The cricket thread

jpfamps · June 2021

Fretwired said:

Robinson has a track record of controversy. He was sacked by Yorkshire because of his lifestyle.

Yes, but that could be completely unrelated to any Twitter activety. I expect there are plenty of people on this forum whose lidestyle in there early 20's was not compatible with being a professional sportsman.

Plenty of cricketers in the past might have fallen fowl of current attitudes to fitness: Andrew Flintoff for example. He looks fitter now than when he was playing!

Heartfeltdawn · June 2021

jpfamps said:

I think there is definitely a lack of facilities / interest in cricket in cities, although there also seem to be less teams in the South Cambridge league where I played from the mid 90's until about 8 years ago.

When I was at university we used to have an annual fixture again Haringey Cricket College, sadly now defunct. Keith Piper was playing for them in one fixture (we used to loose quite badly).

In the late 90s I use play cricket with some West Indian lads in North London. They were all around my age and were obviously massively into cricket, but few of their kids showed much if any interest.

Also the banks used to have amazing sport facilities, mainly in South London. I remember playng a game for Catford at Natwest's sport club and there 3rd pitch or 4th pitch. Most if not all of these have been sold off for development.

Virtually all the public schools now have extensive sport scholarship programmes, which they did not have in the 80's and 90's (Millfield being a rare exception), so they do tend to hoover up the most talented school boy players, the Vunipola brothers for example, who would not strike most people as your typical ex-public school types, and, when combined with exceptional facilities, results in a massive overrepresentation at international level.

Certainly in Wiltshire, Bath, Bristol, there are fewer teams. I played in a small Wiltshire town first. There were two clubs in that town running a total of 6 Saturday XIs of varying ability. Now that town is down to one club and a total of two Saturday XIs.
One aspect that doesn't get mentioned is the greater numbers of players involved in coaching youngsters. With so many age groups playing matches now (in my day, at club levels we had U-16s and that was it), there are a number of players who give their time to coaching and so do not play as much. The collapse of strong Sunday cricket in Wiltshire is a huge shame because I learnt loads from playing on Sundays. There is absolutely no way in the world that turning up for a T20 slog would have taught me the same things or to the same level, likewise the times I played for wandering sides in all-day games. Sixth Form for me meant Monday nets, Tuesday cup match, Wednesday pub cricket or club match, Thursday training, Friday games somewhere, Saturday league, Sunday friendly, with county youth games dropped in when and wherever. An 18 year old me couldn't do that now because the fixtures aren't there any longer.

It wasn't just the banks with fine sporting facilities. I recall some civil service grounds too and I know my father would swear to this day as to the qualities of the old Unigate Dairy cricket ground in my home town. With that home town, it's not just grounds themselves that have gone. My old primary school doesn't allow cricket in the playground. My secondary school is the same. The nets they put up have gone, the astroturf wicket they installed now has more scars on it than Jordan's boobs. The large patch of greenery in between my house and secondary school where my friends and I would all bowl, play football, and swing golf clubs... gone. The golf driving range that got loads of us into golf a couple of miles away: gone and turned into a caravan park. The avenues for non-competitive knockabout cricket are all hugely reduced, let alone actual competitive games.

Scholarships in private schools are a very double-edged sword. They have increased as you rightly say and there is no doubt that it brings prestige to the establishment. But those scholarships have also increased as the fees themselves for non-scholarship pupils have increased. The days of the middle classes being able to get into a private school are largely over so it's possible to argue that a private school revolving around scholarships for the very best sportspeople and people who can afford whacking great fees is also less inclusive than a private school with fewer scholarships and much reduced fees. It's an argument some heads of private schools themselves have made.

Gassage · June 2021

jpfamps said:

seem to be less teams in the South Cambridge league where I played from the mid 90's until about 8 years ago.

When I was at university we used to have an annual fixture again Haringey Cricket College, sadly now defunct. Keith Piper was playing for them in one fixture (we used to loose quite badly).

In the late 90s I use play cricket with some West Indian lads in North London. They were all around my age and were obviously massively into cricket, but few of their kids showed much if any interest.

