The cricket thread

Dopesick · May 2018

Any channels showing cricket highlights in the evenings?

earwighoney · May 2018

Dopesick said:

Any channels showing cricket highlights in the evenings?

Channel 5 at 7pm

Heartfeltdawn · May 2018

It's doing a bit out there. Good knock by Cook, Amir bowled beautifully for no reward up to Cook's wicket. Rather fancy Jimmy and Broad will be useful on this wicket.

scrumhalf · May 2018

Oh dear.

RandallFlagg · May 2018

Dopesick said:

Any channels showing cricket highlights in the evenings?

There will be a channel back in Pakistan showing todays highlights...

scrumhalf · May 2018

RandallFlagg said:

Dopesick said:

Any channels showing cricket highlights in the evenings?

There will be a channel back in Pakistan showing todays highlights...

No highlights here. Lowlights, maybe. Snippets of play. But no highlights.

RandallFlagg · May 2018

Is Rooty still smiling like a cheeky chappy? or is the invisible weight of the pressure on his captaincy starting to furrow his brow?

scrumhalf · May 2018

Oh dear lord, are any of them capable of batting for more than ten overs?

TTony · May 2018

I remember quite a lot of analysis and commentary in the autumn / winter about why England lost so heavily when playing abroad.

The wickets were prepared differently and the home side therefore had a massive advantage. It's not quite cheating, but it's clearly not sporting, and something should be done about it to ensure fairness.

It looks like that was all bollocks, and England have just become crap at (test) cricket?

Heartfeltdawn · May 2018

We don't have a structure designed to produce quality Test cricketers.

We have a lot of counties playing on pitches that won't produce Test cricketers.

We have a cricket board fixated on the short form.

We have the IPL taking some players who then are meant to come over from there and play at Test level. It mostly doesn't work.

Michael Vaughan was tearing into Bayliss the other day: waste of time, MV. When Trevor came in, he was charged by the ECB to improve England as a one-day team. To facilitate this, schedules were changed. Have a look at the 2015 county cricket fixture list (Bayliss came in at the end of May 2015) and compare it to this year's fixture list.

The signs back then pointed to a dilution of first-class cricket and the 3-2 Ashes victory backed this up. Despite our victory, it had some statistical quirks:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=9249;type=series

England's top four runscorers rattled up 1290 runs: Australia 1607.

Australia's bowlers took 80 wickets for a total of 2187 runs at an average of 27. Our bowlers took 80 wickets for 2424 runs at 30. We won games on low slow pitches (the Cardiff craphole being a prime example) and via a crazy Trent Bridge spell. 3-2 as a final result was astounding considering we had Lyth opening (dumped), Buttler in the side, Moeen Ali was still a fill-in spinner, middle order was still a bit squiffy.

The games we lost in 2015 at Lords and at the Oval came on good batting wickets. Australia cashed in with the bat, we were rolled out for pisspoor scores. Those wickets we collapsed on with bat and ball in 2015 were not dissimilar to the wickets we collapsed on last winter in Australia. We collapse on those wickets because we don't have the pace or spin bowlers to utilise them at present (our main pace and bounce man in Finn is still making a comeback. Lyon took wickets against us: Moeen didn't and right now you wonder how the hell he will come back into Test cricket) and our younger batsmen don't get enough time on those types of wickets to learn how to bat for long periods. Equally good pitches teach bowlers how to bowl a spell on a pitch that isn't helping them. In England the part time seamer plays a major role. A bowler goes for a few, bring on the dibbly dobbly stuff.

The real wonder of cricket is having different conditions. A wicket in Islamabad shouldn't be the same as a wicket in Durham or Barbados. It isn't just England who generally lose heavily overseas: it's India when they come here, it's Australia when they come here. Tours used to have plenty of warm-up cricket. They don't now.

It says everything about England that Dominic Bess is now being praised as being right for Test cricket because he's scored some runs and has yet to take a wicket.

scrumhalf · May 2018

Well, that wasn't a total surprise.

It seems to be a trend that:
1) England bat and lose four wickets for 100 runs.
2) The next couple of wickets put up some sort of a fight.
3) And then we collapse again.

We have young batsmen who play more white-ball cricket than red-ball, is it any surprise that they can't bat for a couple of sessions? We've got a problem with our bowling attack as well, if Anderson and Broad don't fire we're fucked. And suddenly, we can't catch anything in the slips.

It's not as if successive pundits/journalists/average punters haven't said this was likely to happen. Still, let's have 100 balls of pyjama cricket with lots of music to attract new people to the game (to replace all those who will no longer pay good money to see abject performances).

Heartfeltdawn · May 2018

It's no surprise we collapsed this morning. After that storm last night, it's warm, humid, close to perfect for seam bowling, and they had a new ball due an over after play started.

-Joe Root averages 52.56 at 4 in 26 matches. In 18 matches at 3 it's 43. Don't bloody move him.

