The Football Thread.

TeleMaster · May 2022

DefaultM said:

TeleMaster said:
I thought the Paul Merston documentary was powerful but yea, that's convinced me.

I've not seen it, does he win?

Umm. Not really, no.

DefaultM · May 2022

The thing is that if gambling and alcohol didn't exist then the people that are super unhappy with life would just find something else to fuck themselves up with.

I can comfortably gamble when I want and stop whenever I want, but I'd have to admit I'm addicted to food. I will have my tea at 19:00 and then sometimes I'll go have another meal near midnight after eating loads of crisps in between. I wasn't even hungry the other day so I didn't cook my tea, but then it got to 21:30 and I still wasn't hungry but cos I'd not had my tea I felt I was missing it and ordered a curry.
I go in the bookies and see them all losing money and kicking off screaming. If I lose my money it doesn't bother me because it's completely under control in my brain, but then I'm meant to be driving straight home after that and I suddenly find myself in the chip shop. I'll tear myself apart for that later.

It's ridiculous but it doesn't mean it's the food's fault, or the adverts for the food. It doesn't mean it's Just Eat's fault for bringing me the curry I otherwise wouldn't have been able to get. Everyone has access to Just Eat but they don't all panic order takeaways and force them down.

TeleMaster · May 2022

Sure, for many it's fine, but for many it's not.

People don't always becoming addicted to things because they're unhappy or have a predisposition to it. They can get addicted purely because of environmental and social actors that end up changing the way their brain works.

The constant adverts all over football are absolutely a factor and reason for why people, especially young people are enticed into it before they have the skills and development to really understand what they're doing to their brains, their finances, and their lives overall. The facts, the studies are clear, this is extremely detrimental to people's health, addition is a disease and it should be banned from advertisements during games and as team sponsors just like cigarettes and alcohol was.

And if you want to relate it to the food thing for you, the sugar, MSG, salt content in the food you eat absolutely will make you crave it.

Adverts will make you want it because your brain reacts in a certain way when it gets certain foods because of long term exposure to certain substances. So the more sugar, the more MSG you consume, the more adverts you see at particular times, the more impulsive you/I/people will be about consuming those foods.

We do not have as much control or self awareness over our impulses and desires as we like to think and we shouldn't encourage that in people by having non stop advertising of gambling.

The fact is the gambling lobby is today's tobacco lobby. And they're complete and utter crooks who have no regard for people's health. I'm not saying ban it, but get some proper regulation going ffs because it ruins many, many peoples lives.

TTony · May 2022

TeleMaster said:

The fact is the gambling lobby is today's tobacco lobby. And they're complete and utter crooks who have no regard for people's health. I'm not saying ban it, but get some proper regulation going ffs because it ruins many, many peoples lives.

I was about to post pretty much that exact comment.

At some point in the not-too-distant (I hope) future, the gambling industry will be treated in the same way as the tobacco industry is today.

And sport will have to find another source of money to fund its excesses.

guitars4you · May 2022

Bidley said:

Fabio Carvalho's gone to Liverpool then. Hope he enjoys his handful of Carabao Cup games over the next few years before ending up somewhere like Steaua Bucharest.

Maybe so - But Alex Ox Chamberlain will be on his way out - Milner is getting on - LFC tend to buy the 'next' player before they are needed - Whilst they now have cover for Robinson they don't for AA - So gives him a chance - Admittedly cup matches inc those CL matches when they've already qualified plus last 10-20 mins of a PL match when they have already won

I've always thought he looked handy and there was a time I think Bielsa/Leeds were interested in him for that overlapping full back role - So I've had an eye on him a bit

However I do agree that many such promising talent gets watered down on the bench of a big club, before disappearing somewhere below where they originally came from

mrkb · May 2022

Philly_Q said:

TeleMaster said:

Bidley said:

Fabio Carvalho's gone to Liverpool then. Hope he enjoys his handful of Carabao Cup games over the next few years before ending up somewhere like Steaua Bucharest.

At the point of his career he's probably happy to be paid as well as he is going to be.

Money aside, I'm always surprised by footballers who decide to go from being a big (or even potentially) big fish in a small pond to being a minnow in a big pond.

