Russell Brand allegations

euan · September 2023

Shrews said:

…

They are not comparable. Ryan is not a victim of abuse. The only way she can go to the police would be to betray those who have been abused and not chosen to go to the police.

A person going to the police and saying “I have been a victim and this is my story” is completely different to someone who had heard directly that they are a victim but has no evidence that it happened.

I’ll ask it directly. What do you expect Ryan to have gone to the police with?

Petepassion · September 2023

menamestom said:

Petepassion said:

menamestom said:

I mean anybody in power. Would be easy to remove his videos if somebody really wanted to.

I didn't say that there was no truth in his videos either, we are all aware of government corruption, contracts to mates, disenfranchised population etc.

Let's flip this round. Tell me one thing he's uncovered in his videos, one spoking gun, where he's lifted the lid on something that exposes the powers that be? I don't mean posting videos, just tell me specifically, what original exposé has he conducted?

I'm happy to be educated here, I've not watched his videos more than a cursory glance, but if he has conducted some vital journalism that compromises somebody in power, what is it?

It's a very instant and accessible channel to get a lot of information and links to many various people of interest. No, he's not Wikileaks, but he brings this stuff to the fore quickly and therefore it spreads wider and faster.

I see, so it's his high profile and general anti-establishment stance which has caught the attention of the government, rather than anything very specific.

Tom Walker / Jonathan Pie is much closer to the bone with regards to his government critisism, you have to wonder why he's allowed to get away with it if people like Brand aren't.

Tom Walker is nowhere near the threat Brand is, Brand is pointing out and questioning much of the cosy, behind closed doors affiliations between corporations and government. Brand is an inconvenience, a nuisance to these people, so it makes good business sense to bury him if they can...it's just business, another day at the office.

Gilly · September 2023

imalrightjack said:

Gilly said:

You’re entitled to your opinion of course but your argument appears to be “I like Russell Brand therefore I don’t believe it”. So it’s not really worthy of any consideration.

Most of the counter-arguments are that he's a twat, so…

Not really. My impression is that even people who think he’s a twat have said we should reserve judgment until any allegations are proven. I could be wrong - I’m not going back through the thread to check though.

I haven’t given an opinion on whether I think they are true or not because I don’t know.

Shrews · September 2023

euan said:

Shrews said:

…

They are not comparable. Ryan is not a victim of abuse. The only way she can go to the police would be to betray those who have been abused and not chosen to go to the police.

A person going to the police and saying “I have been a victim and this is my story” is completely different to someone who had heard directly that they are a victim but has no evidence that it happened.

I’ll ask it directly. What do you expect Ryan to have gone to the police with?

I would have expected her to go to the police and told them why she was so certain. Then keep following it up. And follow it up again, because if you are certain then surely that is what you would do?

If you decide not to then you're not helping to stop the abuser abusing again.

When I worked at college we had a safeguarding department. As lecturers (in fact all staff) we were trained to spot the signs of abuse, ill health, anguish, manipulation, extremism, behavioural changes etc. It was in our contracts that we must report this, which I did a number of times. We were told we must report this even if our initial chat with the person resulted in the student saying 'Please don't say anything'. A difficult dilemma because of student/teacher confidentiality and a possible breaking of ongoing trust.

Plus we were also trained to report to Prevent with any extremism worries

I know for certain that one of my students wrote to the college thanking the college for intervening (they did all the hard work). She had escaped an abusive relationship. I reported it because this woman (not a child) came to class with two black eyes. Our safeguarding department did their job. In other cases I heard nothing more, only that the cases were still being monitored.

And this reporting happened even though I was not certain.

Strewth, if this woman had come to me and blurted it all out that her husband had been beating her (it's still not 'proof' but I may have seen it as certain) I would have gone and banged down the door of our Safeguarding department and demanded that they get the police involved or I would do it myself (possibly costing me my job for not following 'process').

What would you do in the Brand case if you were certain that he was guilty of committing a crime (but had no actual proof)?

SpoonMan · September 2023

Shrews said:

euan said:

Shrews said:

…

They are not comparable. Ryan is not a victim of abuse. The only way she can go to the police would be to betray those who have been abused and not chosen to go to the police.

A person going to the police and saying “I have been a victim and this is my story” is completely different to someone who had heard directly that they are a victim but has no evidence that it happened.

I’ll ask it directly. What do you expect Ryan to have gone to the police with?

I would have expected her to go to the police and told them why she was so certain. Then keep following it up. And follow it up again, because if you are certain then surely that is what you would do?

