helmets are a good thing, same as with seat belts. If it wasn't mandatory to wear helmets and seat belts I honestly think the burden on the health system would be much greater, there would be more deaths, more people needing intensive hospital treatment and more people needing permanent care, so I'm all for it.

I'd never spend £800 on a helmet, my limit is £500 and that's up there. I've just purchased an Arai Quantic to replace the RPHA 70 that bounced off the tarmac in Belgium and it's worth the money just for the fit, it's the best fitting and most comfortable helmet I've ever tried on, but it's still firm around my noggin and face. But it's not without its flaws.

I know a guy who has a nice collection of helmets and every time he goes out he chooses a different helmet from the last one he wore.

Dominic · June 2023

I've got an LS2 for £120 and that's extremely comfortable

Devil#20 · June 2023

Some good points here and in the videos and links. I've decided to err on the side of caution and bin the AGV. I'm not an everyday rider so more weekend warrior and short journey user. The AGV gets less use so even at 10yo it looks pretty new and the cheek pads are still quite resilient. But it is 10yo so reading all the above it's going. I might dissect it first in the interest of science or maybe throw it out the upstairs window. My HJC RPHA is coming up 7 yo now so I'm keeping that for now and use it for short journeys pootling down to the shops 'n' that (There may be another associated post on this topic soon btw).

The law on helmets and helmet standards is a strange one really. As @TheBigDipper points out Sikh's are OK to ride bikes wearing a turban (which will give next to no protection compared to even a cheap bike helmet. I don't think laws should make exception for religious beliefs because we've seen cases where that isn't applied consistently. There should be no ambiguity or exceptions in law anyway. Anyway, that's another argument.

@Haych I'm looking at Arai as a replacement and it's north of £800. I'll have a look at the one you've got because I'm not convinced an £800+ helmet built to the same standard is any safer than a cheaper one of the same standard. Where's the best place to buy a new helmet nowadays. I've always used SportsBikeShops in the past.

Dominic · June 2023

I think SportsBike Shops is probably best.......helpful in store too

Kittyfrisk · June 2023

Actor Treat Williams killed after his bike was hit by an SUV (not many details yet, but sounds like the SUV turned across him causing a classic T-bone crash).
Yet it is a Motorcycle accident? Sounds like victim blaming to me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65886521
Be safe out there...

Haych · June 2023

Devil#20 said:
@Haych I'm looking at Arai as a replacement and it's north of £800. I'll have a look at the one you've got because I'm not convinced an £800+ helmet built to the same standard is any safer than a cheaper one of the same standard. Where's the best place to buy a new helmet nowadays. I've always used SportsBikeShops in the past.

I got mine from SportsBikeShop too, I've had a couple of helmets from there now. I don't live too far away from their Bristol branch so it's not an arduous task to nip in and try a few on before committing to buy one.

The first time I tried on the Quantic was in Fowlers, though, during the middle of the pandemic. It immediately impressed me with how comfy and well fitting it was, but I couldn't afford it at the time (or justify it to be fair).

I have quite a small head and usually I'm on the border between small and medium in most manufacturers sizing systems so it can be a bit of a gamble which size will fit best. Small is usually too tight and uncomfortable but "fits" in terms of how a helmet should fit for safety. A medium feels much more comfortable to wear but will then not "fit" as a helmet should for safety.

The Arai in size small (56cm) just worked perfectly in every respect, it's firm and well fitted with no gaps anywhere but doesn't feel overly tight or cause my face to ache (like the HJC) and has no uncomfortable pressure points (like AGV in the same size would).

So on that basis it's a great lid, I can think of nothing worse or unsafe than a poorly fitting or painfully uncomfortable helmet.

But, get one from any good retailer, just try them on for fit if you can first.

jaytmon · June 2023

Just for info regarding purchasing helmets, there is no import VAT on them if buying from abroad, so if you know which one fits that’s always an option.

Been reading this with interest as I’ve been looking into the shelf life of helmets recently too. I don’t think I’d want to risk a 10 year old helmet, but then my current one has rolled off the seat and hit the ground, so according to some I should replace it because of that, yet I carried on using it. (I have just ordered a new one fwiw).

