The cricket thread

guitars4you · April 2020

sixstringsupplies said:

full commentary of the final days play of "that" Ben Stokes innings. England are 156-3 chasing 359.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/52136844

and on Sky - I recall the day as I was at a guitar show in the Lake District so had access to the score etc, but did not see it live as such - So going through it now - Lunch and 120 needed with 6 wickets left

breezytele · April 2020

Yep, listening too

Managed to delay radio 5 live extra TMS repeat to sync with YouTube (Sky freebie)

Heartfeltdawn · April 2020

Graeme Watson has passed away. Not a huge name in the annals of cricket but a very decent first-class record. Because of his passing, the footage of him being hit against the World XI has come up. First he got clobbered by Peter Pollock and then topedged a Gregg high full toss.

Rather reiterates how brave batsmen were in the days of sod all protection.

guitars4you · June 2020

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/52944158

Boycott to retire from TMS - I know he divides opinion but I'm a fan of him - But I am a Yorkshire fan as well so certainly biased

earwighoney · June 2020

guitars4you said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/52944158

Boycott to retire from TMS - I know he divides opinion but I'm a fan of him - But I am a Yorkshire fan as well so certainly biased

I'll miss him for sure, without him and Bob Willis, cricket will definitely miss a few big (and grumpy) characters.

scrumhalf · June 2020

earwighoney said:

guitars4you said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/52944158

Boycott to retire from TMS - I know he divides opinion but I'm a fan of him - But I am a Yorkshire fan as well so certainly biased

I'll miss him for sure, without him and Bob Willis, cricket will definitely miss a few big (and grumpy) characters.

And Botham and Gower.

earwighoney · June 2020

scrumhalf said:

earwighoney said:

guitars4you said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/52944158

Boycott to retire from TMS - I know he divides opinion but I'm a fan of him - But I am a Yorkshire fan as well so certainly biased

I'll miss him for sure, without him and Bob Willis, cricket will definitely miss a few big (and grumpy) characters.

And Botham and Gower.

I don't miss those two!

crunchman · June 2020

guitars4you said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/52944158

Boycott to retire from TMS - I know he divides opinion but I'm a fan of him - But I am a Yorkshire fan as well so certainly biased

Sad news.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2020

He'll end up on TalkSport.

Excellent to see the 1984 England-West Indies Test last night.

guitars4you · June 2020

Heartfeltdawn said:

He'll end up on TalkSport.

Excellent to see the 1984 England-West Indies Test last night.

I did not know it was on until I turned the TV on and did some channel hoping so glad I saw most of it - Could have watched a longer version as well - Obviously from the days when BBC had some sport still

Heartfeltdawn · June 2020

guitars4you said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

He'll end up on TalkSport.

Excellent to see the 1984 England-West Indies Test last night.

I did not know it was on until I turned the TV on and did some channel hoping so glad I saw most of it - Could have watched a longer version as well - Obviously from the days when BBC had some sport still

Every ball bowled over those five days would have been fine with me

Funny thing was seeing some Twitter folk talking about the one camera angle. I actually like having a camera face on to the bowler. It gives a far better idea of what it is like for a batsman to face a quick bowler.

Good memories. Gatt padding up like an eejit, Malcolm Marshall bowling like a demon, and the shot Greenidge plays off Pringle at 54.50. Might well be my favourite shot of all time. It's neither beautiful nor ugly but utterly perfect in its dismissiveness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000jy61/cricket-cricket-classics-england-v-west-indies-1-lords-1984

guitars4you · June 2020

Heartfeltdawn said:

guitars4you said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

He'll end up on TalkSport.

Excellent to see the 1984 England-West Indies Test last night.

I did not know it was on until I turned the TV on and did some channel hoping so glad I saw most of it - Could have watched a longer version as well - Obviously from the days when BBC had some sport still

Every ball bowled over those five days would have been fine with me Funny thing was seeing some Twitter folk talking about the one camera angle. I actually like having a camera face on to the bowler. It gives a far better idea of what it is like for a batsman to face a quick bowler.

Good memories. Gatt padding up like an eejit, Malcolm Marshall bowling like a demon, and the shot Greenidge plays off Pringle at 54.50. Might well be my favourite shot of all time. It's neither beautiful nor ugly but utterly perfect in its dismissiveness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000jy61/cricket-cricket-classics-england-v-west-indies-1-lords-1984

I know Ian and Viv were big mates, but I liked the banter when Botham bowled an ultra short pitch bowl and Viv walked almost up the the non strikers end, egged on by Ian with a big smile

Forget what swagger Viv carried with him - Nonchalant - Never arrogant, but he knew he was good - And Sir Clive looked so unlike any other cricket, before or since - In fact just doesn't look like any sports star - I totally forgot about Small

Rich210 · June 2020

I watched it too! Those umpires were so trigger happy on the lbw's

earwighoney · June 2020

guitars4you said:

Forget what swagger Viv carried with him - Nonchalant - Never arrogant, but he knew he was good - And Sir Clive looked so unlike any other cricket, before or since - In fact just doesn't look like any sports star - I totally forgot about Small

Over the last 15 years or so when I'd make the occasional visit to watch a day's test match at Lords I'd see Sir Clive pootling about. You're right he doesn't look like anyone else, in some ways he could be my tall distant fat Guyanese uncle (when I was fatter and had a moustache), he's possibly the most avuncular genius of test match cricket (I can think of, I imagine @Heartfeltdawn dawn will come out and correct me with 5 guys from the India, Pakistan and Sri Lankan teams who are even more avuncular and won Wisden awards for their contribution to the very fields).

