The Rugby Union Thread

Offset · October 2023

scrumhalf said:

What’s being overlooked is that Danny Care, about to draw his pension, is our best 9 in the squad.

Yes, we thought precisely this.

p90fool · October 2023

sev112 said:

It occurs to me the difference between the very good sides in this WC and the others is that the runners SPRINt onto the ball and into attack, wheras the others especially England “run” and then are surprised when the 15 man line of defence tackles them

Ireland yesterdays their speed of individuals in attack is soo much faster than England and their ilk who seem to almost jog onto the ball. Wales are miles better when they do this but don’t always, Samoa yesterday were amazing when they did this

You're not wrong, but it's more about timing and communication than about effort or individual pace.

You can't sprint onto a popped pass if the scrum half has to fight for it in the ruck and ends up putting it behind you.

It's very hard to get momentum from the backs without top class recycling from the forwards.

digitalscream · October 2023

sev112 said:

It occurs to me the difference between the very good sides in this WC and the others is that the runners SPRINt onto the ball and into attack, wheras the others especially England “run” and then are surprised when the 15 man line of defence tackles them

The biggest thing I've noticed about England is that, about 70% of the time, they stop before contact. That's as well as just not taking the ball at speed (which is the bare minimum you'd expect from professional players), and the complete lack of tactical awareness with decoy runners etc.

I've seen better rugby played by sixth form teams. There's just no ambition or desire - they're playing negatively, as though they're just trying not to lose.

Now, you could forgive this given that there's a new coach and a new setup...if it was a new team completely unfamiliar with each other. However, Borthwick is basically playing the exact same team Eddie Jones failed with - most of them have had years playing together at international level. He's even trying to play the same daft experiments - Farrell at 12 doesn't work, especially with Tuilagi at 13, because that completely nullifies the best parts of both of their games; it was an interesting gimmick to begin with, because it foxed teams who weren't expecting it. Once every other team in the world figured it out, and exploited the gaping hole caused by a lack of mass at 12, it should've been chucked in the bin.

I guess the problem is that Ford is a better fly half than Farrell, and Farrell can't be dropped because that's the rule.

The end result is that Borthwick is failing in exactly the same way as Jones did. We scraped through the easiest pool (the points totals don't come close to showing what really happened in each of the games), and if Fiji don't dump us out of the tournament it's going to be a cricket score in the semis.

HerrMetal · October 2023

Things that piss me off about rugby. One. Endless scrum resets wasting huge amounts of playing time. Yep, we had that again for about the first time in the tournament. Two. People (in fairness mostly Andy "sideways glance, look up, look down, sideways glance, rinse, repeat" Farrell) taking f**king forever to kick at goal. How I chuckled when the timer hit zero.

guitars4you · October 2023

HerrMetal said:

Things that piss me off about rugby. One. Endless scrum resets wasting huge amounts of playing time. Yep, we had that again for about the first time in the tournament. Two. People (in fairness mostly Andy "sideways glance, look up, look down, sideways glance, rinse, repeat" Farrell) taking f**king forever to kick at goal. How I chuckled when the timer hit zero.

100% agree and that clock is still ticking down during the scrum resets and the kicks at goal

Simple analysis- 8 kicks at goals in a match, which is perfectly acceptable, and you have spent 10% of the game with 29 players just hanging around doing nothing - The time spent with the ball in play is far to low IMO - Maybe I’m considered a peasant, to many, as I prefer to watch Rugby League , certainly at club level, but the ball is in play far more than in Union

Farrell has always taken to long IMO with his extended preparation before taking his kicks - I find him boring to watch- IMO a #10 should have flair, vision and skill - in comparison to the likes of B Barrett he is well behind- Very bland as a player- I think if it wasn’t for his kicking he’d have been dropped a long time ago

scrumhalf · October 2023

For years the England game has been based on taking the ball into contact and recycling it. Again, and again. Offloading ranked just behind dropping your shorts during the national anthem.

It's dull, and it's not attracting new players to the game or new spectators.

Why bother to pick wingers? Pick a couple of props at 11 and 14 and try and rumble over from 22 metres out.

The domestic game us about to crash. There isn't enough (legitimate) money to pay players what they think they are worth. The RFU are about to bugger up the Prem 2/Championship reform.

How many top domestic teams play exciting rugby?

Blaendulais · October 2023

The sad thing is in 4 years time who do you think Borthwick will be picking. Faz for definnite. Maybe Cipriani was right and Faz seems in control of the England team. Fellow players have called him a coach. He clearly isnt a very good one. England need to move on from him and the older set after this world cup but I wouldnt be surprised to see all the usual names on the new 20 joint contracts.

crunchman · October 2023

Offset said:

scrumhalf said:

What’s being overlooked is that Danny Care, about to draw his pension, is our best 9 in the squad.

Yes, we thought precisely this.

The problem is that his game time has to be managed because of his age. If he starts and plays 60 minutes he will probably be wrecked for the next match. I can understand Borthwick using him off the bench.

