Russell Brand allegations

euan · September 2023

munckee said:

The term power imbalance is now being used in loads of circumstances to describe s myriad of situations. I’m 3 years older than missus munckee and have always earned considerably more, by some of the definitions last night ours is a toxic sexually inappropriate relationship despite being married 20 years and having two kids.

Seeing as I’m the one who used the phrase. I’m referring to people directly in his employ and the runners, the lowest entry level media jobs, being the ones with a clear power imbalance. The lying to the runner about his contract is further evidence of it.

I’m not sure you can compare a 3 year age gap with a 14 year gap with a 16 year old

Sporky · September 2023

TTony said:

monquixote said:

On the deeper level how is it that an entire industry can be so fundamentally broken that it can be common knowledge that someone isn't safe to have around women and yet it's tolerated, celebrated, covered up and managed.

As you say, it’s an industry.

Because we (the general public) want the industry to entertain us, to give us “personalities”.

The industry exists to satisfy that demand. It creates/manufactures those personalities and earns $billions from them. To succeed in an ever more competitive market, they have to be ever more effective in capturing the market’s attention, which implies ever more extreme in their acts (and/or underlying personalities) to stand out from all that competition.

I think this can further be reduced to "because growth capitalism".

I sometimes wonder if the industry knowingly conceals things for two reasons; short term, to keep a star bringing in profit, and secondly so that the same star can later be sacrificed for another burst of profit.

axisus · September 2023

Surely just allegations at the moment. Without taking sides, I never understand how a judgement can be made on something that happened 20 years ago based on two people with opposing opinions. How does anyone except those two know what happened?

Open_G · September 2023

Watched the first 40mins or so of the dispatches thing last night. Obviously edited to make him appear as poorly as possible but he does come across as a complete twat.

Much of what is alleged is pretty much impossible to corroborate as it’s taken place between consenting adults in a private place. Looks as though he’s pushed his will and power too far into a place where the women concerned were not willing or comfortable to go/be. The whole thing suggests that he’s pretty disturbed and lacking any form of empathy or understanding towards, and of, women.

theatreanchor · September 2023

axisus said:

Surely just allegations at the moment. Without taking sides, I never understand how a judgement can be made on something that happened 20 years ago based on two people with opposing opinions. How does anyone except those two know what happened?

Assume you posed this question about Savile, Clarke, Weinstein, Cosby etc.

Obviously it’s more than two people and it’s also quite easy to believe because of his despicable behaviour on and off screen in the noughties.

They’re not just allegations but direct accusations. Clearly Brand was protected when he was making people / organisations money.

Reverend · September 2023

theatreanchor said:

axisus said:

Surely just allegations at the moment. Without taking sides, I never understand how a judgement can be made on something that happened 20 years ago based on two people with opposing opinions. How does anyone except those two know what happened?

Assume you posed this question about Savile, Clarke, Weinstein, Cosby etc.

Obviously it’s more than two people and it’s also quite easy to believe because of his despicable behaviour on and off screen in the noughties.

They’re not just allegations but direct accusations. Clearly Brand was protected when he was spending money.

ftfy

euan · September 2023

axisus said:

Surely just allegations at the moment. Without taking sides, I never understand how a judgement can be made on something that happened 20 years ago based on two people with opposing opinions. How does anyone except those two know what happened?

In Scottish courts there is something called Moorov’s Doctrine. It’s use could apply here

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

euan said:

axisus said:

Surely just allegations at the moment. Without taking sides, I never understand how a judgement can be made on something that happened 20 years ago based on two people with opposing opinions. How does anyone except those two know what happened?

In Scottish courts there is something called Moorov’s Doctrine. It’s use could apply here

Not just Scotland, just about every legal system has an equivalent to ''Moorov's Doctrine''.

viz · September 2023

euan said:

munckee said:

The term power imbalance is now being used in loads of circumstances to describe s myriad of situations. I’m 3 years older than missus munckee and have always earned considerably more, by some of the definitions last night ours is a toxic sexually inappropriate relationship despite being married 20 years and having two kids.

Seeing as I’m the one who used the phrase. I’m referring to people directly in his employ and the runners, the lowest entry level media jobs, being the ones with a clear power imbalance. The lying to the runner about his contract is further evidence of it.