Haych said:

I have quite a small head and usually I'm on the border between small and medium in most manufacturers sizing systems so it can be a bit of a gamble which size will fit best. Small is usually too tight and uncomfortable but "fits" in terms of how a helmet should fit for safety. A medium feels much more comfortable to wear but will then not "fit" as a helmet should for safety.

Fit is tricky - I have a RPHA-70 in medium, which fit snugly when I tried it on, yet after an hour’s riding would get jaw ache from the cheek pad compression, even after time to bed in. I eventually ordered replacement pads that were 5mm smaller which helped.

I’ve definitely noticed a qualitative difference between helmets at a different price point - the Shoei I had before the HJC just felt a bit more solidly put together. Like custom shop vs (higher end) off the shelf. Conversely the LS2 I bought feels more like a MIM. No idea if that perceived build quality translates into levels of protection as well. £800 seems a bit steep mind, surely that’s a race model? Historically I’ve purchased helmets at the Motorcycle Live bike show, can get some really good deals there.

Haych · June 2023

jaytmon said:
Fit is tricky - I have a RPHA-70 in medium, which fit snugly when I tried it on, yet after an hour’s riding would get jaw ache from the cheek pad compression, even after time to bed in. I eventually ordered replacement pads that were 5mm smaller which helped.

Coincidentally, I had the same issue with my RPHA-70 in small. After an hour my jaw would be painfully killing me because the cheek pads were compressing my face so much.

I think that helmet cost me about £320 which is not an insignificant price. In test fitting in the shop it was fine but after an hour I couldn't bear it. I don't see why I should have to spend another £50 on replacement cheek pads, although I did.

I couldn't find any RPHA-70 cheek pads mind, they were all sold out. I took a gamble that HJC used common parts and ordered some RPHA-11 cheek pads and they do fit, even though they are labelled specifically.

Then, after buying the replacement pads, a week later I bounced the thing off the tarmac when I had my crash. To be fair the helmet is probably still ok but I'm not sure I want to take the chance, or pay another £50 to have it tested.

It's a very good looking helmet but otherwise, noisy and uncomfortable.

jaytmon · June 2023

@Haych that mirrors my experience exactly! Took a while to begrudgingly stump up the extra £50 for cheek pads. I’ve gone back to Shoei (GT-Air 2), hoping it arrives in time for trip abroad next month.

Haych said:

It's a very good looking helmet but otherwise, noisy and uncomfortable.

That is another element for discussion - noise! I found a YouTube channel where they try and objectively test helmet’s noise levels and the RPHA-70 is one of the quietest they’ve tested along with the GT-Air 2. I’m curious to see how they compare for me when the new lid arrives. I have to ride with earplugs on the Multistrada with the HJC; it’s a bit too noisy otherwise. On the other hand on the Africa Twin I had I generally didn’t need to wear earplugs with the same helmet, so a lot of it must be down to wind protection/turbulence levels. A few years ago I had a Yamaha Tracer - the noise from the screen on that bike was unbearable, much worse that the Ducati.

Haych · June 2023

^ I think I've seen the same channel. Interestingly they stated the RPHA-70 was quieter than the AGV K6. I have both and the K6 is a wonderfully quiet helmet compared the the RPHA-70.

If I remove the screen and go naked, the K6 is almost whisper quiet in clean air. With the HJC it doesn't matter if the screen is removed or not, it's just bloody noisy.

I use in-ears now hooked up to the Cardo, not that I use the Cardo much, but they are much better ear plugs for drowning out the noise than anything else I have.

I was shopping for a Shoei when I decided to stump up the extra and go for the Arai. I just don't have a Shoei head shape.

thefez · June 2023

Fairly new rider here (year on 125, 6 months on a 650).

Just did my first mini tour across to Europe and loved it. Only 800 miles return but lovely weather, great sights and feels awesome to have some tunes banging away as you're cruising along.

Was chatting to some guys on the tunnel and they all had 1000cc + bikes (loads of GS1250s). For those of you that ride bigger bikes, what made you want something that big? I feel happy with the Versys 650 but just wondering if most people grow out of them and that's why they go bigger? I'm mainly commuting with the odd ride around Wales or now Europe

Haych · June 2023

^ Dick waving mostly I reckon.

