Any Motörbike riders here?

thebreeze · June 2023

Actually on closer inspection they look nice from the side but there’s something not right about the square lights and view from the front. I’m going to have to try them all I suppose.

Dominic · June 2023

good analogy

Kittyfrisk · June 2023

Dominic said:

Pan America = Fugly
Not really a Harley
Not as Slick as a BMW GS
Not in the same league as a KTM Superadventure or Ducati Multistrada Pikes Peak
Not as good value as a Honda Africa Twin
What actually is it ?

Harley's take on a Royal Enfield Himalayan...

Dominic · June 2023

I'd rather have the Enfield at 30% of the price thanks

AK99 · June 2023

thebreeze said:

Actually on closer inspection they look nice from the side but there’s something not right about the square lights and view from the front. I’m going to have to try them all I suppose.

That Pan-America 'Adventure' bike weighs in at 242kg. How in Gawd's name could anybody seriously consider an 'offroad' bike that's at least twice the weight of any proper offroad machine ?

They should give all of the marketeers who are pushing the damn things one each to ride up and down a boggy mountain somewhere outside of Milwaukee, see how they get on

TheBigDipper · June 2023

Great day out yesterday with my old East London chums. Lots of cyclists and horse boxes to deal with, but that's rural Dorset for you.

@Dominic the Corfe to Studland road is still just as good as you remember it. And we managed to get to the head of the queue for the ferry (no, didn't queue, just filtered to the front) as the opened the gates. Rode straight on without even switching off!

Dominic · June 2023

Glad you had a great day
I just love that road.....as soon as you get off the ferry and see the little beach bar restaurant on the left it stops feeling like England

Haych · June 2023

AK99 said:

thebreeze said:

Actually on closer inspection they look nice from the side but there’s something not right about the square lights and view from the front. I’m going to have to try them all I suppose.

That Pan-America 'Adventure' bike weighs in at 242kg. How in Gawd's name could anybody seriously consider an 'offroad' bike that's at least twice the weight of any proper offroad machine ?

They should give all of the marketeers who are pushing the damn things one each to ride up and down a boggy mountain somewhere outside of Milwaukee, see how they get on

An R1250GSA is 268kg! Goodness knows what the newly anticipated R1300GSA will weigh.

I still quite fancy a GS and did semi seriously look at a used R1200GS TE LC a few months ago. It was a very nice machine, I can easily see it being a great bike for touring.

That said, apart from maybe extra luggage carrying capacity and maybe more comfort for two up touring, it wouldn’t do anything that I couldn’t do on my old R1200R - until that breaks in catastrophic fashion I see no reason to change it.

TheBigDipper said:

Great day out yesterday with my old East London chums. Lots of cyclists and horse boxes to deal with, but that's rural Dorset for you.

@Dominic the Corfe to Studland road is still just as good as you remember it. And we managed to get to the head of the queue for the ferry (no, didn't queue, just filtered to the front) as the opened the gates. Rode straight on without even switching off!

Riddle me this, is there a lane for MCs which bypasses the tolls on the approach to the chain ferry?

Last time I was there I’m sure there was - either that or I misread the markings on the road and went down a lane I shouldn’t have?

I did still pay on the ferry but I’m sure road markings took me down a narrow lane on the left which completely bypassed the toll booth. To this day I don’t know if I did anything wrong and looked like a fare dodger.

TheBigDipper · June 2023

Haych said:

<snip>

TheBigDipper said:

Great day out yesterday with my old East London chums. Lots of cyclists and horse boxes to deal with, but that's rural Dorset for you.

@Dominic the Corfe to Studland road is still just as good as you remember it. And we managed to get to the head of the queue for the ferry (no, didn't queue, just filtered to the front) as the opened the gates. Rode straight on without even switching off!

Riddle me this, is there a lane for MCs which bypasses the tolls on the approach to the chain ferry?

Last time I was there I’m sure there was - either that or I misread the markings on the road and went down a lane I shouldn’t have?