I’m not sure you can compare a 3 year age gap with a 14 year gap with a 16 year old

Also as you have rightly identified, you two committed to each other and got married and built a family together, which is rather different from having sex with someone because you're more powerful. Marriage, for richer / poorer / sickness / health etc is where the power imbalance ends, assets are shared, etc.

DefaultM · September 2023

axisus said:

Surely just allegations at the moment. Without taking sides, I never understand how a judgement can be made on something that happened 20 years ago based on two people with opposing opinions. How does anyone except those two know what happened?

Yeah why can't we just say "its a difference of opinion. Her word against his and it's been years. I know someone else that was raped and they handled it with dignified silence. This person is whining".

Haych · September 2023

I haven't read all the comments so I could be repeating stuff here.

I have no particular love of Brand, when he first rose to fame I couldn't stand the man. I still think he'd do well for a wash, haircut and some decent clothes but that's besides the point.

Over the years I have softened my opinion of him somewhat and he has on a few occasions surprised me with how intelligent and articulate he obviously is.

Furthermore, I do not know if any of these allegations are true, neither do I care very much at the moment.

I do find it very disturbing that anonymous persons can make allegations in the media that destroys a persons life and career, because if it can happen to someone as high profile as Brand then why couldn't it happen to me, and what defence would I have if it did?

I find it further disturbing that as soon as an allegation is made, anyone associated with the individual accused scatters. Assumed to be guilty before any real process has begun.

This is nothing but trial revenge by media Lynch mob and as such it jeopardises the success of any legal trial that may be brought and minimises the chances of the women making the allegations of seeing justice inside a courtroom.

There's also something of the metoo movement about all of this, I think. Memory is very fallible and as a memory is replayed it is replayed by a different light of the time in which it is recalled. Kind of like people being convinced they met Daffy Duck at Disneyland.

I do not belittle the experiences of any woman who may or may not have been damaged by Brand's alleged predatory behaviour, but it's also a salient point that needs to be stated and if it ever goes to trial you can guarantee it will be stated.

TTony · September 2023

viz said:

Marriage, for richer / poorer / sickness / health etc is where the power imbalance ends

I'm really not sure that's at all true.

There are plenty of examples of power imbalances (physical abuse, controlling behaviours, etc) that persist within marriages.

munckee · September 2023

viz said:

euan said:

munckee said:

The term power imbalance is now being used in loads of circumstances to describe s myriad of situations. I’m 3 years older than missus munckee and have always earned considerably more, by some of the definitions last night ours is a toxic sexually inappropriate relationship despite being married 20 years and having two kids.

Seeing as I’m the one who used the phrase. I’m referring to people directly in his employ and the runners, the lowest entry level media jobs, being the ones with a clear power imbalance. The lying to the runner about his contract is further evidence of it.

I’m not sure you can compare a 3 year age gap with a 14 year gap with a 16 year old

Also as you have rightly identified, you two committed to each other and got married and built a family together, which is rather different from having sex with someone because you're more powerful. Marriage, for richer / poorer / sickness / health etc is where the power imbalance ends, assets are shared, etc.

I wasn't specifically referring to Euan's use, I was talking about the program, they were talking about grooming for the 16 year old which I agree with, the power imbalance thing being retrospectively applied to relationships from 20 years looks worse in the mirror I think. Madonna and Britney had relationships with dancers etc, no one is calling them out. Since the beginning of time women have been attracted to powerful and wealthy men and tried to form relationships with them.

lustycourtier · September 2023

Really liked him for years, starting from 12/9/01 when he presented on MTV dressed as Bin Laden. His books are brilliant, and Ive seen him live many times. Arthur was better than the original (to me) and Ill watch Sarah Marshall/get him to the greek whenever they are on.

The Sachs thing with Ross was Misjudged, but as usual something that doesnt get one complaint from the live broadcast, get thousands as soon as the Mail decides it can get one up on them both.

Ive lost interest over recent years, but hes always been very open about his life choices, but if theres more, good riddance as of course Ill be on the side of the victims.

theatreanchor · September 2023

Haych said:

I haven't read all the comments so I could be repeating stuff here.

I have no particular love of Brand, when he first rose to fame I couldn't stand the man. I still think he'd do well for a wash, haircut and some decent clothes but that's besides the point.

