A dull argument about "feel"

Seziertisch · August 2023

A further example of “feel” can be heard, or rather not really heard, on YouTube channels that pride themselves on using loud amps live in the room such as That Pedal Show.

Asides from some natural feedback happening the recordings don’t really sound significantly better than any/many of the other channels using modellers. Playing beside a loud amp “feels” a lot nicer/meatier than listening over studio monitors but sonically the differences are almost negligible, particularly after the YouTube algorithm has done its worst.

Sometimes on TPS they guys are making sex faces in relation to what they are feeling but there is no particularly discernible sonic difference.

LastMantra · August 2023

prlgmnr said:

LastMantra if you're actually genuinely interested in this and not just being a knob for jollies, head over to the Mesa Boogie website, have a look at the manual for the Mark V and look at how many references there are to different settings directly affecting the feel of the strings, and then maybe ponder why an amp manufacturer would put that in their manual if it was just made up bullshit on a forum.

Yup, thanks. I've just read the first few pages. Not got to the bit about "directly affecting the feel of the strings", but it's interesting, I shall persevere.

soma1975 · August 2023

LastMantra said:

No I certainly will not. If you don't like it you know what to do.

I'm asking a straight question and getting a whole load of bullshit from a small clique trying to feel superior by saying they have some kind of sixth sense that others don't possess.

It's that kind of crap that puts a whoooole lot of people posting here

Just because language is inexact and nobody has come up with a universally agreed upon quantifiable definition of 'feel' it does not mean the thing does not exist.

The relationship is between your touch on the instrument and the not just the sound but the immediacy, the decay, the attack, the compression and how fast it responds to your touch is what for me constitutes feel.

To the listener you might not hear any difference at all between me playing Amp A and Amp B but I might have to change the approach to how I attack the instrument to get Amp A responding in the way Amp B does.

No idea what all this clique bollocks you are on about is but how about we just discuss things without becoming children about stuff that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. It's unbecoming.

GoFish · August 2023

prlgmnr said:

LastMantra if you're actually genuinely interested in this and not just being a knob for jollies, head over to the Mesa Boogie website, have a look at the manual for the Mark V and look at how many references there are to different settings directly affecting the feel of the strings, and then maybe ponder why an amp manufacturer would put that in their manual if it was just made up bullshit on a forum.

TBF, Paul Reed Smith has harped on about some guitar tops talking him off if he runs his fingers across them or something like that and I remain unconvinced.

soma1975 · August 2023

LastMantra said:

Which is basically my point if people can't agree on what it actually is why say it?

It's confusing and and makes out there's some sort of unobtainable knowledge involved.

It's like when some people say bell-like to describe position 2 and 4 on a Strat.

To me, I just think of it describing some of the posts on this forum...

Cirrus · August 2023

If you don't know what feel is after 5 pages of people trying to help you find it, you ain't got none. Your playing is bad and you are bad. Your breath stinks and you should be shot into the sun.

NEXT

LastMantra · August 2023

Cirrus said:

If you don't know what feel is after 5 pages of people trying to help you find it, you ain't got none. Your playing is bad and you are bad. Your breath stinks and you should be shot into the sun.

NEXT

Be careful or you'll get the same mod PMs that I got.

What am I saying, of course you won't

GoldenEraGuitars · August 2023

LastMantra said:

Cirrus said:

If you don't know what feel is after 5 pages of people trying to help you find it, you ain't got none. Your playing is bad and you are bad. Your breath stinks and you should be shot into the sun.

NEXT

Be careful or you'll get the same mod PMs that I got.

What am I saying, of course you won't

Jeez man, chill out and step away from it.

You’re really embarrassing yourself. Not that I have any vested interest in this thread, but you’re goading for a fight and no one here actually cares.

It’s Saturday night, go and pour yourself and watch a movie.

LastMantra · August 2023

GoldenEraGuitars said:

LastMantra said:

Cirrus said:

If you don't know what feel is after 5 pages of people trying to help you find it, you ain't got none. Your playing is bad and you are bad. Your breath stinks and you should be shot into the sun.

NEXT

Be careful or you'll get the same mod PMs that I got.

What am I saying, of course you won't

Jeez man, chill out and step away from it.

You’re really embarrassing yourself. Not that I have any vested interest in this thread, but you’re goading for a fight and no one here actually cares.

It’s Saturday night, go and pour yourself and watch a movie.

Who rattled your cage?

I'm not arguing with myself here. Other people are involved

I'm sitting watching TV with a cuppa and a bit of weed. I'm fine thanks.

