The cricket thread

guitars4you · August 2021

crunchman said:

guitars4you said:

So no Ben for the summer Test matches - Hope that now allows Sam Curran to establish the all rounder slot - Probably bat at 7, with Jos Butler at 6

This will allow 5 dedicated batsman + 4 dedicated bowlers (Root a few overs if required ) with Jos/Sam at 6/7

Need to find a way to get Foakes in if he's fit. No good having Buttler or Bairstow dropping catches and missing stumpings.

Original England squad before Stokes pulled out - so no Foakes or Woakes - : Joe Root (Yorkshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Dom Bess (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Rory Burns (Surrey), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Sam Curran (Surrey), Haseeb Hameed (Nottinghamshire), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Ollie Pope (Surrey), Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Dom Sibley (Warwickshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Mark Wood (Durham)

Stuckfast said:

I'd still rather have Woakes as all-rounder than Curran. Come to think of it I'd take Ollie Robinson ahead of Curran too.

I think Curran offers something a bit different to a 4 man attack (assuming 3 pace + 1 spin or indeed 4 pace) - Agree he is not a main line bowler if you only had a 4 man attack - But in that all rounder role he is more than useful with the ball and bat - Last time India toured he was arguably our best player

Stuckfast · August 2021

Is Olly Stone injured yet again?

That looks a fairly iffy squad without Stokes, Woakes and Foakes. Also robs us of many potential rhyming dismissals.

guitars4you · August 2021

Can't recall when he had so many places up for grabs - With only Root, Butler, Anderson, Broad guaranteed places

Otherwise I can't see who has nailed down a slot - I'd go with Sam Curran at 7 in the all rounders role (Butler to bat at 6) so pick 4 other batsman to go with Root - Pick 2 other bowlers to go with Anderson/Broad

sev112 · August 2021

I have always wondered about Sam Curran, but I am consistently proved wrong when he takes wickets, scores runs, takes high pressure situations well, and is a good fielder

crunchman · August 2021

sev112 said:

I have always wondered about Sam Curran, but I am consistently proved wrong when he takes wickets, scores runs, takes high pressure situations well, and is a good fielder

And he'll make rough for Ashwin to bowl into!

guitars4you · August 2021

Slightly weird line up - Curran in, but also an extra batsman and no spin - I thought Curran as an all rounder, batting at 7 would allow an additional 4 bowler line up , so space for 1 spin - Combination of lack of confidence in the batting line up and probably lack of confidence in the ability of our spinner options - Looking forward to a good series

scrumhalf · August 2021

Lack of a frontline spinner could hurt us in the fourth innings but...

Oh bollocks, Burns LBW in the first over.

scrumhalf · August 2021

Three down for buggerall, as usual. Bairstow playing his first first-class innings of the summer. In August!

The schedule is insane this summer. It's no sort of preparation for the Ashes. We are going to get royally thumped.

scrumhalf · August 2021

155-7.

We'll be bowling tonight at this rate.

pedalo · August 2021

Gotta stop picking these frightened kids who can’t bat. Stick YJB at the top of the order and get after them. It doesn’t look much fun for them these days.

crunchman · August 2021

pedalo said:

Gotta stop picking these frightened kids who can’t bat. Stick YJB at the top of the order and get after them. It doesn’t look much fun for them these days.

YJB isn't any better.

There are fundamental problems with the structure of our domestic game, so we just aren't producing the players. There isn't going to be a quick fix.

sev112 · August 2021

How do zinnia do it then? They are totally driven by the short form game, but seem to develop test batsmen and bowlers , and wicket keepers, and all rounders

Teetonetal · August 2021

Isn't this expected given the preparation the team has had. They have not even been playing cricket where there are 6 balls an over!

scrumhalf · August 2021

Until we treat red ball cricket as something other than a filler between 87 different varieties of the white ball game we will get wrorse.

There are technical flaws with our batting that a season of proper county championship (like it used to be) would have ironed out.

Stuckfast · August 2021

Gawd, that was depressing. Whoever is coaching the Indian pace bowlers deserves a pay rise though. Don't think I've ever seen four bowlers all swing the ball both ways with great control.

scrumhalf · August 2021

Ooh. India lose 4-15. Could get very interesting, especially with Kohli gone.

Stuckfast · August 2021

... and KL is dropped.

scrumhalf · August 2021

It's raining, no it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't, yes it is.

Grrr..

sixstringsupplies · August 2021

I predict we'll be 95-5 at the close

scrumhalf · August 2021

sixstringsupplies said:

I predict we'll be 95-5 at the close

Really? 95?

sixstringsupplies · August 2021

scrumhalf said:

sixstringsupplies said:

I predict we'll be 95-5 at the close

Really? 95?

At tea there are still a min of 52 overs to be bowled in the day, weather permitting.

If they don't get there, I would long have turned it off and get on with my weekend!

