Andertons/Victory

RustySpanner · August 2023

watched about 15 mins of the KDH video and concluded that he’s a bitter young man that really needs to get out more.

I imagine he plays with himself whilst reading the comments.

I bet he can't fold his jim-jams even with the aid of a cricket bat.

euan · August 2023

swiller said:

springhead said:

swiller said:
But dont think lee is anyway a hero of the industry at all. Clearly in it for the money.

I believe he’s running a business not a charity.

exactly. He is doing rather well for himself out of it as well. Some do both though and thankfully others just do the hero bit.

darius said:

He didnt feckin hide anything. I knew. Lots of people knew. Therefore it wasnt hidden. Not a secret.
Clickbait bullshit to earn youtube clickbucks.

I never saw anything on youtube channel to suggest he was associated, quite the opposite, presented as another brand for review. I suspect im not alone.

Given he doesn’t review gear, and has made it clear that he doesn’t, Victory amps have never been reviewed by him. Only demonstrated in comparison with other amplifiers.

goldtop · August 2023

They're both right.

It was quite well hidden information and watching Martin Kidd wriggle in that podcast clip shows that he doesn't want to talk about Lee. But Andertons is a business (of which I'm a happy customer, FWIW) and its videos are not independent reviews - they are adverts for stuff the shops sell. It's clear.

The history of the UK music industry is packed with opaque dealings - some dodgy - and the same faces keep turning up. This is just the latest instalment.

elstoof · August 2023

Would a victory vs fender vs milkman shootout, ending with all three presenters choosing the victory as the best sounding amp, not constitute a review?

goldtop · August 2023

elstoof said:

Would a victory vs fender vs milkman shootout, ending with all three presenters choosing the victory as the best sounding amp, not constitute a review?

The word I put in and you didn't was "independent".

I watch a lot of Andertons videos (synths and acoustic channels, too) and they are entertaining puff pieces. Some laughs in a 'Top Gear banter' way - is nice. But I only pay attention to the objective facts they say.

RaymondLin · August 2023

I knew...

I don't see a problem, businesses create brands and sell them under their own umbrella all the time. Or writers use pseudonyms to publish work anonymously. It happens everywhere, sometimes people just want to let the work to stand on it's own without their other name clouding people's judgment.

As for their videos pushing it, that's call an ad.

The 2 above points can co-exists together.

swiller · August 2023

euan said:

Given he doesn’t review gear, and has made it clear that he doesn’t, Victory amps have never been reviewed by him. Only demonstrated in comparison with other amplifiers.

ok... But comparison vs others is still showcasing product with a sizeable queue for exposure. My point is why not just say you have invested in a company, one of ten, supporting revered amp tech and do the same comparison for the viewer to decide?. Of course its of interest, just like declarations of interest are essential in lots of employment contracts.

DefaultM · August 2023

At least they play the amps, so despite saying how great they are everyone can hear that in actual fact they sound shite.

roberty · August 2023

goldtop said:

They're both right.

It was quite well hidden information and watching Martin Kidd wriggle in that podcast clip shows that he doesn't want to talk about Lee. But Andertons is a business (of which I'm a happy customer, FWIW) and its videos are not independent reviews - they are adverts for stuff the shops sell. It's clear.

The history of the UK music industry is packed with opaque dealings - some dodgy - and the same faces keep turning up. This is just the latest instalment.

I think Marshall was even started by some guy with a shop. Very shady

euan · August 2023

swiller said:

euan said:

Given he doesn’t review gear, and has made it clear that he doesn’t, Victory amps have never been reviewed by him. Only demonstrated in comparison with other amplifiers.

ok... But comparison vs others is still showcasing product with a sizeable queue for exposure. My point is why not just say you have invested in a company, one of ten, supporting revered amp tech and do the same comparison for the viewer to decide?. Of course it’s of interest, just like declarations of interest are essential in lots of employment contracts.

Lee Anderton has answered that question.

Rocky1991 · August 2023

I'm late to this thread but I'm sorry anyone who is calling him a tool or a twit should explain why?

BillDL · August 2023

He has already exemplified this all by himself in his previous investigative video exposées of people and companies.

KrisGee · August 2023

Most Andertons videos sound crap so if there's anything they manipulated with presenting Victory amps it's not showing them in a good light for sure.

KDH guy needs more sun.

Powerslave · August 2023

Apparently, once upon a time, Johnny Peach didn't know.

Received his first order from Victory, then found out.

Sent them all back, cancelled his order.

Didn't want to be helping out a competitor.

Says more about one than the other, at least to my mind.

mudslide73 · August 2023

Do we know if the rest of GAP have shares in Victory too?

prowla · August 2023

The important thing is to recognise that the vids are advertorials.

I sometimes find them fun and informative, but I don't know if I've ever bought something based on them.

I do think it's good that there are successful businesses in the UK and would call myself a satisfied customer.

RaymondLin · August 2023

Powerslave said:

Apparently, once upon a time, Johnny Peach didn't know.

Received his first order from Victory, then found out.

Sent them all back, cancelled his order.

Didn't want to be helping out a competitor.

Says more about one than the other, at least to my mind.