If you decide not to then you're not helping to stop the abuser abusing again.

When I worked at college we had a safeguarding department. As lecturers (in fact all staff) we were trained to spot the signs of abuse, ill health, anguish, manipulation, extremism, behavioural changes etc. It was in our contracts that we must report this, which I did a number of times. We were told we must report this even if our initial chat with the person resulted in the student saying 'Please don't say anything'. A difficult dilemma because of student/teacher confidentiality and a possible breaking of ongoing trust.

Plus we were also trained to report to Prevent with any extremism worries

I know for certain that one of my students wrote to the college thanking the college for intervening (they did all the hard work). She had escaped an abusive relationship. I reported it because this woman (not a child) came to class with two black eyes. Our safeguarding department did their job. In other cases I heard nothing more, only that the cases were still being monitored.

And this reporting happened even though I was not certain.

Strewth, if this woman had come to me and blurted it all out that her husband had been beating her (it's still not 'proof' but I may have seen it as certain) I would have gone and banged down the door of our Safeguarding department and demanded that they get the police involved or I would do it myself (possibly costing me my job for not following 'process').

What would you do in the Brand case if you were certain that he was guilty of committing a crime (but had no actual proof)?

In the situation you are describing (I think) I don't know what I'd do to be honest, but I'd certainly want to think about it very carefully before shouting anything from the rooftops because there could be a great chance of making things worse for myself and for any victims.

I don't know if using people's names in hypothetical situations is really a good idea BTW.

DefaultM · September 2023

You’re saying the ideal dream world scenario, where you see something bad happening, you report it and the person is punished.
It’s certainly how I thought it worked, until I did it myself and was forced out of a job. Twice.

DefaultM · September 2023

I also recently did it at the school. Every morning I see this woman screaming at her son, threatening him and talking to her mates about how she ‘has to’ hit him all the time. So I reported her to the school and they intervened. I’m not sure why but she thought it was my wife and got very very nasty. My wife now can’t go in the school grounds without this cunt and her group of friends harassing her. What’s going to happen if I report that? She’ll probably just ramp it up even more.

Sassafras · September 2023

I've always thought Katherine Ryan was the true villain of the piece. She's targeted the lovely Russell Brand by not going to the police to report rumour & hearsay.
Plod won't even come out when you've been burgled and you expect them to come out coz you know someone who might've been burgled. Get real.
And you expect her to risk her livelihood and ability to feed her children on someone's say-so?
She comes out of this with a lot more dignity than Brand.

Where were the police when complaints came flying in against Cyril Smith and Savile years before the truth finally came out.

Sassafras · September 2023

I'm going to use Emp's analogy, would the producer of a TV talent show sign up Brand now?

TeleMaster · September 2023

Can you imagine Katherine Ryan going to the police every day screaming about an open secret, a rumour, that she's reporting on behalf of other people. The police wouldn't take it seriously. It is for the victims to report really because she may not have any dates, she may not have permission from the victims, who may not feel brave enough to cooperate. She can't do anything in this scenario and eventually shed be silenced by his lawyers and eventually placed under psychiatric care.

Proportioning any blame to her whatsoever is nonsense.

DefaultM · September 2023

Sassafras said:

I've always thought Katherine Ryan was the true villain of the piece. She's targeted the lovely Russell Brand by not going to the police to report rumour & hearsay.
Plod won't even come out when you've been burgled and you expect them to come out coz you know someone who might've been burgled. Get real.
And you expect her to risk her livelihood and ability to feed her children on someone's say-so?
She comes out of this with a lot more dignity than Brand.

Where were the police when complaints came flying in against Cyril Smith and Savile years before the truth finally came out.

They came out twice when we had an attempted burglary. Once to get all the information, and again to compliment my wife on the best description they’d ever had. Along with the video she took of them using a crowbar on our back door it allowed them to know exactly who it was.
Nothing they could do though unfortunately! Oh shucks! Don’t worry though, they’re sure they won’t try our house again now my wife’s scared them off!

Sassafras · September 2023

DefaultM said:

Sassafras said:

I've always thought Katherine Ryan was the true villain of the piece. She's targeted the lovely Russell Brand by not going to the police to report rumour & hearsay.
Plod won't even come out when you've been burgled and you expect them to come out coz you know someone who might've been burgled. Get real.
And you expect her to risk her livelihood and ability to feed her children on someone's say-so?
She comes out of this with a lot more dignity than Brand.