Also the banks used to have amazing sport facilities, mainly in South London. I remember playng a game for Catford at Natwest's sport club and there 3rd pitch or 4th pitch. Most if not all of these have been sold off for development.

Virtually all the public schools now have extensive sport scholarship programmes, which they did not have in the 80's and 90's (Millfield being a rare exception), so they do tend to hoover up the most talented school boy players, the Vunipola brothers for example, who would not strike most people as your typical ex-public school types, and, when combined with exceptional facilities, results in a massive overreprsentation at international level.

BoE and Lloyds Bank grounds still thriving.

Re WI lads....one of the shining lights around that time, Kervin Marc, left the game to build his market stall business and couldn't get the time off to play. He was a better bowler than Alex Tudor, who was the same age/year.

UnclePsychosis · June 2021

If the ECB didn't punish Robinson then they'd be exposing themselves to all kinds of bother "the next time" an ECB employee fell foul of the same kind of issue.

An employment lawyer would have a field day with that. 'why are you punishing my client when, in a well publicised case, Mr Robinson suffered no punishment at all. This is clearly victimisation and will form the basis of our argument in court'.

When you have HR policies, equalities policies, etc., you have to follow them regardless of how inconvenient it is. The reason for this is not political correctness or 'woke culture'- its that lawyers are fucking well good at their jobs.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2021

Fretwired said:

Robinson has a track record of controversy.

So has Ben Stokes. His career didn't get shitcanned after being sent home from a Lions tour or for drink driving. So why is Robinson's career in the dumper now?

Gassage · June 2021

UnclePsychosis said:

If the ECB didn't punish Robinson then they'd be exposing themselves to all kinds of bother "the next time" an ECB employee fell foul of the same kind of issue.

An employment lawyer would have a field day with that. 'why are you punishing my client when, in a well publicised case, Mr Robinson suffered no punishment at all. This is clearly victimisation and will form the basis of our argument in court'.

When you have HR policies, equalities policies, etc., you have to follow them regardless of how inconvenient it is. The reason for this is not political correctness or 'woke culture'- its that lawyers are fucking well good at their jobs.

An employment lawyer would find it very hard to offer evidence that 1) didn't happen on ECB watch 2) was done over 7 years ago (limitation statute) 3) that has been publicly apologised for.

Besides, if someone was relying upon this event as mitigation, they'd not have a very strong case to start with.

Teetonetal · June 2021

Fretwired said:

Stuckfast said:

What do we make of banning Ollie Robinson over offensive tweets he made ten years ago? Seems way harsh to punish him now for something he did when he was a teenager which no-one seems to have complained about at the time. He won't be the first person to act like a berk at that age.

He was 18 years old and the Tweets are offensive - he was an adult. I think his career could be over - the ECB's problem will be with its sponsors which won't want Robinson in the England team, especially when England plays India or Pakistan. There are some choice Tweets about Robinson doing the rounds from people who will continue to hound him, the ECB, and their sponsors online.

The ECB has acted responsibly IMHO.

I hope we never end up being a society that doesn't allow the scope that people can change for the better.

Lots of 18 year old say a multitude of dumb things that may well be regretted should a paper pick up on them later in life.

I think it's right that the ECB take time to investigate, but that should focus on his recent behaviour and look to prove that he is no longer the same person (or projecting the same image).

The ECB also need to take action on behalf of other professional cricketers who may be called up to the squad and have to be confident that his presence in the team is not going to be an issue for the team overall. If his peers can accept he has changed, then no further issue. If the investigation doesn't turn up anything, then his career should resume as it has with others.

Stuckfast · June 2021

@jpfamps which team did you play for in South Cambs? I played for Granta and then Linton in the junior leagues, our paths may have crossed!