-Bye Stoneman.

So here's my squad for the next Test.

Cook
Jos Buttler
Joe Clarke
Joe Root
Dawid Malan
Bairstow
Stokes
Bess
Broad
Anderson
Wood

Joe Clarke doesn't play on a road of a wicket at Worcestershire. He's organised, compact, and I like him. Drop him in there, give him a go.

Buttler opening is the bit you'll probably all scream at. WHHHHHHHHHHY HFD, WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHY? Simple: we've heard all this shit about how you can go from IPL to Test cricket. Buttler was opening in the IPL this year. So fuck it, if you're going to play him, don't bat him down at sodding 7. Stick him up the top of the order and tell him to go and play like Sehwag. We're used to being 1 down for sod all anyway so we won't lose out if he fails.

scrumhalf · May 2018

I don't thnk the comparison to Sehwag holds water for the red-ball game.

Root has to go back to 4, it's where he's been at his best and we can't risk him at anything less than his optimum position. However, our top order is so flakey that there's often only an over or two between coming in at 3 and coming in at 4.

The next Test is at Headingly, I think. I'd bring in Woakes for Wood if the weather looks right.

Heartfeltdawn · May 2018

scrumhalf said:

I don't thnk the comparison to Sehwag holds water for the red-ball game.

Root has to go back to 4, it's where he's been at his best and we can't risk him at anything less than his optimum position. However, our top order is so flakey that there's often only an over or two between coming in at 3 and coming in at 4.

The next Test is at Headingly, I think. I'd bring in Woakes for Wood if the weather looks right.

On evidence of respective achievements, no it doesn't, but I'm not basing it on that. If you have Buttler there, what is the point of playing him down at 7? He's in my side because England want him, not because I do but my dream of James Hildreth getting a cap looks dead...

I wouldn't change the bowlers because they did alright considering the fielders had a major case of the whoopsies.

scrumhalf · May 2018

Heartfeltdawn said:

I wouldn't change the bowlers because they did alright considering the fielders had a major case of the whoopsies.

Aah, you're quoting John Arlott, aren't you?

I heard a story a while ago which almost seems relevant now. England were playing the West Indies and the two team captains came to give their teams to the umpires (or whoever). The England captain was in his whites, blazer and cap. Viv Richards was wearing an old t-shirt, shorts and flip-flops. The England captain started to read out his team. After three names Viv interrupted him and waved his hand dismissively. "Man, doesn't matter who you've got playing."

I tend to feel a bit like that now. We're so used to collapsing that we may as well reverse the batting order and have Broad and Anderson facing the new ball.

sixstringsupplies · May 2018

I really don't rate Wood. He has had plenty of chances, appreciate he has had injuries. After 12 tests he has yet to take better than a 3'fer.

Where's Finn? Is he still injured? At least takes wickets.

I would also remove Root from the captaincy. I would bring in Eoin Morgan just to be captain and stick him at 6-7 in the batting order. Assuming the top order perform, as they should, his runs would be a bonus. Not to forget he actually has a test century, against Pakistan. England need an innovative captain, bit like Michael Vaughan used to be. Let Root bat at 4 and leave him to it.

Hameed has to play. Stoneman has to go.

Also think Bayliss has to go. Not necessarily blaming him but a general change in team culture needs to happen.

ECB won't sack him however, as they want him to coach at the world cup. He is not interested in spliting the coach role and only coaching the one day team.

Heartfeltdawn · May 2018

@scrumhalf it's getting like that. There seems to be no plan in place for Test development. I couldn't name one player who is better now than at the start of Bayliss's time as coach. Even Root isn't hitting the heights. Consider the Test he played before Byliss came in and then afterwards:

27 Tests, 2273 runs at 54, 6 hundreds.
41 Tests, 3642 hundreds at 51.29, 7 hundreds.

I know the average is only a tad lower but it's that reduction in fifty to hundred conversion that is the problem. I'd suggest that even someone like Stokes isn't exactly pulling up trees with England considering his talent.

@sixstringsupplies Hameed is currently in the Lancs 2nd Xi after averaging under 6 this year for the 1st XI (and that includes a game against a university side). Morgs in the Test side... let's not be too hasty.

Hick81 · May 2018

@Heartfeltdawn Think you are spot on about Bayliss, nobodies kicked on and I don’t think he’s even unearthered any gems. Was Mo one of his picks?

Here’s my side

1. Cook
2. Jennings
3. Ali
4. Root
5. Bairstow
6. Buttler
7. Stokes
8. Woakes
9. Bess
10. Broad
11. Anderson

sixstringsupplies · May 2018

Heartfeltdawn said:

@sixstringsupplies Hameed is currently in the Lancs 2nd Xi after averaging under 6 this year for the 1st XI (and that includes a game against a university side). Morgs in the Test side... let's not be too hasty.