I did still pay on the ferry but I’m sure road markings took me down a narrow lane on the left which completely bypassed the toll booth. To this day I don’t know if I did anything wrong and looked like a fare dodger.

Yes. Exactly that. (Bicycles, too). And the ferry peeps prefer you to ride to the front of the queue and get onboard first. You pay on board.

Haych · June 2023

TheBigDipper said:
Yes. Exactly that. (Bicycles, too). And the ferry peeps prefer you to ride to the front of the queue and get onboard first. You pay on board.

Ah, thank you. For a couple of years now I’ve often wondered if I did anything wrong and if I ever went back would I do it differently.

AK99 · June 2023

Haych said:
An R1250GSA is 268kg! Goodness knows what the newly anticipated R1300GSA will weigh.

My last proper (and road legal) off-road bike - the IT425 - weighed in at around 115 kg.

I'm trying to picture riding that with a 140kg+ dead-weight brute of a passenger on the back

Dominic · June 2023

Thing with all the Superadventure bikes GS, KTM, Multristrada etc is that the looks,style and marketing is all based on Paris-Dakar type race machines....
they have become a sub-genre of bike in their own right and some buyers have a vague notion of standing on the pegs and going off road on a track ( not quite the desert dunes of Mergouza ) but few realise they are no better than any road bike unless the suspension is set up and they are fitted up with off-road tyres or very good hybrids

Haych · June 2023

I wonder what Ted Simon or Elspeth Beard think about modern ADV bikes, given that they managed on much more ordinary and humble machines?

No need to suffer if you don't need to I suppose, but at the same time at what point does a machine become overkill for what a rider needs for the kind of riding they do?

AK99 · June 2023

Well, on that note..my biking role/model was a kid I used to go to college with - Yonky.

Yonky had a little 175cc Bantam he used for getting everywhere. Got chatting to him, and he told me about riding the Bantam to Greece the previous Summer from Yorkshire. " It were grand until 't damn thing seized on the way up 't hill to 'tAcropolis. Sat down, 'ad a brew to let it cool down - pulled the head, tapped it loose, gave the rings and barrel a rub wi' a bit of wet and dry, and it were grand"

Makes even our Ted's lardy Tiger 500 seem like overkill

octatonic · June 2023

Haych said:

but at the same time at what point does a machine become overkill for what a rider needs for the kind of riding they do?

Most GS/GSAs never see any dirt.
They are largely commuter/touring bikes for well-heeled middle-aged men.

I've done a bit of offroading- broadly speaking, unless you are highly experienced these bikes are just overkill and harder to ride than something like a KTM 300EXC.
They are much more comfy on tarmac of course.

My GSAs were, by far, the best bikes to own though.
All day comfortable.

I've been bikeless for coming up to a year now- I am starting to get the itch again.
It won't be a big tourer next time though.
A Bonne is probably the most likely I think.

Devil#20 · June 2023

How do you know when it's time to change your bike helmet? I have an AGV that's about 10 years old and an HJC which is about 7 years old. I learned today that you shouldn't keep your gloves in the helmet because petrol fumes and residue on them degrade the lining. Obvious once you've been told I suppose. If you didn't do this though what degrades the helmet to being no longer fit for purpose. The shell can be polycarbonate, fibre glass or carbon fibre or some combination. Is it the amount of UV exposure the helmet gets or is it something else. If it's never been dropped and the padding is still firm is there any reason to change it. A decent Arai is around the £800 mark nowadays.

Haych · June 2023

Rule of thumb, I was told is that a polycarbonate helmet should be replaced after two years and a fibreglass or carbon helmet after five years.

BUT, that was by a guy selling me a helmet so a pinch of salt might be necessary.

Devil#20 · June 2023

Haych said:

Rule of thumb, I was told is that a polycarbonate helmet should be replaced after two years and a fibreglass or carbon helmet after five years.

BUT, that was by a guy selling me a helmet so a pinch of salt might be necessary.