Edit:

OK, maybe that was unfair. They are comfy bikes to ride and have a large luggage carrying capacity - I suppose if you tour a lot and cover long distances that's something to consider.

jaytmon · June 2023

Haych said:

^ I think I've seen the same channel. Interestingly they stated the RPHA-70 was quieter than the AGV K6. I have both and the K6 is a wonderfully quiet helmet compared the the RPHA-70.

If I remove the screen and go naked, the K6 is almost whisper quiet in clean air. With the HJC it doesn't matter if the screen is removed or not, it's just bloody noisy.

I use in-ears now hooked up to the Cardo, not that I use the Cardo much, but they are much better ear plugs for drowning out the noise than anything else I have.

I was shopping for a Shoei when I decided to stump up the extra and go for the Arai. I just don't have a Shoei head shape.

That’s interesting, I did wonder about the accuracy of such tests, and also why the Arai would be (apparently) so noisy.

My head shape is firmly in the Shoei camp, tried Arai on several occasions but without any joy.

jaytmon · June 2023

thefez said:

Fairly new rider here (year on 125, 6 months on a 650).

Just did my first mini tour across to Europe and loved it. Only 800 miles return but lovely weather, great sights and feels awesome to have some tunes banging away as you're cruising along.

Was chatting to some guys on the tunnel and they all had 1000cc + bikes (loads of GS1250s). For those of you that ride bigger bikes, what made you want something that big? I feel happy with the Versys 650 but just wondering if most people grow out of them and that's why they go bigger? I'm mainly commuting with the odd ride around Wales or now Europe

I remember my post test CB500 feeling like a big bike, and the idea of a 600 was a bit intimidating! I did eventually get a ZZR600, then a VFR800, and I think after that I was wanting more torque - tried a zx636r (I am going back a bit!) and reported back to the local dealer that it didn’t feel powerful enough, so they sent me out on a K5 GSXR1000, a pussy cat at low speeds, but fuckme when I accelerated from about 40, I’m pretty sure I bent the laws of physics, and it pulled just as hard from twice that speed. I was laughing in a mixture fear and amazement as my brain tried to catchup with what happened. Never had I experienced anything like that. I was too scared to buy it, but I did end up with a 2006 1050 Speed Triple - I found I loved the lazy torque plus the tall top gear actually made it more relaxing than the street trip I tried before it. The nakedness made 70mph feel like 70mph and probably kept me from being too silly.
A bit like a large turbo diesel vs a naturally aspirated revvy petrol.

Fast forward to today and there probably is a bit of willy waving going on - I take some sort of cross between reassurance and satisfaction that I have a big, fast (and comfortable) bike (1260 Multistrada PP), that is faster than most traffic I see (and waaay more capable than I’ll ever be), is occasionally intimidating, but that for me adds to the experience. On the other hand a colleague of mine rides a 650 Royal Enfield and despite having had bigger bikes on the past, loves it and doesn’t want anything more. Ditto one of my biking mates - used to tour on a Blackbird and now has the 800 Crossrunner.

TL;DR if your bike feels fast enough for you, it probably is. If there’s a niggling voice saying the opposite, it’s time to size up!!

p90fool · June 2023

thefez said:

Fairly new rider here (year on 125, 6 months on a 650).

Just did my first mini tour across to Europe and loved it. Only 800 miles return but lovely weather, great sights and feels awesome to have some tunes banging away as you're cruising along.

Was chatting to some guys on the tunnel and they all had 1000cc + bikes (loads of GS1250s). For those of you that ride bigger bikes, what made you want something that big? I feel happy with the Versys 650 but just wondering if most people grow out of them and that's why they go bigger? I'm mainly commuting with the odd ride around Wales or now Europe

I've toured on all sorts of bikes of all sizes, but have come to realise that my best adventures are on smaller, slower bikes.

It took me many years to consciously choose bikes which suit where I actually want to be (which is backroads and quiet villages) rather than bikes which are known to be tourers.

Most so-called serious tourers are great if you want to blast dual carriageways and only interact with filling station cashiers, but that's never been my thing really.

Your current bike is fine, the only reason to go big is if you have a pillion in my experience.