But I guess professional sportspeople are a different breed. They all have to believe that they're capable of making it to the very top, or they probably wouldn't make it at all. It's only late in their careers that they realise their limitations and settle for a steady income somewhere in League One.

If they didn’t they’d be seen as having the Matthew Le Tissier effect- talented but no drive to win anything, and a bit lazy.

DefaultM · May 2022

TeleMaster said:

Sure, for many it's fine, but for many it's not.

People don't always becoming addicted to things because they're unhappy or have a predisposition to it. They can get addicted purely because of environmental and social actors that end up changing the way their brain works.

The constant adverts all over football are absolutely a factor and reason for why people, especially young people are enticed into it before they have the skills and development to really understand what they're doing to their brains, their finances, and their lives overall. The facts, the studies are clear, this is extremely detrimental to people's health, addition is a disease and it should be banned from advertisements during games and as team sponsors just like cigarettes and alcohol was.

And if you want to relate it to the food thing for you, the sugar, MSG, salt content in the food you eat absolutely will make you crave it.

Adverts will make you want it because your brain reacts in a certain way when it gets certain foods because of long term exposure to certain substances. So the more sugar, the more MSG you consume, the more adverts you see at particular times, the more impulsive you/I/people will be about consuming those foods.

We do not have as much control or self awareness over our impulses and desires as we like to think and we shouldn't encourage that in people by having non stop advertising of gambling.

The fact is the gambling lobby is today's tobacco lobby. And they're complete and utter crooks who have no regard for people's health. I'm not saying ban it, but get some proper regulation going ffs because it ruins many, many peoples lives.

Interesting. So like when I wasn't hungry but it got to 21:30 and I felt like I needed a curry, that's because they fill it with addictive things?

DefaultM · May 2022

Not really thought about the gambling adverts in UK football, but America is going big on it at the minute.
I immediately noticed them come in to UFC. Odds flashing up all the time, how much people are gambling (so and so just put 100k on etc), the odds system they use assume your minimum stake is $100 which is daft.
I think they're actively trying to get people to gamble large amounts on that which I don't agree with. I know the gambling companies are all on football shirts, but I've never heard the commentator say "stick £100 on this now and you'll get £500 if it wins" or even mention gambling like in UFC.

TeleMaster · May 2022

DefaultM said:

TeleMaster said:

Sure, for many it's fine, but for many it's not.

People don't always becoming addicted to things because they're unhappy or have a predisposition to it. They can get addicted purely because of environmental and social actors that end up changing the way their brain works.

The constant adverts all over football are absolutely a factor and reason for why people, especially young people are enticed into it before they have the skills and development to really understand what they're doing to their brains, their finances, and their lives overall. The facts, the studies are clear, this is extremely detrimental to people's health, addition is a disease and it should be banned from advertisements during games and as team sponsors just like cigarettes and alcohol was.

And if you want to relate it to the food thing for you, the sugar, MSG, salt content in the food you eat absolutely will make you crave it.

Adverts will make you want it because your brain reacts in a certain way when it gets certain foods because of long term exposure to certain substances. So the more sugar, the more MSG you consume, the more adverts you see at particular times, the more impulsive you/I/people will be about consuming those foods.

We do not have as much control or self awareness over our impulses and desires as we like to think and we shouldn't encourage that in people by having non stop advertising of gambling.

The fact is the gambling lobby is today's tobacco lobby. And they're complete and utter crooks who have no regard for people's health. I'm not saying ban it, but get some proper regulation going ffs because it ruins many, many peoples lives.

Interesting. So like when I wasn't hungry but it got to 21:30 and I felt like I needed a curry, that's because they fill it with addictive things?

Well I dunno. But when you think of certain foods certain things happen in your pleasure centres in your brain so that you want those foods. It becomes addictive. These pathways are there because of foods with high sugar, salt, MSG etc. These things can be triggered by adverts etc.