Moving to Yorkshire has been a bit of an eye-opener though. Cricket and rugby are so much more a part of everyday life here. Our club fields four teams on a Saturday and would have more except we don't have enough pitches. Our over 50s yesterday was at Woodhouse Grange -- it's not even a village and they have an ECB Premier League side. Junior cricket beyond U11 is still a bit dominated by private schools but there's not the same level of arrogance you used to get with the Perse School kids in Cambridge.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2021

Gassage said:

BoE and Lloyds Bank grounds still thriving.

Re WI lads....one of the shining lights around that time, Kervin Marc, left the game to build his market stall business and couldn't get the time off to play. He was a better bowler than Alex Tudor, who was the same age/year.

Tudor is five months older than me. First time facing him in county youth cricket in my mid teens, he felt 5 foot taller as well.

The reduction of West Indian involvement in the overall game in this country is a huge loss. Dunno if you ever played against them but the Bristol West Indian club in their pomp were wonderful to play against and to watch as a neutral.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2021

Teetonetal said:

The ECB also need to take action on behalf of other professional cricketers who may be called up to the squad and have to be confident that his presence in the team is not going to be an issue for the team overall. If his peers can accept he has changed, then no further issue. If the investigation doesn't turn up anything, then his career should resume as it has with others.

But enough about KP, what about Robinson?

Gassage · June 2021

As an aside, I skippered the Duke of N v Arabs on Sunday.

We won by 3 wickets, courtesy of excellent batting by Berkshire's Chris Peploe (37) and Wiltshire's Luke Stoughton (73- who posts on here) and a great spell of seam by Cheshire seamer Nick Anderson (4-62 who also got 27 red to finish the game)

I'll post a couple of pics below, but having issues linking Facebook pix.

Gassage · June 2021

Image: https://scontent.fbhx4-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/197204751_10158400226892066_50201093187757457_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=JdJZ3uGx3OAAX9LsXCL&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx4-2.fna&oh=eba35a3b140ee036f6d07bdd65b3dfd2&oe=60E52E6F

Gassage · June 2021

Image: https://scontent.fbhx4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/196125950_10158400227087066_3045003176711753935_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=0Icl4JPppr4AX91A2EN&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx4-1.fna&oh=c1de906cfe48dbda12475f812ffb4826&oe=60E5457E

Some legends of club county and minors cricket there- Mel Hussain, Steve Selwood, Chris Peploe

Heartfeltdawn · June 2021

Stuckfast said:

@jpfamps which team did you play for in South Cambs? I played for Granta and then Linton in the junior leagues, our paths may have crossed!

Moving to Yorkshire has been a bit of an eye-opener though. Cricket and rugby are so much more a part of everyday life here. Our club fields four teams on a Saturday and would have more except we don't have enough pitches. Our over 50s yesterday was at Woodhouse Grange -- it's not even a village and they have an ECB Premier League side. Junior cricket beyond U11 is still a bit dominated by private schools but there's not the same level of arrogance you used to get with the Perse School kids in Cambridge.

That's how it used to be in Wiltshire. Measuring the vibrancy of cricket in an area shouldn't be done by only looking at Saturday league cricket. Stuff like the old Tuesday night games organised by a local church, the annual youth six a side games where we'd play against a couple of female sides, pub cricket, the local cup matches... so much of that has gone in 20 years. Cultural habits change, working habits have definitely changed, and so cricket has suffered in the area.

Teetonetal · June 2021

Heartfeltdawn said:

Teetonetal said:

The ECB also need to take action on behalf of other professional cricketers who may be called up to the squad and have to be confident that his presence in the team is not going to be an issue for the team overall. If his peers can accept he has changed, then no further issue. If the investigation doesn't turn up anything, then his career should resume as it has with others.

But enough about KP, what about Robinson?

lol, maybe that should read - if his unpopularity outweighs his talent and contribution, then boot him out and blame him for losing the series/ashes/all cricket when the entire team is crap?

jpfamps · June 2021

Stuckfast said:

@jpfamps which team did you play for in South Cambs? I played for Granta and then Linton in the junior leagues, our paths may have crossed!