Over the years I have softened my opinion of him somewhat and he has on a few occasions surprised me with how intelligent and articulate he obviously is.

Furthermore, I do not know if any of these allegations are true, neither do I care very much at the moment.

I do find it very disturbing that anonymous persons can make allegations in the media that destroys a persons life and career, because if it can happen to someone as high profile as Brand then why couldn't it happen to me, and what defence would I have if it did?

I find it further disturbing that as soon as an allegation is made, anyone associated with the individual accused scatters. Assumed to be guilty before any real process has begun.

This is nothing but trial revenge by media Lynch mob and as such it jeopardises the success of any legal trial that may be brought and minimises the chances of the women making the allegations of seeing justice inside a courtroom.

There's also something of the metoo movement about all of this, I think. Memory is very fallible and as a memory is replayed it is replayed by a different light of the time in which it is recalled. Kind of like people being convinced they met Daffy Duck at Disneyland.

I do not belittle the experiences of any woman who may or may not have been damaged by Brand's alleged predatory behaviour, but it's also a salient point that needs to be stated and if it ever goes to trial you can guarantee it will be stated.

" I do not know if any of these allegations are true, neither do I care very much at the moment."

Followed by, "I do not belittle the experiences of any woman who may or may not have been damaged by Brand's alleged predatory behaviour,"

But you do care enough to post this on a forum.

euan · September 2023

lustycourtier said:

The Sachs thing with Ross was Misjudged, but as usual something that doesnt get one complaint from the live broadcast, get thousands as soon as the Mail decides it can get one up on them both.

Have you heard what Georgina Ballie has been through since that happened? To be fair to Brand he paid for her to go to rehab and did apologise, and it was Ross who said it. But he continued it on the show and Ross requested for it to be removed before airing. But Brand made a producers decision to keep all the calls in.

roberty · September 2023

axisus said:

Surely just allegations at the moment. Without taking sides, I never understand how a judgement can be made on something that happened 20 years ago based on two people with opposing opinions. How does anyone except those two know what happened?

There is a lot of strong evidence, one of them went to a rape crisis centre after an alleged attack, there are corroborating text messages between Brand and the alleged victim, there are doctor's records, and anecdotal accounts from friends and family. It was a four year journalistic investigation. There is more to it than he said/she said

It's been an open secret in the entertainment industry for a number of years, eg from 2:54

In a world of probabilities it is highly probable imo

Rob1742 · September 2023

I don’t really know what he is famous for, so I am looking from an outsiders point of view.

I was absolutely astounded when I saw the headlines across the newspapers, when I understand that there was absolutely no accusations made to the police at that point.

I am not shocked though how the public has reacted, which is to take one side or the other, when the facts haven’t been heard.

We had a lady come round to do some beauty treatment on the missus a while back, and she commented on another celebrity, forming opinions on headlines and being passionate about the opinion she read in the papers.

People need to take a step back, not get involved and let investigations take place rather than decide to go on one side or another.

The public are too easily lead and always will be.

Adey · September 2023

Haych said:

I haven't read all the comments so I could be repeating stuff here.

I have no particular love of Brand, when he first rose to fame I couldn't stand the man. I still think he'd do well for a wash, haircut and some decent clothes but that's besides the point.

Over the years I have softened my opinion of him somewhat and he has on a few occasions surprised me with how intelligent and articulate he obviously is.

Furthermore, I do not know if any of these allegations are true, neither do I care very much at the moment.

I do find it very disturbing that anonymous persons can make allegations in the media that destroys a persons life and career, because if it can happen to someone as high profile as Brand then why couldn't it happen to me, and what defence would I have if it did?

I find it further disturbing that as soon as an allegation is made, anyone associated with the individual accused scatters. Assumed to be guilty before any real process has begun.

This is nothing but trial revenge by media Lynch mob and as such it jeopardises the success of any legal trial that may be brought and minimises the chances of the women making the allegations of seeing justice inside a courtroom.

There's also something of the metoo movement about all of this, I think. Memory is very fallible and as a memory is replayed it is replayed by a different light of the time in which it is recalled. Kind of like people being convinced they met Daffy Duck at Disneyland.

I do not belittle the experiences of any woman who may or may not have been damaged by Brand's alleged predatory behaviour, but it's also a salient point that needs to be stated and if it ever goes to trial you can guarantee it will be stated.