Ddigger · August 2023

darthed1981 said:

"All those over-drive pedals from £20 to £250 sound remarkably similar, so any one, including the cheap one, will do the job"

The BD circuit (well the Cinders pedal I have) has powerful controls and can provide a clean boost all the way up to something fuzzy. There are no bad sounds, maybe some you don't want or like, but very usable, rather than a one trick pony.

NickB · August 2023

Having read through the whole thread it’s about what sound makes you happy. With regards to the initial video we cannot say what is the best overdrive pedal nor can we determine each pedal’s feel.
Several reasons
1) The amp not set to get the best out of each pedal. There was only one amp setting.
2) The speaker used might not suit the eq of the pedal and vice versa
3) The output and pickups of the guitar used will affect each pedal differently
4) Too many variables.

I recommend that y’all watch the Jim Lil video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8GiF-GVLgg

darthed1981 · August 2023

GoFish said:

darthed1981 said:

I think what we are missing is that you could quite easily watch that video and come away with these two conclusions...

"All those over-drive pedals from £20 to £250 sound remarkably similar, so any one, including the cheap one, will do the job".

or

"There are subtle differences between those pedals that will be very important to some people, and will influence their buying decision, which given its an Andertons video, is the point"

Both are totally correct and neither implies ignorance/can't play/delusions etc...

So everyone kiss and make up

My lips are puckered and I'm ready for my kiss

Well OK but no tongues...right?

Sassafras · August 2023

LastMantra said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

LastMantra said:

Cirrus said:

If you don't know what feel is after 5 pages of people trying to help you find it, you ain't got none. Your playing is bad and you are bad. Your breath stinks and you should be shot into the sun.

NEXT

Be careful or you'll get the same mod PMs that I got.

What am I saying, of course you won't

Jeez man, chill out and step away from it.

You’re really embarrassing yourself. Not that I have any vested interest in this thread, but you’re goading for a fight and no one here actually cares.

It’s Saturday night, go and pour yourself and watch a movie.

Who rattled your cage?

I'm not arguing with myself here. Other people are involved

I'm sitting watching TV with a cuppa and a bit of weed. I'm fine thanks.

Ah, that explains it, weed always had a detrimental effect on me as well.

Cirrus · August 2023

I always thought that feel is the difference between what you intend to play and what comes out the speakers. Nobody else knows what you meant to play, they only hear what came out the speakers. So compression, the transition between clean and dirty, they're things that everyone hears but only you know where on that non-linear curve you hope to be vs where you are. Really good rigs, the difference surprises you in a good way and make you feel better than you are. Shit rigs will take your dreams and you'll find yourself banging your head against the Last Mantra brick wall on a Saturday night.

english_bob · August 2023

Cirrus said:

I always thought that feel is the difference between what you intend to play and what comes out the speakers. Nobody else knows what you meant to play, they only hear what came out the speakers. So compression, the transition between clean and dirty, they're things that everyone hears but only you know where on that non-linear curve you hope to be vs where you are. Really good rigs, the difference surprises you in a good way and make you feel better than you are. Shit rigs will take your dreams and you'll find yourself banging your head against the Last Mantra brick wall on a Saturday night.

This. Having sort of started this mess I've been trying to definite exactly what I meant by "feel", and this is it. It's all the extra information you have as the player about how the sound coming from the speaker correlates to your intention.

Hattigol · August 2023

@LastMantra alleges clique.

@LastMantra gets banned.

Interesting.

p90fool · August 2023

NickB said:

With regards to the initial video we cannot say what is the best overdrive pedal nor can we determine each pedal’s feel.
Several reasons
1) The amp not set to get the best out of each pedal. There was only one amp setting.

This, absolutely. Why do demo videos persist in this?

I have no idea why you would not try to dial in the best sound you can get out of a piece of gear. Nobody gigs or records with all knobs set to 12 o'clock, so why is it such a persistent dogma in comparison videos?

I've noticed this before, but there's a warm, farty, midrangey guitar tone all over YouTube now, and it's not a tone you will ever hear on any record. Boosting that with half a dozen different mid-humped OD pedals makes it even worse

GoFish · August 2023

Hattigol said:

@LastMantra alleges clique.

@LastMantra gets banned.

Interesting.

That's your take on this? LastMantra the Martyr? A shadowy cabal hell bent on gatekeeping the secrets of th toanz?

p90fool said:

...