Heartfeltdawn · August 2021

sev112 said:

How do zinnia do it then? They are totally driven by the short form game, but seem to develop test batsmen and bowlers , and wicket keepers, and all rounders

Gonna presume that Zinnia means India

Because they're driven at higher levels by the short form of the game but the basics start much earlier at school and youth level and the longer format is very much still in vogue. Compare the background of Indian players to our young players and start with the wickets they play on right down to school level. The image of the instantly turning dustbowl is erroneous. Many offer the opportunity to bat for a long time. Think of Tendulkar and Kambli's record stand years back. The Harris Shield for U-16 school sides has two-day semi-finals and a three-day final. The Vijay Merchant Trophy for U-16 sides had a schedule like this for Mumbai in 2019:

https://i.imgur.com/U0WUfTF.png

When did you last se the English first class game look so rational?

Consider how one player currently at Trent Bridge started. First, the top run scorers in the 2000-01 Vijay Merchant Trophy:

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2000-01/IND_LOCAL/U16/MERCHANT/STATS/IND_LOCAL_MERCHANT_AVS_BAT_MOST_RUNS.html

Some of those names at the top: Parthiv Patel, Yusuf Pathan, Dinesh Karthik, Shikhar Dhawan, all well known players with some international success, but look lower. You'll see Pujara down there, a man who knows how to play the long innings. He was playing for Saurasthra U-16 then. One such game was a three-day match against Maharashtra U-16.

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2000-01/IND_LOCAL/U16/MERCHANT/WEST/SAU-U16_MAHA-U16_MERCHANT-W_11-13DEC2000.html

Pujara was born on Jan 25 1988. This means that he was batting at 3 for Saurashtra U-16 on 11-13 Dec 2000 before he'd turned 13. How many 12 year olds play three-day cricket here? Pujara's early introduction to the longer format is not unusual. Over here, we have people representing counties now in the RL Cup who haven't even got a ton for their league 1st XI (some of the figures on county Academy players are mindboggling to me. Success in private school cricket, limited exposure to adult 1st XI cricket in many cases, and then they struggle in the big league).

Now if young batsmen are getting a go at three-day cricket and developing the ability to bat in India, then those flatter decks mean shit all for the seamers unless they develop some useful skills and it means a workload for the slow bowlers who may have to do likewise. Good batting tracks do not just develop batsmen: they develop bowlers too. Any fuckwit can bowl on a green damp track in England early season and take wickets: it's a different matter on a Mumbai flattie in the hot sun whatever level you're playing.

There is so much wrong with our game. The way some leagues have reduced competition is miserable (my old WEPL side used to be 50 overs, 15 overs max per bowler. It's now 45 overs and 9 per bowler, with most sides using six or seven bowlers because the T20 mindset says to rotate bowlers. The 17 year old HFD would have quit the game if that had been the playing conditions back in 1999). The reliance on public school players in some areas is nauseating (take the much-heralded Bunbury Festival for U-15 players. The South West squad for the last festival in 2019 had 14 players in it: one was state school educated). I read people talk of Bumrah had he been English and how he'd have had his action coached out of him. Nah: he simply wouldn't have gotten a chance in the first place. Ultimately my whining means fuck all as the ECB plan involves a few counties going bust and reducing fixtures/congestion/strife down that way. When they do, I hope to fuck the cricketing equivalent of AFC Wimbledon emerges from the ashes.

sev112 · August 2021

@Heartfeltdawn thanks, very interesting

scrumhalf · August 2021

Well, Burns managed to bat through the first fifteen minutes...

Stuckfast · August 2021

Heartfeltdawn said:

The reliance on public school players in some areas is nauseating

This x1000.

My eldest is a pretty good cricketer. When he was 7 or 8 he was outstanding, but because we didn't send him to the Perse or the King's School Ely he didn't get to go in the nets every day of the year.

By the time he was 12 or 13 there were quite a few mediocre public school kids who had overtaken him just through being intensively coached. He trialled for the county setup every year and did well, but never got a place. Typically there'd be 16 or 17 kids in the squad of whom maybe 3 were state school educated.

But, out of all the hundreds of kids I saw in the older age groups, I can only think of two who went on to have first-class careers, and they were both state educated.

It's been interesting moving up to Yorkshire. The general standard of cricket is so much higher and more competitive, and much less dependent on private schools. Even small villages in the middle of nowhere will have a Premier League side and a really well kept ground.

crunchman · August 2021

Why bring back Moeen? The Indians will bowl short at him, and he will get out. Since 2018 he has averaged 17.8 in test cricket. You can't think of him as an allrounder any more.

guitars4you · August 2021

No Broad and maybe no Anderton

scrumhalf · August 2021

No Woakes, Stokes, Archer either. I think Woody's back, though.

Whatever became of Jake Ball and Toby Roland Jones?

guitars4you · August 2021

guitars4you said:

No Broad and maybe no Anderton

scrumhalf said:

No Woakes, Stokes, Archer either. I think Woody's back, though.

Whatever became of Jake Ball and Toby Roland Jones?

Forgot about Woakes, Stokes and Archer - So that combination is effectively our 1st choice not available

Stuckfast · August 2021

Ball was never a Test quality bowler and TRJ has missed the entire season through injury.

I'm glad they've brought Moeen back though. Whatever his faults he's a better batter and bowler than Dom Bess. And Saqib Mahmood is overdue a Test debut. Hope he plays ahead of Overton.

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