DefaultM said:

Not really thought about the gambling adverts in UK football, but America is going big on it at the minute.
I immediately noticed them come in to UFC. Odds flashing up all the time, how much people are gambling (so and so just put 100k on etc), the odds system they use assume your minimum stake is $100 which is daft.
I think they're actively trying to get people to gamble large amounts on that which I don't agree with. I know the gambling companies are all on football shirts, but I've never heard the commentator say "stick £100 on this now and you'll get £500 if it wins" or even mention gambling like in UFC.

It's not just the shirts. Watch a Premier league game and watch the adverts. It is all gambling. The billboards, on the shirts. Odds flash up on screen. That Merson documentary (you should watch it on iPlayer) showed a study and it found that in a single game a person is exposed to thousands of images of gambling within that two hour period.

DefaultM · May 2022

So if you watch a Premier League game on Sky Sports or whatever it is, in the commentary the announcer will talk about odds?
It sounds like it's a sort of multi pronged subliminal messaging, but will it make your regular guy who never thought about gambling want to start? Or is it targeted directly at a certain sort of person that their research showed they could take advantage of? (Which is also awful)

TeleMaster · May 2022

DefaultM said:

So if you watch a Premier League game on Sky Sports or whatever it is, in the commentary the announcer will talk about odds?
It sounds like it's a sort of multi pronged subliminal messaging, but will it make your regular guy who never thought about gambling want to start? Or is it targeted directly at a certain sort of person that their research showed they could take advantage of? (Which is also awful)

No the commentator doesn't talk about the odds. But every advert before the game is gambling., People like Ray Winstone going 'BET NAOWWWWW' all the way through the advert, all the billboards, the shirts, the sponsors. It's not subliminal, it's literally in your face from the get go.

I guess if you've got to adulthood, and you're in your 30's and you don't bet, I would imagine there's little chance you'\d start. But if you're 12 and it's completely normalised and you can get it on your phone, I wouldn't be surprised if it was harder to not gamble than it was to gamble.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/05/gambling-logos-feature-700-times-in-football-match-says-ch4-documentary

thecolourbox · May 2022

In some ways I consider my season ticket an annual gamble, betting £300 on the being something worth watching at some point. The last few years this has not been a gamble that has paid off

DefaultM · May 2022

Read the article and I'd actually not thought about casino stuff. That's not on at all, they shouldn't be allowed to advertise that on TV.
Sports it's possible to beat the bookie, but there's nothing you can do on roulette, you're guaranteed to lose over time.
There's a young man that is literally always at the virtual roulette machine whenever I go in the bookies. PLACE YOUR BETS - He just randomly jabs his finger all over the screen until it says NO MORE BETS PLEASE, he watches it spin and then just goes again with no emotion.
He might be laundering money now I think about it...

tony99 · May 2022

DefaultM said:
There's a young man that is literally always at the virtual roulette machine whenever I go in the bookies.

You might be in there as much as him to be fair.

TeleMaster · May 2022

DefaultM said:

Read the article and I'd actually not thought about casino stuff. That's not on at all, they shouldn't be allowed to advertise that on TV.
Sports it's possible to beat the bookie, but there's nothing you can do on roulette, you're guaranteed to lose over time.
There's a young man that is literally always at the virtual roulette machine whenever I go in the bookies. PLACE YOUR BETS - He just randomly jabs his finger all over the screen until it says NO MORE BETS PLEASE, he watches it spin and then just goes again with no emotion.
He might be laundering money now I think about it...

I don't think they should be allowed to advertise the betting either. It really is just too much.

DefaultM · May 2022

tony99 said:

DefaultM said:
There's a young man that is literally always at the virtual roulette machine whenever I go in the bookies.

You might be in there as much as him to be fair.