I can't understand him continuing to pick Farrell at 12 though. It completely negates Tuilagi. It also seems to inhibit whoever is playing 10, whether that's Ford or Smith.

sev112 · October 2023

20 contracts : I couldn’t even get to 10 that (a) deserve it through performance at international level, and (b) will be around in 4 years time (both criteria compulsory)

Genge
George (captain)
Chessum
Earl
Ludlum
Willis
Mercer
no scrum half
Smith
no centres
no wingers
Steward

Note no Sinckler or Itoje, the latter of who has not performed for the past 2 to 3 years. Arundel etc have not done enough yet to deserve a contract

Dr_Necessiter · October 2023

What I couldn’t work out (yeah Chinese writing too) is is why we didn’t just draw a line under Jones, imagine the way you’d want to play in 2027 and pick a squad that you hoped were capable of that and might get us there. Wright this one off and look forward.

There didn’t need to be this zombie apocalypse of reliance on players past their play by date before the last World Cup. Had Borthwick done that he would have been forgiven much, but it looks like he’s morphing into how he was as captain of England. Dogged, dyed in the wool and incapable of seeing how to improve a failing side.

Nitefly · October 2023

Good match this afternoon, between Japan and Argentina. Japan were getting back into it until the last 20 minutes.

guitars4you · October 2023

Nitefly said:

Good match this afternoon, between Japan and Argentina. Japan were getting back into it until the last 20 minutes.

Surely time that Japan were part of the 'Championship' every year now - But is it with NZ, SA, Aussies and Argies ?

Schnozz · October 2023

Claire Thomas' commentary is fucking woeful.

sev112 · October 2023

We were just debating that point. Just had 4 different “superlatives” in a minute .

my wife said she liked it, I said I’d like commentators to tell us what is happening in rucks

Schnozz · October 2023

"Monochrome marauders, hewn from granite, going straight up the guts". She's an English literature graduate that mastered in Mills and Boon.

sev112 · October 2023

We’ve both agreed that she was much better in the last 10 mins, giving useful factual info on Fijis scrums and line outs

scrumhalf · October 2023

Blimey, are Fiji doing this to piss off the Aussies by staging a late comeback?

EDIT. They score as I typed the above.

Schnozz · October 2023

Portugal managed by Nosferatu

sev112 · October 2023

Portugallllllllllllllll

scrumhalf · October 2023

Schnozz said:

Portugal managed by Nosferatu

I thought it was Peter Stringer.

What a game, well done Portugal.

sev112 · October 2023

I think it’s Patrice Lagisquet, the 1980s French back

fretmeister · October 2023

Heh.

Rkphilpot · October 2023

Cipriani has a book out now, I expect that may make interesting reading.

koneguitarist · October 2023

New Rankings are interesting, Georgia up 1 place after losing, Portugal same place after beating team 8 places above?
Samoa down 2 places after narrow loss to team 6 places above them.

Gassage · October 2023

sev112 said:

We were just debating that point. Just had 4 different “superlatives” in a minute .

my wife said she liked it, I said I’d like commentators to tell us what is happening in rucks

'Close but no coconut'.

I mean....seriously?!

crunchman · October 2023

Is some of the dumb commentating aimed at the audience?

My mum has been watching some of the matches but has no clue what is going on. It's on ITV in prime time and there will be people like my mum watching who have no clue what a ruck is, or a maul, or the difference between them. Maybe they have gone the dumbed down commentary route deliberately.

drofluf · October 2023

crunchman said:

Is some of the dumb commentating aimed at the audience?

My mum has been watching some of the matches but has no clue what is going on. It's on ITV in prime time and there will be people like my mum watching who have no clue what a ruck is, or a maul, or the difference between them. Maybe they have gone the dumbed down commentary route deliberately.

I think that's the case; in one of the early matches I remember them explaining about touch kicks from their own 22 etc.

crunchman · October 2023

drofluf said:

crunchman said:

Is some of the dumb commentating aimed at the audience?

My mum has been watching some of the matches but has no clue what is going on. It's on ITV in prime time and there will be people like my mum watching who have no clue what a ruck is, or a maul, or the difference between them. Maybe they have gone the dumbed down commentary route deliberately.

I think that's the case; in one of the early matches I remember them explaining about touch kicks from their own 22 etc.

The NFL has two different commentaries on the Superbowl. I remember watching it on Sky Sports one year because the BBC had the dumbed down version aimed at an international audience with no clue about the game. Thankfully Sky had the usual commentary.

fretmeister · October 2023

It's not remotely as dumb as the Americans commentating on rugby.

You'll find it on youtube - it's hilarious!

drofluf · October 2023

fretmeister said:

It's not remotely as dumb as the Americans commentating on rugby.

You'll find it on youtube - it's hilarious!

Or this piece where they call Tom Youngs a prostitute https://www.indy100.com/news/insider-news-tom-youngs-prostitute-hooker-b1867092

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