Moving to Yorkshire has been a bit of an eye-opener though. Cricket and rugby are so much more a part of everyday life here. Our club fields four teams on a Saturday and would have more except we don't have enough pitches. Our over 50s yesterday was at Woodhouse Grange -- it's not even a village and they have an ECB Premier League side. Junior cricket beyond U11 is still a bit dominated by private schools but there's not the same level of arrogance you used to get with the Perse School kids in Cambridge.

Babraham, from about 1995 - 2012 when unfortunatley age caught up with me.

We oscillated between the junior and senior leagues in my time and had a couple of seasons in Tucker second division, the first of which I was made captain half way through the season!

I certainly played against Linton and Granta, although not the Granta first team.I did play a couple of fixtures against Granta when I was at University and I remember getting an absolutely shocking first ball caught behind decision against their South African fast bowler, who them the temerity to berate me in bar afterwards for not walking!!

Gassage · June 2021

Heartfeltdawn said:

Gassage said:

BoE and Lloyds Bank grounds still thriving.

Re WI lads....one of the shining lights around that time, Kervin Marc, left the game to build his market stall business and couldn't get the time off to play. He was a better bowler than Alex Tudor, who was the same age/year.

Tudor is five months older than me. First time facing him in county youth cricket in my mid teens, he felt 5 foot taller as well.

The reduction of West Indian involvement in the overall game in this country is a huge loss. Dunno if you ever played against them but the Bristol West Indian club in their pomp were wonderful to play against and to watch as a neutral.

Got a cheeky 150* Minor Counties v ESCA in 1994/5 ish ironically at the old Lloyds Bank ground in Beckenham- their attack was Tudor, Kerwin and Jamie Dickson- 6'5", 6'6" and 6'7" respectively!!

Heartfeltdawn · June 2021

Teetonetal said:
lol, maybe that should read - if his unpopularity outweighs his talent and contribution, then boot him out and blame him for losing the series/ashes/all cricket when the entire team is crap?

Ed Smith knows how that feels

Heartfeltdawn · June 2021

Gassage said:

Got a cheeky 150* Minor Counties v ESCA in 1994/5 ish ironically at the old Lloyds Bank ground in Beckenham- their attack was Tudor, Kerwin and Jamie Dickson- 6'5", 6'6" and 6'7" respectively!!

Their combined heights would have been the combined height of the entire Wiltshire U-16 XI around 1994. Our batting order should have read Sleepy, Sneezy, Doc...

Gassage · June 2021

Heartfeltdawn said:

Gassage said:

Got a cheeky 150* Minor Counties v ESCA in 1994/5 ish ironically at the old Lloyds Bank ground in Beckenham- their attack was Tudor, Kerwin and Jamie Dickson- 6'5", 6'6" and 6'7" respectively!!

Their combined heights would be have the combined height of the entire Wiltshire U-16 XI around 1994. Our batting order should have read Sleepy, Sneezy, Doc...

You played with/against Luke S?

Heartfeltdawn · June 2021

jpfamps said:
I certainly played against Linton and Granta, although not the Granta first team.I did play a couple of fixtures against Granta when I was at University and I remember getting an absolutely shocking first ball caught behind decision against their South African fast bowler, who them the temerity to berate me in bar afterwards for not walking!!

You know you've made it when you've had some pissweak sledging from a Saffer quick. Mine came in an Old Boys School XI against another Old Boys School XI during their annual cricket week. One of my best friends batted at 9, I was somehow promoted to 10, and we were deep in the batting shit being seven down for under 100. Oppo had pulled in a local overseas professional who was both quick and accurate with it. He'd knocked over the top three and came back to try to wrap the innings up. Our time together could be summed up by his comment to me in the first over of our duel:

"You really are fucking shit" - "I am, and I'm still here, so hurry up and get me out".

After a few overs of not dismissing me, I break the seal and crack away a beautiful check cover drive for four. He didn't applaud, instead serenading me with "You Fucking cunt!". I elect to say nothing and simply hold the pose. I'm still holding it by the time he's back to his bowling mark and turns around, a sight which makes him visibly bristle and makes the slip cordon start giggling. The bouncer was inevitable, his yell of rage inevitable, and my friend and I put on 70-odd by end of innings. Mr Saffer didn't stick around for a drink afterwards.