Where were the police when complaints came flying in against Cyril Smith and Savile years before the truth finally came out.

They came out twice when we had an attempted burglary. Once to get all the information, and again to compliment my wife on the best description they’d ever had. Along with the video she took of them using a crowbar on our back door it allowed them to know exactly who it was.
Nothing they could do though unfortunately! Oh shucks! Don’t worry though, they’re sure they won’t try our house again now my wife’s scared them off!

That's odd, they didn't come out twice when my flat was burgled twice even though there was DNA (blood) and fingerprint evidence left at the second burglary.

TeleMaster · September 2023

As a community we called the police about 50 times for anti social behaviour in our building and they didn't come out once. Fucking useless. We had to get our local MP involved before anything was done.

Didn't come out when my motorbike was nicked, my car.

Another reason why people don't bother with them. They barely exist.

imalrightjack · September 2023

TeleMaster said:

As a community we called the police about 50 times for anti social behaviour in our building and they didn't come out once. Fucking useless. We had to get our local MP involved before anything was done.

Didn't come out when my motorbike was nicked, my car.

Another reason why people don't bother with them. They barely exist.

I know we’re veering way off here but this makes me think of an earlier comment asking why we’re not all up in arms about things that really matter, like this fucking government, the mega corporations sucking us and the world dry, etc.

DefaultM · September 2023

Sassafras said:

DefaultM said:

Sassafras said:

I've always thought Katherine Ryan was the true villain of the piece. She's targeted the lovely Russell Brand by not going to the police to report rumour & hearsay.
Plod won't even come out when you've been burgled and you expect them to come out coz you know someone who might've been burgled. Get real.
And you expect her to risk her livelihood and ability to feed her children on someone's say-so?
She comes out of this with a lot more dignity than Brand.

Where were the police when complaints came flying in against Cyril Smith and Savile years before the truth finally came out.

They came out twice when we had an attempted burglary. Once to get all the information, and again to compliment my wife on the best description they’d ever had. Along with the video she took of them using a crowbar on our back door it allowed them to know exactly who it was.
Nothing they could do though unfortunately! Oh shucks! Don’t worry though, they’re sure they won’t try our house again now my wife’s scared them off!

That's odd, they didn't come out twice when my flat was burgled twice even though there was DNA (blood) and fingerprint evidence left at the second burglary.

Maybe they had some fines to collect or some women to murder?

tony99 · September 2023

Apparently someone else has come forward to say he flashed little Russell at her, then laughed and joked about it on his depraved radio show.

TeleMaster · September 2023

imalrightjack said:

TeleMaster said:

As a community we called the police about 50 times for anti social behaviour in our building and they didn't come out once. Fucking useless. We had to get our local MP involved before anything was done.

Didn't come out when my motorbike was nicked, my car.

Another reason why people don't bother with them. They barely exist.

I know we’re veering way off here but this makes me think of an earlier comment asking why we’re not all up in arms about things that really matter, like this fucking government, the mega corporations sucking us and the world dry, etc.

That was me too. Am I the only angry one?

Philly_Q · September 2023

TeleMaster said:

imalrightjack said:

TeleMaster said:

As a community we called the police about 50 times for anti social behaviour in our building and they didn't come out once. Fucking useless. We had to get our local MP involved before anything was done.

Didn't come out when my motorbike was nicked, my car.

Another reason why people don't bother with them. They barely exist.

I know we’re veering way off here but this makes me think of an earlier comment asking why we’re not all up in arms about things that really matter, like this fucking government, the mega corporations sucking us and the world dry, etc.

That was me too. Am I the only angry one?

Because that's the nature of news. Corrupt government, dodgy corporations, the war in Ukraine, the cost of living, global warming etc will always be there, they can't be the top story every day despite their importance. They get displaced by shorter-term, inflammatory things like leaked policy documents, identity politics, natural disasters... and Russell Brand.

imalrightjack · September 2023

Philly_Q said:

TeleMaster said:

imalrightjack said:

TeleMaster said:

As a community we called the police about 50 times for anti social behaviour in our building and they didn't come out once. Fucking useless. We had to get our local MP involved before anything was done.

Didn't come out when my motorbike was nicked, my car.

Another reason why people don't bother with them. They barely exist.

I know we’re veering way off here but this makes me think of an earlier comment asking why we’re not all up in arms about things that really matter, like this fucking government, the mega corporations sucking us and the world dry, etc.

That was me too. Am I the only angry one?