The most important thing about Gladstone Small is that he has no neck. Back, then head. No neck.

guitars4you · June 2020

^^^^^^^^^^ I was on about Milton Small not Gladstone Small - looks like that match we saw from Lords was only his 2nd yet last appearance test match

earwighoney · June 2020

guitars4you said:

^^^^^^^^^^ I was on about Milton Small not Gladstone Small - looks like that match we saw from Lords was only his 2nd yet last appearance test match

Thanks for the correction but it's always good to mention Gladstone Small.

guitars4you · June 2020

earwighoney said:

guitars4you said:

^^^^^^^^^^ I was on about Milton Small not Gladstone Small - looks like that match we saw from Lords was only his 2nd yet last appearance test match

Thanks for the correction but it's always good to mention Gladstone Small.

You mention Clive Lloyd - I never saw him life, but I saw Michael Holding - When he played for Derbyshire he played near our local village for a charity match - Of about 3 paces incredible how fast and smooth/slick he was - The crowd were asking him to show the full run up and pace but he wouldn't

guitars4you · June 2020

Just thinking - WI generally had a 4 pace attack - so from the late 70's to mid 90's who would be your lethal 4

Holding, Marshall, Walsh, Ambrose - So no Garner - Wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and pick who gets the new ball out of that bunch - I'd probably rotate it and let them decide

crunchman · June 2020

guitars4you said:

Just thinking - WI generally had a 4 pace attack - so from the late 70's to mid 90's who would be your lethal 4

Holding, Marshall, Walsh, Ambrose - So no Garner - Wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and pick who gets the new ball out of that bunch - I'd probably rotate it and let them decide

Ambrose vs Garner is a tight call. Both were absolutely great.

For a balanced team, Walsh probably works as the "into the wind" bowler, but I think Andy Roberts or the young (pre-back injury) Ian Bishop were probably better. Bishop had the potential to have been the greatest of the lot. He was never the same when he came back.

scrumhalf · June 2020

Holding and Lillee both had magnificent run-ups and actions. Holding just glided along and with Lillee you could hear an express train thundering past as he ran in.

They were poretty bloody good when they delivered the ball as well.

John Arlott said of Lloyd's batting that it had the air of "the stroke of a man knocking a thistle top off with a walking stick"

Stuckfast · June 2020

I think Jeffrey Dujon was once asked which of the great Windies fast bowlers was the fastest of all, and said Patrick Patterson. But yes Ian Bishop was lethally quick in his youth.

Jason Holder strikes me as having a bit of the Garner / Ambrose touch, though not as fast.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2020

earwighoney said:
Over the last 15 years or so when I'd make the occasional visit to watch a day's test match at Lords I'd see Sir Clive pootling about. You're right he doesn't look like anyone else, in some ways he could be my tall distant fat Guyanese uncle (when I was fatter and had a moustache), he's possibly the most avuncular genius of test match cricket (I can think of, I imagine @Heartfeltdawn dawn will come out and correct me with 5 guys from the India, Pakistan and Sri Lankan teams who are even more avuncular and won Wisden awards for their contribution to the very fields).

The most important thing about Gladstone Small is that he has no neck. Back, then head. No neck.

I can't correct you here, good sir

Sir Clive is one of the most underrated cricketers on the face of the planet as well as one of the friendliest and sincere you could ever hope to meet, as I have once. Consider this, his Wiki entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Lloyd

Lee fucking Germon has a longer Wiki entry than Clive Lloyd.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Germon

How?!? The guy was a superb captain, a brilliant first-class cricketer, won two World Cups and scored a century in one of them against a very good Australia side at a rate that would still stand up in today's hit and giggle cricket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHieIMlSSDM

Incredibly fast hands, perhaps even quicker than Sobers, with the bat, and able to be that fast even with an absolute tree trunk of a bat.

crunchman · June 2020

Stuckfast said:

I think Jeffrey Dujon was once asked which of the great Windies fast bowlers was the fastest of all, and said Patrick Patterson. But yes Ian Bishop was lethally quick in his youth.

Jason Holder strikes me as having a bit of the Garner / Ambrose touch, though not as fast.

Dujon never kept to Holding at his quickest. He didn't make his debut until 1981, which was 5 years after Holding's epic 1976 series. By 1981, he had slowed down a bit.

There was one pundit who had seen everyone of the last 50 years or so who said that Holding was the quickest he had seen for sustained pace. He said that the likes of Thommo could bowl faster on occasion when everything clicked, but Holding could sustain his pace and bowl it consistently.

earwighoney · June 2020

Heartfeltdawn said:
I can't correct you here, good sir Sir Clive is one of the most underrated cricketers on the face of the planet as well as one of the friendliest and sincere you could ever hope to meet, as I have once. Consider this, his Wiki entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Lloyd

Lee fucking Germon has a longer Wiki entry than Clive Lloyd.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Germon

How?!? The guy was a superb captain, a brilliant first-class cricketer, won two World Cups and scored a century in one of them against a very good Australia side at a rate that would still stand up in today's hit and giggle cricket.