Nah, I go for the bonus hour at dinner time. You've got to listen and every few minutes they'll give out a special offer. Some of them are rubbish, but others are free money. Then I go back before tea sometimes if I see another special offer on twitter or something.
The same people are always in there no matter when I go.

guitars4you · May 2022

So what are Man U fans wanting/expecting for the new 22/23 season

For now it looks the same old, from MCFC and LFC as they'll both march on to 90 plus points

Spurs with a full season under Conte with 1 or 2 key signings should make a stronger show - Certainly need more consistency

Chelsea - Might have to wait until all the dust settles down, from the change of owners, as to where they buy/sell - I think they'll miss Rudiger and whilst Thiago is a class act, he is getting on another year - Maybe a silly statement, but they need a striker as Lukaku just not working, for whatever reason - Yet they were the 3rd best in the goal scoring league last season and the 3rd best GD

So just thinking that it won't be an easy gig for Man U to walk/sneak into a CL spot next season

The only way that LFC and MCFC will avoid not hitting 90 + points, is if collectively, West Ham, Man U, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea can raid some points from them - Restrict MCFC and LFC to 80 odd points and you can make it a 2-4 race for the title - Great for many of us to watch a closer race for the title - Yet I have to say that MCFC and LFC are possibly playing the best PL football we've ever seen

TTony · May 2022

guitars4you said:

The only way that LFC and MCFC will avoid not hitting 90 + points, is if collectively, West Ham, Man U, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea can raid some points from them -

To be fair, we - Spurs - beat MCFC twice last season (and they only lost 3 over the season) and drew with Liverpool twice. That took a few points from the both of them. So, it can be done.

But then we let Burnley take 5 points from us ... at least that won't happen again next season!

axisus · May 2022

As a Man U fan I want top 4 next season. I think he's the right manager for the job, but personally I'd give him 4 years however the first season goes.

I thought that we were a shoe-in for top 4 this season (boy was I wrong!) but I don't think that the team is as bad as everyone is saying. So many people don't understand sport/team games. You can be like City and L'pool and be on an amazing cohesive high collectively, and likewise you can end up as the opposite of that. Erik TH needs to 'reset' the team and get their belief back, then move on from there.

Can't wait for the next season, I hate the summer when there's no football leagues playing

TeleMaster · May 2022

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

The only way that LFC and MCFC will avoid not hitting 90 + points, is if collectively, West Ham, Man U, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea can raid some points from them -

To be fair, we - Spurs - beat MCFC twice last season (and they only lost 3 over the season) and drew with Liverpool twice. That took a few points from the both of them. So, it can be done.

But then we let Burnley take 5 points from us ... at least that won't happen again next season!

And West Ham beat Liverpool, Chelsea and drew with City. We also knocked them out of the cup.

Watching us play these teams, they are very susceptible to the counter attack. That's how we scored against them. If you press very strongly and with a very high line you will get caught out. There is a defense to every playing style, and if you have fast players with good defensive skills who can also score, you can beat this high press.

I think Ten Hag means business. I see a steely determination and Man UTD have got some fantastic players. Ronaldo, Sancho, Fernandes, De Gea, Cavani, Rashford. It shouldn't take a lot to start achieving if they can bring in a decent central defender and CM.

guitars4you · May 2022

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

The only way that LFC and MCFC will avoid not hitting 90 + points, is if collectively, West Ham, Man U, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea can raid some points from them -

To be fair, we - Spurs - beat MCFC twice last season (and they only lost 3 over the season) and drew with Liverpool twice. That took a few points from the both of them. So, it can be done.

But then we let Burnley take 5 points from us ... at least that won't happen again next season!

I was aware of the former when I was typing my info - I suppose Arsenal will tell you they took points of Leicester, when the Foxes won the title - But an assault on LFC and MCFC collectively is the only way we'll get back to a more competitive league and bring them down into the 80 point range - I don't see Spurs/Chelsea moving up to 90+ points

But then we let Burnley take 5 points from us - It took me a min to work that out - I assume you you mean you lost 5 points to Burnley, so assume you lost one game and drew another - But that only means Burnley took 4 points themselves from those fixtures

bloodandtears · May 2022

guitars4you said:

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

The only way that LFC and MCFC will avoid not hitting 90 + points, is if collectively, West Ham, Man U, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea can raid some points from them -

To be fair, we - Spurs - beat MCFC twice last season (and they only lost 3 over the season) and drew with Liverpool twice. That took a few points from the both of them. So, it can be done.

But then we let Burnley take 5 points from us ... at least that won't happen again next season!