Heartfeltdawn · June 2021

Gassage said:

You played with/against Luke S?

Nah, I think he was Wiltshire late 00s and I was out of the country by the start of 2003, came back in 2005, and then Hiroshima'd my knee by July 2005 which meant an end to it all. The risk of breaking it again was too great and then the ruddy stroke in 2009 meant any thoughts of cricket had to stop for ages.

Once the move back to Yokelshire is done at the end of this month, I'm going to try bowling again with a view to doing something next year if my consultant says that I don't need a full knee replacement as the expiry date on the 2005 operation was last year...

Stuckfast · June 2021

jpfamps said:

I certainly played against Linton and Granta, although not the Granta first team.I did play a couple of fixtures against Granta when I was at University and I remember getting an absolutely shocking first ball caught behind decision against their South African fast bowler, who them the temerity to berate me in bar afterwards for not walking!!

I guess you'd have played Granta seconds in the league then, I mostly played for the thirds. We didn't have a lot to do with the firsts but when the Millman League was still running the overseas player would often turn out on a Sunday. They usually found either an Aussie or a Saffer. The Aussies were generally nicer. Jason Coleman who captained the firsts for many years was a really good bloke, I still have the pads I bought off him at the end of one season!

Stuckfast · June 2021

... in fact thinking about it if it was a Saffer it was almost certainly one of the Park brothers. There were three of them and they were all bloody good cricketers. They all bowled and batted and kept wicket very well too. Garry Park went on to have a first-class career with Derbyshire and I think Lancashire.

Gassage · June 2021

Stuckfast said:

jpfamps said:

I certainly played against Linton and Granta, although not the Granta first team.I did play a couple of fixtures against Granta when I was at University and I remember getting an absolutely shocking first ball caught behind decision against their South African fast bowler, who them the temerity to berate me in bar afterwards for not walking!!

I guess you'd have played Granta seconds in the league then, I mostly played for the thirds. We didn't have a lot to do with the firsts but when the Millman League was still running the overseas player would often turn out on a Sunday. They usually found either an Aussie or a Saffer. The Aussies were generally nicer. Jason Coleman who captained the firsts for many years was a really good bloke, I still have the pads I bought off him at the end of one season!

Did you come across Chris Heron?

Stuckfast · June 2021

Don't think so, who did he play for?

Gassage · June 2021

Stuckfast said:

Don't think so, who did he play for?

Granta, I thought.

jpfamps · June 2021

Stuckfast said:

... in fact thinking about it if it was a Saffer it was almost certainly one of the Park brothers. There were three of them and they were all bloody good cricketers. They all bowled and batted and kept wicket very well too. Garry Park went on to have a first-class career with Derbyshire and I think Lancashire.

It would have been 1988 or so I played against Granta.

UnclePsychosis · June 2021

Gassage said:

UnclePsychosis said:

If the ECB didn't punish Robinson then they'd be exposing themselves to all kinds of bother "the next time" an ECB employee fell foul of the same kind of issue.

An employment lawyer would have a field day with that. 'why are you punishing my client when, in a well publicised case, Mr Robinson suffered no punishment at all. This is clearly victimisation and will form the basis of our argument in court'.

When you have HR policies, equalities policies, etc., you have to follow them regardless of how inconvenient it is. The reason for this is not political correctness or 'woke culture'- its that lawyers are fucking well good at their jobs.

An employment lawyer would find it very hard to offer evidence that 1) didn't happen on ECB watch 2) was done over 7 years ago (limitation statute) 3) that has been publicly apologised for.

Besides, if someone was relying upon this event as mitigation, they'd not have a very strong case to start with.

All of that is exactly why is 'punishment' is a slap on the wrist and a suspension from a game he probably wouldn't have played in anyway.

ECB publicly seen to do the right thing, no serious consequences for Robinson. Was always going to be the outcome.

Gassage · June 2021

Oh dear.

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