Whilst I can understand that in 1 way, but on the other hand, it's not like Peach is in the Amp MAKING business. They are both in the retailing business but not both in the manufacturing business. Assuming Peach won't be selling the products without a profit margin, if the amp sells, then there would still be profit to be made for the retailer.

DefaultM said:

At least they play the amps, so despite saying how great they are everyone can hear that in actual fact they sound shite.

Haha, that is true, no matter how much i liked the spec, and the price and back then i watched every Andertons video pretty much. They never won me over. It just doesn't sound that great.

spirit7 · August 2023

How naive do you have to be to think that Andertons, a well-known retailer, is objectively trying out gear rather than trying to sell it? This whole thing is absolutely absurd.

Lewy · August 2023

spirit7 said:

How naive do you have to be to think that Andertons, a well-known retailer, is objectively trying out gear rather than trying to sell it? This whole thing is absolutely absurd.

Why does anyone think that the starting point for him would be unwavering objectivity on all the other amp brands, but somehow devious on the manufacturer he's got a small stake in? If he was that way inclined, surely he'd have also borne false witness on behalf of brands that, for example, weren't selling too well, or had a healthier margin etc etc

flying_pie · August 2023

spirit7 said:

How naive do you have to be to think that Andertons, a well-known retailer, is objectively trying out gear rather than trying to sell it? This whole thing is absolutely absurd.

The issue is whether they put Victory on a pedestal compared to other amps while giving the illusion of complete impartiality.

Obviously all their videos are adverts. Additionally a shop can promote any given brand at any time, but there's a definite blurring as far as advertising standards go on YouTube compared to TV infomercials. Also, if Anderson's were for example explicitly saying Victory are much better than Marshall then there would be kickback but instead they can pretend there's a superior sound in the room.

It's not illegal, or unexpected, but it's murky and I'll bet it works for them

euan · August 2023

Yeah that’s the thing, if Anderton was indulging in sinister business practices which KDH did but didn’t suggest he was, he’d push the highest margin gear, no the one he might have a financial take in.

Creed_Clicks · August 2023

Isn’t KDH YT tagline something about moaning at people online?

spirit7 · August 2023

flying_pie said:

spirit7 said:

How naive do you have to be to think that Andertons, a well-known retailer, is objectively trying out gear rather than trying to sell it? This whole thing is absolutely absurd.

The issue is whether they put Victory on a pedestal compared to other amps while giving the illusion of complete impartiality.

Obviously all their videos are adverts. Additionally a shop can promote any given brand at any time, but there's a definite blurring as far as advertising standards go on YouTube compared to TV infomercials. Also, if Anderson's were for example explicitly saying Victory are much better than Marshall then there would be kickback but instead they can pretend there's a superior sound in the room.

It's not illegal, or unexpected, but it's murky and I'll bet it works for them

They have never professed to be wholly impartial. They are there to sell stuff. It's not their fault if people assume the contrary!

elstoof · August 2023

Promoting something to get a sale is one thing, but pushing a product that most of your vast international viewers will probably buy from a different retailer without disclosing you’ll get a kickback from that one and not the other 2 on show regardless is a bit rum

TeleMaster · August 2023

There is a response from KDH who has said that the Lee has responded to him and said that the ASA (Advertising Standards Agency) had some complaints regarding the nondisclosure of the brands they owned in light of the video content.

They've said that the ASA have instructed Andertons videos to declare any financial interests in the videos they do in the form of adding a line in the video and this will resolve the complaints.

As per the regulations and the ruling it appears that he should have been declaring these products when he's doing comparisons and demo videos etc that involve these products and he will be doing so from now on.

Case closed.

theatreanchor · August 2023

TeleMaster said:

There is a response from KDH who has said that the Lee has responded to him and said that the ASA (Advertising Standards Agency) had some complaints regarding the nondisclosure of the brands they owned in light of the video content.

They've said that the ASA have instructed Andertons videos to declare any financial interests in the videos they do in the form of adding a line in the video and this will resolve the complaints.

As per the regulations and the ruling it appears that he should have been declaring these products when he's doing comparisons and demo videos etc that involve these products and he will be doing so from now on.

Case closed.

I quite like this particular screenshot.

elstoof · August 2023

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TeleMaster · August 2023

elstoof said:

Worst onlyfans ever

Or... Best?

dindude · August 2023

Really don’t see the issue and I think Lee was far too apologetic to the grubby basement gossip.

Andertons spend a good deal of time promoting products that you can buy (for pretty much the same price) at any number of outlets but take a wider view of on-line presence = reward that seems to have paid off. But in this there will be plenty of international viewers who enjoy free content who will never buy from Andertons, so some perceptive is needed.

Compare that to Peach’s (i mention them as John seemingly took exception to stocking Victory amps) increasingly insular view of the world, still need to book appointments as if we were in Covid times, video content went mute a while ago and since Jack left we don’t even get to see players head!

And anyway, how much do we really think Lee is making from a side hustle with a smallish amp company compared to his core business? And how many of you have been tricked into buying a Victory amp because they sit in the background and subliminally corrupt your mind.

In context of real world issues, it’s utter nonsense.

Sassafras · August 2023

Why is KDH all over this place?
How many more threads do we need about Andertons/Victory?

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