I was aware of the former when I was typing my info - I suppose Arsenal will tell you they took points of Leicester, when the Foxes won the title - But an assault on LFC and MCFC collectively is the only way we'll get back to a more competitive league and bring them down into the 80 point range - I don't see Spurs/Chelsea moving up to 90+ points

But then we let Burnley take 5 points from us - It took me a min to work that out - I assume you you mean you lost 5 points to Burnley, so assume you lost one game and drew another - But that only means Burnley took 4 points themselves from those fixtures

Burnley v Spurs 1-0

Spurs v Burnley 1-0

I was at both games, not sure where the 5 points are??

guitars4you · May 2022

axisus said:

As a Man U fan I want top 4 next season. I think he's the right manager for the job, but personally I'd give him 4 years however the first season goes.

I thought that we were a shoe-in for top 4 this season (boy was I wrong!) but I don't think that the team is as bad as everyone is saying. So many people don't understand sport/team games. You can be like City and L'pool and be on an amazing cohesive high collectively, and likewise you can end up as the opposite of that. Erik TH needs to 'reset' the team and get their belief back, then move on from there.

Can't wait for the next season, I hate the summer when there's no football leagues playing

Agree that on paper they are/should be a force to be reckoned with - So on that basis it is the game plan, drive, attitude, style of play etc etc that is not right - I know there is more to it than that - Some egos on the pitch - Players not playing for the manager - Manager not able to portray his ideas - Wrong players in wrong positions for those ideas etc - A good team needs an identity - Even Wimbledon had one

Then ensure that Bruno stops his moaning/complaining character and gets back to what they brought him for

I don't even think the defence is as bad as some make out - Again on paper it should not be and Lindleof is no mug - Probably one good buy for them would be a deep midfield player who can help protect the back 4, plus be that 1/4 back style role, who can find the killer pass from distance - Phillips ain't going there and I don't think Rice will

TTony · May 2022

bloodandtears said:

guitars4you said:

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

The only way that LFC and MCFC will avoid not hitting 90 + points, is if collectively, West Ham, Man U, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea can raid some points from them -

To be fair, we - Spurs - beat MCFC twice last season (and they only lost 3 over the season) and drew with Liverpool twice. That took a few points from the both of them. So, it can be done.

But then we let Burnley take 5 points from us ... at least that won't happen again next season!

I was aware of the former when I was typing my info - I suppose Arsenal will tell you they took points of Leicester, when the Foxes won the title - But an assault on LFC and MCFC collectively is the only way we'll get back to a more competitive league and bring them down into the 80 point range - I don't see Spurs/Chelsea moving up to 90+ points

But then we let Burnley take 5 points from us - It took me a min to work that out - I assume you you mean you lost 5 points to Burnley, so assume you lost one game and drew another - But that only means Burnley took 4 points themselves from those fixtures

Burnley v Spurs 1-0
Spurs v Burnley 1-0

I was at both games, not sure where the 5 points are??

D'oh - You are of course right!

guitars4you · May 2022

TeleMaster said:

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

The only way that LFC and MCFC will avoid not hitting 90 + points, is if collectively, West Ham, Man U, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea can raid some points from them -

To be fair, we - Spurs - beat MCFC twice last season (and they only lost 3 over the season) and drew with Liverpool twice. That took a few points from the both of them. So, it can be done.

But then we let Burnley take 5 points from us ... at least that won't happen again next season!

And West Ham beat Liverpool, Chelsea and drew with City. We also knocked them out of the cup.

Watching us play these teams, they are very susceptible to the counter attack. That's how we scored against them. If you press very strongly and with a very high line you will get caught out. There is a defense to every playing style, and if you have fast players with good defensive skills who can also score, you can beat this high press.

I think Ten Hag means business. I see a steely determination and Man UTD have got some fantastic players. Ronaldo, Sancho, Fernandes, De Gea, Cavani, Rashford. It shouldn't take a lot to start achieving if they can bring in a decent central defender and CM.