I've noticed this before, but there's a warm, farty, midrangey guitar tone all over YouTube now, and it's not a tone you will ever hear on any record. Boosting that with half a dozen different mid-humped OD pedals makes it even worse

My take is that Influencers and the socials prioritise this sort of tone for 3 reasons:

1) It makes for easier comparisons - viewers can see all the knobs, there's a sheen of scientiic method, the sound is percieved to be "neutral" and useful for comparisons etc.

2) Most listeners will have a tinny, mid-forward listening setup with laptop of phone speakers. My laptop speakers are great, but they're all midrange and useless for critical listening.

3) Records usuall involve more than one instrument, somethime even more than one player

digitalscream · August 2023

Hattigol said:

@LastMantra alleges clique.

@LastMantra gets banned.

Interesting.

Not actually what happened.

Also, he's not banned.

darthed1981 · August 2023

p90fool said:

NickB said:

With regards to the initial video we cannot say what is the best overdrive pedal nor can we determine each pedal’s feel.
Several reasons
1) The amp not set to get the best out of each pedal. There was only one amp setting.

This, absolutely. Why do demo videos persist in this?

I have no idea why you would not try to dial in the best sound you can get out of a piece of gear. Nobody gigs or records with all knobs set to 12 o'clock, so why is it such a persistent dogma in comparison videos?

I've noticed this before, but there's a warm, farty, midrangey guitar tone all over YouTube now, and it's not a tone you will ever hear on any record. Boosting that with half a dozen different mid-humped OD pedals makes it even worse

Two reasons I suspect, both practical...

1. Andertons sell all those pedals, the video was made so people would watch it and buy one or more of them, nothing else - "best" is so utterly subjective it's all a bit silly.
2. If they spent time dialling in each pedal to sound their "best" it would take forever, and "best" would just be "make them more how Rabea likes" in any case, which isn't necessarily the "tone" anyone is looking for. Besides what Rabea wants will change depending if he's recording a nice ballad with his charming girlfriend Hannah, or playing with Stormzy, or whatever else he does.

Youtube videos are a lot of fun, and a concession to the fact many of us don't have a good local guitar shop any more. If we DID it wouldn't be the kind of box-shifting monster that stocks thirty different overdrive pedals either.

So Andertons will probably generate a few thousand orders for OD pedals on that video based on other stuff, like...

"Ooooh that will look good on my board"
"I love the lights on that"
"That Thorpy pedal is an OD and Boost... coool!"

It's clearly pretty unfair as well - I bet there are a lot more different tones you can get from the Thorpy than from a lot of the others, and it lasts one "round".

Hattigol · August 2023

digitalscream said:

Hattigol said:

@LastMantra alleges clique.

@LastMantra gets banned.

Interesting.

Not actually what happened.

Also, he's not banned.

My mistake. Roland said he'd gone 'not at his own request'.

Hattigol · August 2023

GoFish said:

Hattigol said:

@LastMantra alleges clique.

@LastMantra gets banned.

Interesting.

That's your take on this? LastMantra the Martyr? A shadowy cabal hell bent on gatekeeping the secrets of th toanz?

Where did I say any of that?

Appreciate you might need someone new to argue with now he's gone but not happening here. Sorry.

soma1975 · August 2023

Yeah but he feels banned.

Cirrus · August 2023

soma1975 said:

Yeah but he feels banned.

I have never loved a stranger more.

Snags · August 2023

soma1975 said:

Yeah but he feels banned.

How would he know?

Boromedic · August 2023

soma1975 said:

Yeah but he feels banned.

Amazing

made me proper laugh out loud!

roberty · August 2023

GoFish said:

Hattigol said:

@LastMantra alleges clique.

@LastMantra gets banned.

Interesting.

That's your take on this? LastMantra the Martyr?

Feel not thy compression, and covet not thy neighbour's transients

Rowby1 · August 2023

Back on topic after the shenanigans, YouTube demos are pretty useless. I only buy pedals I’ve actually tried with my own rig now as they are only part of the signal chain with multiple variables.

In the last couple of years I’ve bought two amps on the basis of multiple video demos and even user reviews on here and they’ve been incredibly disappointing. Both moved on or returned.

There’s no substitute for trying stuff out in the flesh with the other gear you’re used to using.

GoFish · August 2023

Some stuff you can tell instantly once you try. Others take a few goes (days or even weeks) to decide it is close but not quite. They are the dangerous ones to try in a shop as you still buy them but can't return...

Sassafras · August 2023

Buy the stuff, sell or return it if you don't like it.
You don't need youtube to give you a vague inaccurate idea of what a pedal sounds like.
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A dull argument about "feel"

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