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*An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.
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*An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.
The Football thread - Off Topic Discussions on theFretBoard
https://speakerimpedance.co.uk/?act=two_parallel&page=calculator
And also outplay them - according to Pele (and me)
Comparing eras is stupid.
If you went back in a Doleran and brought Pele in his prime to a Premier League game today he wouldn't even touch the ball. The game is so technical, so fast, the players are such athletes that it wouldn't even be a contest, so a like for like comparison just makes no sense. See this as an example.
But if you were to take an 8 year old Pele and bring him to 2012 and gave him all the benefits of modern sports science, tactics would he have been able to compete at the top level in 2023 or would he have had a limit? You have to assume he would be a top player but we will never know.
Also, calling it recency bias is unfair. The level of competition was just worlds apart even in the early 90's to what it was in the 00's, when sports science really took off. The game is vastly superior today to Pele's day so you can only really judge players based on the era they played in, and he was one of, if not the best of his time and that means he gets to sit at the best ever table with the likes of Best, Cryuff, Maradona, Platini, Van Basten, Harry Maguire, Di Stefano, Moore, Henry, CR7, R9, Messi etc.
The cheating alone destroys, IMO, any chance he could have ever had to be considered a great player and to laugh it of as sometime kind of hand of God incident , rubs it in further
Ben Johnson was crucified for cheating and Maradona should have received the same treatment
Nostalgia for me will always say Pele - First WC I saw was 1970 and as such probably the greatest team ever played in that tournament - Many will not realise, or even forget, that the Brazilian forward line all played #10 for their appropriate clubs - Jairzinho, Gerson, Tostoa, Pele and Rivelino - All #10 and no wingers or centre forwards
As a person Pele always came across as a nice humble guy and Messi never has the chip on his shoulder that Ronaldo has - I think Messi's assist is far higher than Ronaldo - If you watch Messi score he will nearly always ensure it is a team celebration and go to who ever set up the assist - Ronaldo will alway make it out to be me - Yes I scored it and I'll let you know its me and no one else could have scored it, other than me
I'm glad I've seen them both, on TV and have fond memories of both - I'll happily say Pele or Messi is the best - Ron's ego will stop me saying he is the best and Maradona is not even invented to the party
So how could you compare M Johnson, to Campese, to Jonah, to Carter, to McCaw, to B John or G Edwards - All mighty influential in their appropriate roles - But none of them are the best
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg_imQDC4eUOjuBBRl2mBwA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyQgllCIpqY
https://rozaliftwave.bandcamp.com/
I think it was part of the magic of the WC back then that you saw these 'god like' stars - And only saw them every 4 years - Even the equivalent of the CL back then was only televised for the final - So we barely ever saw the likes of Cruyff - Kempes in 1978 was I think the first 'overseas' player I was aware of from South America, prior to the WC as he had played in Spain - I think 1978 was also his last game/tournament for Argentina - Cruyff had moved to Barca but such moves were still rare - Kempes and Cruyff both retired from international football far to early, for one reason or another
Yes the modern game is fast, but you get great players like Modric and Pirlo who are not your typical athletic pacy players - They just have a great footballing brain and awareness and can run a game whilst still strolling about
I know cheating is common practice in the game, but for such players to glorify it makes it worse
But then add Maradona's drug antics, both social and performance enhancing, then he has no right to be considered a global icon - He should have recieved the same disgraceful outcome as per Ben Johnson and indeed Lance Armstrong
And don't forget his nice kick to the Brazilian players balls/groin, in the WC in 1982 when he was sent off - Yes I'm sure he was a nice guy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So you dismiss Maradona because he was open with his cheating, while other players deny theirs?
I don't consider him a global icon - he was for sure drug fueled lunatic of some sort. But I thought that this thread was purely about talent and football skills.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg_imQDC4eUOjuBBRl2mBwA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyQgllCIpqY
https://rozaliftwave.bandcamp.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg_imQDC4eUOjuBBRl2mBwA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyQgllCIpqY
https://rozaliftwave.bandcamp.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg_imQDC4eUOjuBBRl2mBwA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyQgllCIpqY
https://rozaliftwave.bandcamp.com/
Do you believe that if you plucked Pele out of the 60's, during his prime and picked him for the Champions League final 2023 that he would've been the best player on the pitch, and wouldn't have found real difficulties with the modern demands of dealing wih a high press, or even penetrating a low block, and dealing with counter attacking football, 6ft 5 defenders and goalkeepers who play like playmakers? Do you think he would've had no issue whatsoever eith the pace, the level of technical ability, the athleticism?
-----(2)C.Alberto-----(4)Beckenbauer-----(3)Maldini-----
(Tactic: lob it up to the 7 up front and go to the Winchester for a pint)
(7) Best--------------(5) Zidane----(6)Messi---------------(11)C.Ronaldo
------------(10)Maradona------(9)Pele------(8)Cruyff---------------
B Team
--------------------------(1)Banks------------------------------
-----(2)Vogts-----(4)Moore-----(3)R.Carlos-----
(Tactic: lob it up to the 7 up front and go to the Winchester for a pint with the A Team defenders)
(7) Jairzinho--------------(5) Di Stefano----(6)Zico---------------(11)Gullit
------------(10)Eusebio------(9)Ronaldo------(8)Puskas---------------