Some truly fine points. I saw a documentary about him and the great team he captained and there was a lot of emphasis on his abilities as a captain; to unite and get the very best out of a team with a lot of varied and contrasting characters. Seems like a good guy as well.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2020

guitars4you said:
You mention Clive Lloyd - I never saw him life, but I saw Michael Holding - When he played for Derbyshire he played near our local village for a charity match - Of about 3 paces incredible how fast and smooth/slick he was - The crowd were asking him to show the full run up and pace but he wouldn't

That's the mark of a real quick bowler to my mind. Two instances spring to attention. The first was watching Waqar Younis for the first time play for Pakistan against the NCA in 1996. The pace he was getting on his practice deliveries bowling into the ground on a one-step run-up was astounding. Ironically he bowled like a drain in the match itself but we're talking some rapid pies. At the other end was Wasim Akram. Again, one-step bowling practice was stunning.

The second was a six-a-side tournament at Teddington CC in 1998. Each side had a South Africa touring squad member in their ranks. All the quicks were off three paces. On display: Pollock, Nantie Hayward, Ntini, and Jacques Kallis. All were sharp. And all looked hard a yard slower than Allan Donald. Three paces, just that next level of pace compared to everyone else. The one delivery he bowled off the full run was beautiful to observe at close quarters. Lillee at his peak had a beautiful action, Michael Holding was grace personified, and there's something about Shoaib Akhtar's full effort run up that I've really liked but Allan Donald's action is the one I wish I'd been genetically blessed with. The picture below is one I had on my wall for many years. Both feet off the ground, left arm there, beautiful wrist position, and the sheer level of focus on the guy at the other end.

Allan Donald bowling for Warwickshire during their Benson and

Allan Donald bowling for Warwickshire during their Benson and

scrumhalf · June 2020

Didn't Geoff Boycott say about that over from Holding in ?Barbados? that he thought he wasn't bowling flat out?

guitars4you · June 2020

Going back to my WI bowling attack - I started watching Test Match cricket around 1971 and a year or so later I was lucky enough to see Lillie - Only 12 or so, and therefore far to young to appreciate him

So since then, based on a potential 4 man attack + a spin bowler which will have to be Warne - Which other pace bowlers, from around the world, would beat Holding, Marshall, Walsh, Ambrose to earn a place in your attack - Lillie, Donald, Wasim, Waqar, Pollock, McGrath, Steyn, Hadlee and possibly our own Jimmy Anderson are obvious challengers

As an attack of 4, whichever set of 4 pace bowlers the WI picked, they probably had the advantage that if one did not get you the other did, so as a combination they were nearly always lethal - Yes other great WI pace bowlers would have an influence in the team, but not for as long - Yet part of me says the other non WI bowlers I mentioned are 'better' in that they were not part of a gang of 4 - Sometimes not even a gang of 2 - So an element of me saying that they had to produce what they did in a less 'potent' team attack and to a degree had to always carry the attack - Obviously an hypothetical question and I doubt any of us would pick the same combination of 4 pace bowlers - I've already changed my mind 3 times, so not yet declared my attack

With a fast attack of 4, + spin, then a wicket keeper at 6, that leaves 5 batsman so effectively no all rounder - Yet part of me says you could have Kallis, or Kapil Dev in at 3-5 as an all rounder role, if you ever thought the above 5 bowlers needed help - Doubtful

Heartfeltdawn · June 2020

earwighoney said:
Some truly fine points. I saw a documentary about him and the great team he captained and there was a lot of emphasis on his abilities as a captain; to unite and get the very best out of a team with a lot of varied and contrasting characters. Seems like a good guy as well.

Absolutely this. West Indies cricket has always had a bit of niggle behind the scenes, a lot more of which has been public in recent years since the Windies heyday. CLR James detailed this in "Beyond A Boundary" going years back. The variations between cultures across the islands of the West Indies meant that a good captain had to work to get these cultures to gel and Lloyd did that so well.

As a batsman, he's so underrated. Consider his cumulative average:

After 50 Tests, he was averaging 45 having scored 3600 runs. At Test 110, he was averaging 46 having scored 7515 runs. That's amazingly consistent and quite remarkable for a player getting older after those first 50 Tests who wore glasses.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2020

guitars4you said:

Just thinking - WI generally had a 4 pace attack - so from the late 70's to mid 90's who would be your lethal 4

Holding, Marshall, Walsh, Ambrose - So no Garner - Wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and pick who gets the new ball out of that bunch - I'd probably rotate it and let them decide

Marshall, Holding, Ambrose, Garner. Marshall always gets the new ball and his partner rotates.

guitars4you · June 2020

just seen the BBC test match re-run last week of WI in 1984 is part of an ongoing series so more to come each Sat for a few weeks - Get the beers in and I'm in for this

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