Devil#20 · June 2023

jaytmon said:

Haych said:

^ I think I've seen the same channel. Interestingly they stated the RPHA-70 was quieter than the AGV K6. I have both and the K6 is a wonderfully quiet helmet compared the the RPHA-70.

If I remove the screen and go naked, the K6 is almost whisper quiet in clean air. With the HJC it doesn't matter if the screen is removed or not, it's just bloody noisy.

I use in-ears now hooked up to the Cardo, not that I use the Cardo much, but they are much better ear plugs for drowning out the noise than anything else I have.

I was shopping for a Shoei when I decided to stump up the extra and go for the Arai. I just don't have a Shoei head shape.

That’s interesting, I did wonder about the accuracy of such tests, and also why the Arai would be (apparently) so noisy.
My head shape is firmly in the Shoei camp, tried Arai on several occasions but without any joy.

So, you me and @Haych have all got or had an RPHA-70. I never had any problems with the cheek pads. 59-60 but I did have a Shark Warhen. 59-60 and had exactly that problem. That was a seriously uncomfortable helmet and felt like I'd had a facelift inside the helmet. I still have it somewhere in the garage I think and it'll still be in date. It has lights on it and a usb charging socket which I didn't know at the time. Bit gimmicky. Won't be buying another Shark helmet anyway.

Dominic · June 2023

I just love the torque /acceleration buzz of a powerful bike .....really powerful
I used to have a 90s Fireblade ,followed by a Ducati 916 ,Honda RC45 then later a Diavel none of them slouches but the difference between those and a Ducati V4S or a KTM Superduke RR is like stepping into another dimension.
The buzz of coming out of a corner like a catapult and fighting that front wheel down is amazing.
There are zero chicken strips on my back wheel and only 5mm on the front ......I look at them every time I get off.

Haych · June 2023

I do like my old R1200R but side by side with a modern adventure bike it’s rather dwarfed.

The engine is, to be kind, a little bit agricultural. It’s not a high revving speed machine but it does move when it needs to. It’s most comfortable between 3000 and 6000 revs, the red line is about 10,000 but it gets a bit buzzy well before then.

It has bags of torque though and never really feels bogged down, it’s rather like a diesel.

Best thing about it is that it’s a rather overlooked and unwanted model, with the GS taking all the spotlight, so used prices are quite good. For a comfortable all round bike for pretty much every occasion I can’t really fault it.

Dominic · June 2023

Try taking the 2023 KTM Superadventure out for a ride .......great bike .

Dominic · June 2023

p90fool said:

thefez said:

Fairly new rider here (year on 125, 6 months on a 650).

Just did my first mini tour across to Europe and loved it. Only 800 miles return but lovely weather, great sights and feels awesome to have some tunes banging away as you're cruising along.

Was chatting to some guys on the tunnel and they all had 1000cc + bikes (loads of GS1250s). For those of you that ride bigger bikes, what made you want something that big? I feel happy with the Versys 650 but just wondering if most people grow out of them and that's why they go bigger? I'm mainly commuting with the odd ride around Wales or now Europe

I've toured on all sorts of bikes of all sizes, but have come to realise that my best adventures are on smaller, slower bikes.

It took me many years to consciously choose bikes which suit where I actually want to be (which is backroads and quiet villages) rather than bikes which are known to be tourers.

Most so-called serious tourers are great if you want to blast dual carriageways and only interact with filling station cashiers, but that's never been my thing really.

Your current bike is fine, the only reason to go big is if you have a pillion in my experience.

I used to tour a lot ........I know exactly what you mean about only interracting with Service Station Cashiers .
That's fine if you have a destination and the bike is simply the conveyance to get there but it isn't Touring at all.
The bit I hate is that whole thing with the dream of stopping in little Towns or an interesting city diversion that the minute you get off and want a bit of a walk around/stroll some bastard is going to nick your luggage /gear.
Italy is the worst but France is also terrible in some areas.

TheBigDipper · June 2023

thefez said:

Fairly new rider here (year on 125, 6 months on a 650).

Just did my first mini tour across to Europe and loved it. Only 800 miles return but lovely weather, great sights and feels awesome to have some tunes banging away as you're cruising along.