@Heartfeltdawn yes you’re right regarding Hameed - since he’s been in the 2nd’s he’s got a couple of hundreds though the bowling quality must be pretty dire. I don’t think he can do worse than Stoneman. As someone mentioned above Vaughan and Tresco were pretty average county players but Duncan Fletcher thought they could do it at International level.

Yeah Morg’s as captain is a bit extreme but we have a habit in this country of picking players to captain who have no captaincy experience. I feel for Joe Root.

Something has to change our test team has become pathetic the past 2-3 years.

Hick81 · May 2018

Does anyone know why Foakes doesn’t get a go (as a specialist batsman)?

I don’t watch county cricket but keep an eye on scores/results. He seems pretty consistent.

Heartfeltdawn · May 2018

@Hick81 Is your username named after Worcestershire's finest? Moeen was actually a Peter Moores pick (ODI and Test debut in 2014).

@sixstringsupplies Duncan Fletcher picked well. Vaughan, Tresco, Simon Jones, all of them had less than stellar county records at the time, and Fletcher picked on the basis that he thought they had the right mentality for Test cricket. Hameed looks like he does but you can't totally overlook form. Averaging single digits in the CC whilst Keaton Jennings has been scoring runs at the top of the Lancashire order isn't great: ending up in the 2nds even less so.

One problem with central contracts is captaincy at Test level. If a player doesn't get much county cricket, how can they gain county captaincy experience with a view to future Test captaincy? It seems through captaining the Lions. MV wasn't Yorkshire skipper if Mr Brain is working right...

Fretwired · May 2018

Why the Pakistani cricket team is better than England .. :-)

Hick81 · May 2018

Fretwired said:

Why the Pakistani cricket team is better than England .. :-)

At least he got a dignified send off

axisus · May 2018

The England team will definitely be better next test. They have just signed my mum.

Heartfeltdawn · May 2018

Michael Vaughan out with the shite again...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/44285242

"They just keep going with the same old every single week. This is just a think tank to drop Broad or James Anderson, and I hope people within the team and the management think 'could it make a just a little difference?' You never know.

"Are they winning with them at the moment? Are they bowling as well as they were three of four years ago? No. Should Chris Woakes be in the side? Well, he has a great record in English conditions."

1. Are they bowling as well as they were three or four years ago?

-From Jan 1st 2017 to the present day, James Anderson had 68 wickets in 15 Tests at 19.46. This is against a career average of 27.34. So the answer to MV there is: no, Jimmy isn't bowling as well as he was three or four years ago, he's bowling fucking better.

-From Jan 1st 2017 to the present day, Stuart Broad took 43 wickets in 15 Tests at 34. This is a bit more than his career average. So maybe there is a case for dropping him but it would be somewhat harsh after a good performance in New Zealand.

2. Should Chris Woakes be in the side? Well, he has a great record in English conditions."

-In 11 Tests, Woakes has 42 wickets at 24.28.

By comparison, Anderson in 77 Tests has 339 wickets at 24.28. So no, you're not dropping Jimmy Anderson for Chris Woakes.

So what about Broad? 253 wickets in 65 Tests at 27 is hardly shabby. But maybe we should just drop him anyway to appease Yorkshire's non-Yorkshire born finest and bring Chris Woakes in. He's in good form.. isn't he? Presumably MV has overlooked the Woakes record from Jan 1st 2017 to now: 6 Tests, 12 wickets at 60.33.

So let's get this straight: we have two innings failures with the bat, being saved partly in the second by a young guy on debut, and MV's solution is to drop one or both of our experienced guys, and entrust the attack to Mark Wood (potential but shitty injury record) and Chris Woakes, who bowled absolute fucking pies over the summer.

MV's been spending too much time around Gary Neville and has picked up a horrible case of twonkitis.

scrumhalf · May 2018

Vaughan has an amazing ability to talk common sense and utter bollocks in almost equal measure.

His in-play analysis is quite good, but if we let him loose running the game it would be all over the place.

guitars4you · June 2018

Amazing stats in a game we need to win - we have not taken 20 wickets in a match for over 10 matches

crunchman · June 2018

guitars4you said:

Amazing stats in a game we need to win - we have not taken 20 wickets in a match for over 10 matches

Thre are problems with the bowling, but it hasn't helped that the batsmen have played so badly that a lot of the time they are losing by an innings. They don't have the opportunity to take 20 wickets - although in some cases, they are conceding too big a total in the first innings which contributes to the lack of a second innings.

The other problem is that we just don't have a good spinner. The fast bowling would probably be adequate if we had a Graeme Swann.

Leach looked ok when he played - he might be able to perform a Nathan Lyon type role long term. That would be an improvement on Moeen.

scrumhalf · June 2018

Lunch on first day, and it's been a much better session.

crunchman · June 2018

Why does Broad always wait until people are talking about his place in the side to bowl well?

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