Because that's the nature of news. Corrupt government, dodgy corporations, the war in Ukraine, the cost of living, global warming etc will always be there, they can't be the top story every day despite their importance. They get displaced by shorter-term, inflammatory things like leaked policy documents, identity politics, natural disasters... and Russell Brand.

It seems many people save their ire and rage for immigrants. Or, for instance, local to me (going by Facebook comments), a ‘foreign restaurant’ that is actually run by a locally very white lad - but, hey, fuck Asian fusion, it’s the root cause of all that is bad today. And we need more chip shops, obviously.

theatreanchor · September 2023

No evidence of any wrongdoing. Just banter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66882644

TeleMaster · September 2023

Philly_Q said:

TeleMaster said:

imalrightjack said:

TeleMaster said:

As a community we called the police about 50 times for anti social behaviour in our building and they didn't come out once. Fucking useless. We had to get our local MP involved before anything was done.

Didn't come out when my motorbike was nicked, my car.

Another reason why people don't bother with them. They barely exist.

I know we’re veering way off here but this makes me think of an earlier comment asking why we’re not all up in arms about things that really matter, like this fucking government, the mega corporations sucking us and the world dry, etc.

That was me too. Am I the only angry one?

Because that's the nature of news. Corrupt government, dodgy corporations, the war in Ukraine, the cost of living, global warming etc will always be there, they can't be the top story every day despite their importance. They get displaced by shorter-term, inflammatory things like leaked policy documents, identity politics, natural disasters... and Russell Brand.

Yea but I'm not really talking about the news, I'm talking about people's acceptance of the slow dive of everything around them into a pit of shit, where they barely say anything and then come out in force about some bollocks like speed limits being reduced a bit around schools.

Petepassion · September 2023

DefaultM said:

I also recently did it at the school. Every morning I see this woman screaming at her son, threatening him and talking to her mates about how she ‘has to’ hit him all the time. So I reported her to the school and they intervened. I’m not sure why but she thought it was my wife and got very very nasty. My wife now can’t go in the school grounds without this cunt and her group of friends harassing her. What’s going to happen if I report that? She’ll probably just ramp it up even more.

I had to report a mum hitting her child, I couldn’t stand by and do nothing, they were both going through hell, it was only going to get worse if nothing was done. I don’t know what the right thing is to do, but for me, I couldn’t ignore it. I even made it known to the mum that I was the one who reported the incident. If this happens in public, what goes on behind closed doors?
Her child was taken away, she finally got the help she had been crying out for and then her child came back home. Today they are in a much better place.

I’m not saying this is the right thing to do, only that in this particular instance it worked in everyone’s best interests

DefaultM · September 2023

I think his mistake and eventual downfall will be the fact that he did these things and then went and told everyone he’d just done them…

DefaultM · September 2023

Petepassion said:

DefaultM said:

I also recently did it at the school. Every morning I see this woman screaming at her son, threatening him and talking to her mates about how she ‘has to’ hit him all the time. So I reported her to the school and they intervened. I’m not sure why but she thought it was my wife and got very very nasty. My wife now can’t go in the school grounds without this cunt and her group of friends harassing her. What’s going to happen if I report that? She’ll probably just ramp it up even more.

I had to report a mum hitting her child, I couldn’t stand by and do nothing, they were both going through hell, it was only going to get worse if nothing was done. I don’t know what the right thing is to do, but for me, I couldn’t ignore it. I even made it known to the mum that I was the one who reported the incident. If this happens in public, what goes on behind closed doors?
Her child was taken away, she finally got the help she had been crying out for and then her child came back home. Today they are in a much better place.
I’m not saying this is the right thing to do, only that in this particular instance it worked in everyone’s best interests

The day after I did it this woman basically stood in the playground and held court, saying she knows there’s a grass and she’s gonna get them. Ranting on about how its her kid and she’ll do what she sees fit, and she’s said to the school “wouldn’t you hit him if he was yours? Lololol”.
Obviously all front cos I think she’s had a serious talking to, but I fear I’ve messed with a nutcase.

euan · September 2023

theatreanchor said:

No evidence of any wrongdoing. Just banter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66882644

Why didn’t she spend over a decade going to the police about this?

Petepassion · September 2023

DefaultM said:

Petepassion said:

DefaultM said:

I also recently did it at the school. Every morning I see this woman screaming at her son, threatening him and talking to her mates about how she ‘has to’ hit him all the time. So I reported her to the school and they intervened. I’m not sure why but she thought it was my wife and got very very nasty. My wife now can’t go in the school grounds without this cunt and her group of friends harassing her. What’s going to happen if I report that? She’ll probably just ramp it up even more.