@Haych Yes. This was where I was coming from too. I don't know anyone who would bother with a polycarbonate helmet though. If I'm spending 800+ on a new helmet I'd want to be getting more than 5 years out of it. When do you decide yours is past it's sell by date? I look after mine. I always have 2 or 3 at any one time and rotate wearing them to give them an antibacterial spray inside and a chance to dry out and I wear a balaclava except when the weather is like it is at the moment.

Haych · June 2023

I’ve not been riding long enough to have needed to replace a helmet, to be honest.

I replaced the one that bounced off the road in Belgium for obvious reasons, but I still have two which I alternate and which I hope will last many more years.

I did ask Google and it came up with this:
https://timeless2wheels.com/682077/do-motorcycle-helmets-expire/#:~:text=Helmets%20have%20a%20limited%20lifespan,years%20after%20the%20production%20date.

LastMantra · June 2023

Dominic said:

Thing with all the Superadventure bikes GS, KTM, Multristrada etc is that the looks,style and marketing is all based on Paris-Dakar type race machines....
they have become a sub-genre of bike in their own right and some buyers have a vague notion of standing on the pegs and going off road on a track ( not quite the desert dunes of Mergouza ) but few realise they are no better than any road bike unless the suspension is set up and they are fitted up with off-road tyres or very good hybrids

Is it not just the same as people riding super bikes thinking they are j rey, or harley riders thinking they're cruising down route 66 or whatever?

I think I'd prefer the riding position on and adventure style better, sitting up straight, for touring. Although, the ones I've noticed recently don't have very comfortable looking seats?

TheBigDipper · June 2023

Devil#20 said:

How do you know when it's time to change your bike helmet? I have an AGV that's about 10 years old and an HJC which is about 7 years old. I learned today that you shouldn't keep your gloves in the helmet because petrol fumes and residue on them degrade the lining. Obvious once you've been told I suppose. If you didn't do this though what degrades the helmet to being no longer fit for purpose. The shell can be polycarbonate, fibre glass or carbon fibre or some combination. Is it the amount of UV exposure the helmet gets or is it something else. If it's never been dropped and the padding is still firm is there any reason to change it. A decent Arai is around the £800 mark nowadays.

You can buy replacement linings from the big manufacturers. You can usually wash them, too, and they'll fluff up a bit and fit a little better for a while.

When I was running my training school I used to pass on the received wisdom about helmet replacement because that's something the DVSA required approved instructors to do. I did it in good faith but actually have no idea how factually accurate it is. I don't ride every day now. I change when I think the lining has stopped fitting properly even after washing and maybe the strap is a little worn and there's more risk of it snapping or detaching from the helmet in a crash, or the fastening slipping (I prefer D rings) under stress. I believe it's the polystyrene that degrades over time and use (dries out, loses elasticity and therefore shock absorption capability) rather than the shell, but again, just passing it on in good faith. It contradicts the article that Haych found and I've no idea which is correct.

If you've been using both those helmets I'd buy a new one. I've never owned a helmet longer than 5 years. I replaced school helmets every 2 years (inexpensive poly) or if they were dropped. They were rarely dropped, though, as we taught people to put their gloves on the ground, then their helmet on the gloves - not balanced on the seat or over the mirror.

FWIW, if a polycarbonate helmet fits you and you like it, there's no safety advantage to a road rider in buying another material. Sure, comfort, wind noise, looks, etc., may be different, but not road-related safety. There used to be two standards in the USA - Snell and Dot. Maybe there still is... Snell was required for racing and perceived to be the best. Dot was good enough for the road. In fact, tests showed that Dot was better for the road because a Snell helmet was designed for racing crashes and Dot helmets were better suited to the relatively low speed crashes road riders suffered. Less stiff and better for shock absorption.