Personally, I think Russel Brand is a slimey git.

However, it is wrong for people and companies to be Judge Judy and Executioner (sic Hot Fuzz).

I read that You Tube had deceided to stop paying him revenue. That's wrong. He hasn't been found guilty of anything. If he is eventually found guilty, in say a years' time, of a lesser offence, will they be making an effort to pay back what was incorrectly withheld?

The internet really is "Home of the Baying Mob"

Haych · September 2023

theatreanchor said:
" I do not know if any of these allegations are true, neither do I care very much at the moment."

Followed by, "I do not belittle the experiences of any woman who may or may not have been damaged by Brand's alleged predatory behaviour,"

But you do care enough to post this on a forum.

I care very much, not about unsubstantiated rumours, allegation and accusation made in the press, but about process and justice, none of which I've seen so far in all this. Making public allegations via legacy media has just made that more difficult.

I haven't belittled anyone but believing any accuser only on their word is folly, that is why we have a process.

Neither have I and nor am I defending Brand.

euan · September 2023

“via legacy media”

Oh come on now. People aren’t choosing to believe one accuser. But multiple with the same reported behaviours across multiple years and countries. The surprise threesome appears to be one he has pulled often.

And then there are the text messages and his own words.

euan · September 2023

roberty said:

It's been an open secret in the entertainment industry for a number of years, eg from 2:54

In a world of probabilities it is highly probable imo

Ryan encapsulates it so well here. Especially about the lawyering up. That was the experience of the 16 year old who just wanted an apology.

But Brand later exposes something pretty important himself. He and Jimmy Carr have the same manager.

Petepassion · September 2023

We live in a world of madness and uncertainty, smoke and mirrors. I lost all faith in mainstream media after they done a number on Assange and then Corbyn…two major threats to the establishment. And I’m sure Brand is quite a pain in the backside for the establishment and their corporate cronies. He’s a great source of information, and links to many educated and interesting people, but I’ve no idea if he is guilty of the alleged crimes or not though.

Sporky · September 2023

Adey said:
However, it is wrong for people and companies to be Judge Judy and Executioner (sic Hot Fuzz).

Simpsons, I think.

Wazmeister · September 2023

Brand has a history of being a 'whore' (his own words)...

He is subscriber to the book 'The Game' - which teaches you how to 'pull' women; a successful but very manipulative method of attracting other people.

The current evidence against him looks overwhelming, but innocent till proven guilty and all that.

monquixote · September 2023

There are two common arguments made in cases like this which I don't accept.

"He should face no repercussions until he is convicted in a court of law"
It doesn't seem to be in dispute that he had a sexual relationship with a 16 year old which was to some extent coercive. I don't know if it constitutes a crime, but knowing this I will not buy anything he is involved with and if I owned I company he was involved with I would sever ties because he wouldn't align with my values and would bring me into disrepute by association.

"Anyone could just be convicted of anything by anyone and be ruined."
While this has happened in the past (Leon Brittan is a good example). This is not the case here. This has been a 4 year investigation between two reputable news organisations who have made a strong case.

Gilly · September 2023

It’s funny how people are moaning about the evils of social media whilst simultaneously contributing to the debate. Presumably everyone else should shut up, right?

As far as I’m aware Jimmy Saville was never charged with any crime. Should we all shut up about him?

And then with all the recent high profile cases like Epstein, Weinstein, Rolf Harris etc. How many of them turned out to be innocent?

theatreanchor · September 2023

Gilly said:

It’s funny how people are moaning about the evils of social media whilst simultaneously contributing to the debate. Presumably everyone else should shut up, right?

As far as I’m aware Jimmy Saville was never charged with any crime. Should we all shut up about him?

And then with all the recent high profile cases like Epstein, Weinstein, Rolf Harris etc. How many of them turned out to be innocent?

Quite right!

Sassafras · September 2023

The police don't have a great track record when it comes to investigating complaints against high profile people (Cyril Smith, Jimmy Savile). It's no surprise people go to the media first.

Philly_Q · September 2023

I don't remember many people leaping to the defence of Weinstein, Harris, the already-deceased Savile etc as they seem to be doing with Russell Brand. Is it just that he's more popular - and has a big social media following, which the others certainly didn't - so there's a reluctance to accept what kind of person he really is?

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