I had to report a mum hitting her child, I couldn’t stand by and do nothing, they were both going through hell, it was only going to get worse if nothing was done. I don’t know what the right thing is to do, but for me, I couldn’t ignore it. I even made it known to the mum that I was the one who reported the incident. If this happens in public, what goes on behind closed doors?
Her child was taken away, she finally got the help she had been crying out for and then her child came back home. Today they are in a much better place.
I’m not saying this is the right thing to do, only that in this particular instance it worked in everyone’s best interests

The day after I did it this woman basically stood in the playground and held court, saying she knows there’s a grass and she’s gonna get them. Ranting on about how its her kid and she’ll do what she sees fit, and she’s said to the school “wouldn’t you hit him if he was yours? Lololol”.
Obviously all front cos I think she’s had a serious talking to, but I fear I’ve messed with a nutcase.

It’s a difficult one, we all react differently, but personally I think we should not ignore this shit, some kids are going through hell. There are many different opinions on how to discipline and raise a child but when it comes to hitting(and I don’t mean a little slap on the leg) a child, something needs to be done.

Placidcasual79 · September 2023

Petepassion

DefaultM

I did just over ten years as a child protection social worker - part of the job was to sort through the referrals we received over the previous 24 hours - from parents, police, schools and health professionals.

Sadly it's hard for social services to act on a lot of referrals - often there is good cause for concern - but your rights as a parent protect you from anyone involving themselves in your life unless there is demonstrable evidence of significant harm being caused (and rightly so) - significant harm is an intentionally subjective term so it can be tested in court - and of course the evidence (that would allow social services to intervene) must also be able to be challenged in court.

The system is therefore set up so that many of the concerns people report are difficult for social services to act on in anything other than a voluntary capacity - you can approach the parent and ask if they are having difficulties or if they'd like support - but if they say no your going to struggle to do much more. When there is physical or recorded evidence social services have a legal obligation to intervene and can also involve the police in their investigation.

That can make it seem a bit futile to report concerns. - but I'd hope it isn't - as well as satisfying what I feel is a moral obligation to report concerns about a child's wellbeing, referrals that can't be actioned easily are often used to build up a picture of whats going on in a family's life and can help justify an intervention because of an accumulation of concerns rather than one issue.

If you report your concerns to children's services (which is what the school should have/probably did you have the legal right to remain anonymous - and lots of people do - that way you've done something with your issue but shouldn't have to worry about any come back.

DefaultM · September 2023

I would like to think I’ve made it better for the kid because she never does it in the playground anymore. The worry is social services or whoever have done nothing and he now gets it worse at home to make up for it.

Placidcasual79 · September 2023

DefaultM said:

I would like to think I’ve made it better for the kid because she never does it in the playground anymore. The worry is social services or whoever have done nothing and he now gets it worse at home to make up for it.

Regardless of anything else the fact that it's not happening on the playground has got to be a positive. Your right of course - the chances of reporting an incident to social services and them doing 'nothing' is sadly quite high.

Philly_Q · September 2023

TeleMaster said:

Philly_Q said:

TeleMaster said:

imalrightjack said:

TeleMaster said:

As a community we called the police about 50 times for anti social behaviour in our building and they didn't come out once. Fucking useless. We had to get our local MP involved before anything was done.

Didn't come out when my motorbike was nicked, my car.

Another reason why people don't bother with them. They barely exist.

I know we’re veering way off here but this makes me think of an earlier comment asking why we’re not all up in arms about things that really matter, like this fucking government, the mega corporations sucking us and the world dry, etc.

That was me too. Am I the only angry one?

Because that's the nature of news. Corrupt government, dodgy corporations, the war in Ukraine, the cost of living, global warming etc will always be there, they can't be the top story every day despite their importance. They get displaced by shorter-term, inflammatory things like leaked policy documents, identity politics, natural disasters... and Russell Brand.

Yea but I'm not really talking about the news, I'm talking about people's acceptance of the slow dive of everything around them into a pit of shit, where they barely say anything and then come out in force about some bollocks like speed limits being reduced a bit around schools.

What can we do though? We get one vote every five years. Unless you're going to say we should organise protest marches, and I'll be honest, I am never going to do that. Or stage an armed rebellion... and I would not support that, no matter how worthy the cause.

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