Dominic · June 2023

Yes ,I think you are absolutely right and the superadventure bikes are very comfortable although not especially manageable .
Some are very tall to the saddle ......great if you happen to be 6'4 but I do see people struggle ,especially when manoevering in a car park or at a kerbside camber especially as they are very bulky.
I saw a guy topple off a GS a few weeks ago .......when we got the bike up and he remounted I could see he was on the very tips of his toes .....he was about 5 10".....certainly not shorter
I had a weekend Green Lane riding about 10 years ago on a 400cc Enduro type bike .......all set up with hybrid tyres etc.It was great fun and I'm experienced but it wasn't especially easy and I certainly didn't get anywhere near the limitations of 400cc power........I came off once and had loads of very close calls........I'm sure I would have gone a lot slower on a big GS type and found it much more difficult even tho' I had a motocross bike as a youngster

Haych · June 2023

TheBigDipper said:
I believe it's the polystyrene that degrades over time and use (dries out, loses elasticity and therefore shock absorption capability) rather than the shell, but again, just passing it on in good faith. It contradicts the article that Haych found and I've no idea which is correct.

This is also what I've heard - the EPS layers lose the solvents or oils or whatever that keep them flexible and they degrade and cannot absorb impacts as well. UV radiation also affects the integrity of the shell, or that's what I've read, with poly and thermoplastic not standing up as well as the more expensive carbon/fibre-glass/composite shells.

However, if that recommendation comes from the weakest link type scenario then there must be cases where perfectly good helmets are being routinely thrown away for no good reason well before they need to be.

If you're using your lid every day in all weathers and all temperatures, putting on and taking off several times a day and using as an impromptu shopping basket at Tesco Express then sure, I can probably see the need to chuck it away after five years.

But, a weekend warrior who looks after their lid and uses it only a few days a week and for the odd tour in the summer, then is it really going to be knackered after five years?

I don't know, I'm just posing what I see as an honest question.

AK99 · June 2023

Best argument for a new one is perhaps the improvements in materials and design between now and half a decade ago - but even that has to be in the margins surely.

With all the things that can get you dead on a bike, the difference between a 3 year old and a 6 year old helmet can't be much in the greater scheme of things ?

p90fool · June 2023

My everyday lid is only about three years old but illegal in this country, but I have some others dating back to the fifties.

They all keep my ears warm and stop me getting a ticket, so the idea of spending 800 quid on a plastic hat is not one from the planet I inhabit tbh.

Dominic · June 2023

The Helmet I wear on a cruiser is an open face American DOT helmet .Arguable apparently whether legal or not somebody told me that the wording says something like equivalent to the certified BS ...which isn't the same as having to carry the actual BS mark .....I've never been questioned about it or stopped in 20 years .

LastMantra · June 2023

My dad got his helmet from aldi.

He's an open face with goggles guy.

Haych · June 2023

A couple of videos on the topic here, some healthy cynicism on the 5 year rule included.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYfgD12JXtg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nbQsnUvlo4

AK99 · June 2023

Interesting vidyo - but I can't get past the two dudes standing up straight-legged on the pegs the whole time

If it's smooth enough to do that - SIT ffs. If it's not - bend your knees to ride the bumps or you'll (a) wreck your knee-joints and (b) get fkt up off the bike into the ether or (c) both. Jeez Louise..

TheBigDipper · June 2023

Dominic said:

The Helmet I wear on a cruiser is an open face American DOT helmet .Arguable apparently whether legal or not somebody told me that the wording says something like equivalent to the certified BS ...which isn't the same as having to carry the actual BS mark .....I've never been questioned about it or stopped in 20 years .

I think we're way past the era where there were enough traffic police interested in this sort of thing to actually want to do anything about it. And that's got to be good, because there are more important things in life than enforcing "you must wear a helmet" laws, and they're inconsistent (IMHO) because of the exception permitted to male Sikhs. I'd repeal that law and let individuals decide - just like bicycle helmets. (But I'd wear one myself).

Any helmet made to pass the safety standards in a first world country that actually requires a standard is good enough for me - BSI/EU mark or not.

I'm still suspicious about some aftermarket visors, though. I used to read about poorly made visors that couldn't pass the safety tests. So they couldn't be sold in the UK. Of course, that didn't stop people buying them online and the order being shipped from another country. This (for me) was an issue for things like iridium visors and heavily-tinted visors. because the level of tint is already illegal for the UK. In that instance, then there is no point in submitting them for UK safety tests as they'd still not be permitted. So there's no incentive to make them properly, either.

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