Was chatting to some guys on the tunnel and they all had 1000cc + bikes (loads of GS1250s). For those of you that ride bigger bikes, what made you want something that big? I feel happy with the Versys 650 but just wondering if most people grow out of them and that's why they go bigger? I'm mainly commuting with the odd ride around Wales or now Europe

It's for the same reason people buy expensive guitars. Joy of ownership and satisfying GAS. Upgrading your bike for something bigger and better is part of the motorcycling journey for many people, but at some point I've noticed it changes for most of us. Having scratched itches we probably couldn't explain or understand, we seem to find our level and just stay there and enjoy it.

I've never owned or desired a big two-up tourer like a Pan or a BMW RT - I couldn't think of anything worse than bashing down autoroutes with a schedule to keep to. But I have owned three GSs (1150, then 1200 air-cooled then a 1200 liquid-cooled) between 2000 and 2020 as my main bike. Not for touring, but as an instructor bike and a truly great all rounder for everyday riding. When I started with a GS, they were a niche product far more popular on the continent than in the UK. Charlie and Ewan really changed that for them and they use that bike to sell a dream now, like some other lifestyle motorcycle manufacturers do.

One of the nice things about BMWs is how they design luggage capacity for their road-riding (as opposed to off-road or track) bikes to be an integral part of the bike and not an afterthought. If you can get everything into the cases, you can just stop anywhere and take a walk. So there's a practical appeal to some people who do tour a lot.

There's nothing wrong or unsuitable about a Versys for most people. But that might not stop you wanting to try something else just because... In 2020, I couldn't summon the enthusiasm for a fourth GS and tried lots of different bikes as potential replacements. I've ended up with an F900 XR (despite trying really hard to not buy another BMW) and couldn't be happier right now. If you like the Versys, then you're probably right. :-)

Haych · June 2023

TeapotOne has just done a couple of vids on YouTube where he and a few others are zipping around the Canaries on Versys 650s.

He seems to enjoy the bike a lot.

thefez · June 2023

I'd love to have a go on a sports bike but not sure my back could handle an extended length of time on one.

So much I need to learn about everything but it's been a great journey so far.

sinbaadi · June 2023

Most people just want the biggest so they don't pull up next to someone that has a bigger one. If the GS1250 was GS1750 then those people would have that. There's no logic to their choice.

We are also now at a point where any road bike will be annihilated in a straight line by the fastest electric hypercars and lots of others very close if not faster so we are definitely past the era of the superbike being even remotely the fastest thing on the road. I have always much more enjoyed a slower bike that I can ride harder without speeding too much. As fun as that feels, you're not really going all that quickly, but that's not what it's about. If you want laptimes and outright performance, don't get a bike. It's all just varying degrees of slow, compared with lots of things that are actually fast.

So in short, keep the bike you like for as long as you like it, get the 600cc Caterham 7 and have fun without worrying about whether you're going quickly, and smile as the Rimac Nivera leaves the power ranger for absolute dust on his ridiculously expensive superbike, after he scoffed at your lack of Aerodynamic devices, non-colour coded attire, and the missing 130bhp that you obviously need to feel you're a real biker.

Haych · June 2023

I know the feeling. I have a real itch for a S1000RR but I know I’d be in agony after half hour.

Dominic · June 2023

I'm too old to enjoy a hardcore Sports bike for more than 20 minutes ......cramp in hips , neck ache and shoulder/back ache the next day .
.....which is exactly why they invented Super-Nakeds......'Streetfighters ' etc
Aprillia Tuono is a perfect example.....or a Ducati V4S ......Same bike but with slightly higher risers ,lower pegs and sometimes a slightly softer suspension set-up that is still easily enough for a 15 stone hard rider on the road.The torque curve and power delivery is usually set up to be a bit more ooomph lower down the range and more road useable.
They are very comfortable for hours ,more tractable and essentially the same bike without all the plastic crap which I happen to prefer anyway.
Very cleverly ,they have wind tunnel engineered the front binnacles and micro fairing to create more 'clean air' space and are often less windy than the race rep version which demand that you keep your head tucked at all times to be in the bubble.
The problem for anybody over 10 stone is the true sportsbike riding position puts so much weight on your wrists until the wind resistance relieves it at 60mph and above that you will see most owners riding round with one hand on the throttle and an arm braced to lean on the tank to relieve the weight on wrists.

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