I think you are right - Yet LFC have a keeper, who stats for a one on one player on the attack against him, are vastly superior to anyone else - Vastly superior - So with VVD and Alisson they are less susceptible to this and when it does happen more often than not it does not hurt them

TeleMaster · May 2022

guitars4you said:

TeleMaster said:

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

The only way that LFC and MCFC will avoid not hitting 90 + points, is if collectively, West Ham, Man U, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea can raid some points from them -

To be fair, we - Spurs - beat MCFC twice last season (and they only lost 3 over the season) and drew with Liverpool twice. That took a few points from the both of them. So, it can be done.

But then we let Burnley take 5 points from us ... at least that won't happen again next season!

And West Ham beat Liverpool, Chelsea and drew with City. We also knocked them out of the cup.

Watching us play these teams, they are very susceptible to the counter attack. That's how we scored against them. If you press very strongly and with a very high line you will get caught out. There is a defense to every playing style, and if you have fast players with good defensive skills who can also score, you can beat this high press.

I think Ten Hag means business. I see a steely determination and Man UTD have got some fantastic players. Ronaldo, Sancho, Fernandes, De Gea, Cavani, Rashford. It shouldn't take a lot to start achieving if they can bring in a decent central defender and CM.

I think you are right - Yet LFC have a keeper, who stats for a one on one player on the attack against him, are vastly superior to anyone else - Vastly superior - So with VVD and Alisson they are less susceptible to this and when it does happen more often than not it does not hurt them

True. Except, West Ham 3 Liverpool 2.

Rocker · May 2022

ITV Racing is really a forum for gambling adverts with a little bit of horse racing thrown in.

guitars4you · May 2022

TeleMaster said:

guitars4you said:

TeleMaster said:

TTony said:

guitars4you said:

The only way that LFC and MCFC will avoid not hitting 90 + points, is if collectively, West Ham, Man U, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea can raid some points from them -

To be fair, we - Spurs - beat MCFC twice last season (and they only lost 3 over the season) and drew with Liverpool twice. That took a few points from the both of them. So, it can be done.

But then we let Burnley take 5 points from us ... at least that won't happen again next season!

And West Ham beat Liverpool, Chelsea and drew with City. We also knocked them out of the cup.

Watching us play these teams, they are very susceptible to the counter attack. That's how we scored against them. If you press very strongly and with a very high line you will get caught out. There is a defense to every playing style, and if you have fast players with good defensive skills who can also score, you can beat this high press.

I think Ten Hag means business. I see a steely determination and Man UTD have got some fantastic players. Ronaldo, Sancho, Fernandes, De Gea, Cavani, Rashford. It shouldn't take a lot to start achieving if they can bring in a decent central defender and CM.

I think you are right - Yet LFC have a keeper, who stats for a one on one player on the attack against him, are vastly superior to anyone else - Vastly superior - So with VVD and Alisson they are less susceptible to this and when it does happen more often than not it does not hurt them

True. Except, West Ham 3 Liverpool 2.

agree that if we'd beaten LFC I'd be in 7th heaven about it - Forgot we beat Citeh at their place the previous year 2-1 and we only had 10 men and the final goal was a counter attack as you say - But one swallow doesn't make a summer - My point is that the current teams in 3rd-8th positions are not going to suddenly rise to 90 points to take on LFC and MCFC - Between them they need to raid more points from those two clubs and get a title fight going with 3-4 clubs all in the 80 point range

TTony · May 2022

TeleMaster said:
True. Except, West Ham 3 Liverpool 2.

Exactly.

As you said - there's a defence (and an offense!) to most playing styles. If the manager can work out what it is, and you've got the players to apply it, there's always a chance...

guitars4you · May 2022

I'm sure there are many examples of a bad transfer deal - But this takes some beating

Danny Drinkwater - 35 Mill in 2017 - So a 5 year deal - Granted he was part of the Leicester winning title and in a Leicester team, a good player - But no way was he ever going to be a good player out of Leicester IMO - As someone mentioned earlier, you are sometimes better being a star in your own club and playing at a comfortable ability, as against being a total nothing in a big club - Not sure where he'll go next, but I'm guessing the EFL, if he stays in England - At best, a newly promoted EFL club to the PL and a squad player at that and not on a big deal (ie Forest/Huddersfield)

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