Rubiales: "I'm not going to resign"

Brize · August 2023

Is anyone else reminded of 'The Kissing Sailor', who forcibly kissed a random girl on V-J Day?

Image: https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2014/03/14/146638236_custom-3c5844b939b55223efcbab0984281038c908e7ec-s1600-c85.webp

CHRISB50 · August 2023

^ Not really, no.

Chalky · August 2023

^^^And numerous movies where the guy kisses the girl in a moment of high emotion.

Chalky · August 2023

We obviously have a lot of moral experts on the correct treatment of women on here, so can I ask a serious question.

Is it ok to have sex with a woman acquaintance where you wake her up and no words are spoken at all throughout the experience?

Brize · August 2023

CHRISB50 said:

^ Not really, no.

It's an iconic photo, but I always thought it was a bit 'rapey' - you can see how forcibly he's holding her from his clenched knuckles. I think it's often assumed that it was his girlfriend, but he just grabbed a random girl from the street and kissed her.

NothingOnTheTele · August 2023

Chalky said:

We obviously have a lot of moral experts on the correct treatment of women on here, so can I ask a serious question.

Is it ok to have sex with a woman acquaintance where you wake her up and no words are spoken at all throughout the experience?

It would depend on a number of factors.

RocknRollDave · August 2023

Chalky said:

We obviously have a lot of moral experts on the correct treatment of women on here, so can I ask a serious question.

Is it ok to have sex with a woman acquaintance where you wake her up and no words are spoken at all throughout the experience?

Or ‘married life’, as it’s also known.

goldtop · August 2023

Chalky said:

We obviously have a lot of moral experts on the correct treatment of women on here, so can I ask a serious question.

Is it ok to have sex with a woman acquaintance where you wake her up and no words are spoken at all throughout the experience?

(Your ... 'nuanced' ... approach to Russia makes a LOT more sense now.)

There are whole books written on non-verbal communication. Start reading.

GoFish · August 2023

Chalky said:

We obviously have a lot of moral experts on the correct treatment of women on here, so can I ask a serious question.

Is it ok to have sex with a woman acquaintance where you wake her up and no words are spoken at all throughout the experience?

Would it be ok if I did that to you?

Chalky · August 2023

And the answer is No. Irrespective or relationship status or non-verbal communication, you would still be open to an accusation of sexual violence. Other factors could be raised in your defence (and by the prosecution) but while they might put you at low risk of conviction they would not remove that risk completely. A sleeping woman is deemed to have not given consent.

GoFish · August 2023

What if they were not asleep just really, really drunk?

NothingOnTheTele · August 2023

Chalky said:

And the answer is No. Irrespective or relationship status or non-verbal communication, you would still be open to an accusation of sexual violence. Other factors could be raised in your defence (and by the prosecution) but while they might put you at low risk of conviction they would not remove that risk completely. A sleeping woman is deemed to have not given consent.

Legally speaking, for the purpose of rape, if the complainant was asleep at the time they were penetrated there's an 'evidential presumption' that they didn't consent. That presumption can be rebutted, but the onus is on the defendant to do so. (See s.75 Sexual Offences Act 2003.)

Morally speaking, some people might be into that sort of thing. And if so, fine. There's no harm in it.

So like I said, the answer to your question is not a blanket 'no', but 'it depends'. If your female acquaintance had made it clear to you beforehand that she consented, it would be both legally and morally permissable to have sex with her while she slept.

euan · August 2023

I think this is fairly off topic

Timcito · August 2023

Chalky said:

^^^And numerous movies where the guy kisses the girl in a moment of high emotion.

Invariably followed by a slap across the face if her eyes and body language did not communicate consent beforehand.

Same with the question about making love in the morning: if the other partner wants it, there is bodily communication; consent does not have to be in words.

Chalky · August 2023

NothingOnTheTele said:

Chalky said:

And the answer is No. Irrespective or relationship status or non-verbal communication, you would still be open to an accusation of sexual violence. Other factors could be raised in your defence (and by the prosecution) but while they might put you at low risk of conviction they would not remove that risk completely. A sleeping woman is deemed to have not given consent.

Legally speaking, for the purpose of rape, if the complainant was asleep at the time they were penetrated there's an 'evidential presumption' that they didn't consent. That presumption can be rebutted, but the onus is on the defendant to do so. (See s.75 Sexual Offences Act 2003.)

Morally speaking, some people might be into that sort of thing. And if so, fine. There's no harm in it.

So like I said, the answer to your question is not a blanket 'no', but 'it depends'. If your female acquaintance had made it clear to you beforehand that she consented, it would be both legally and morally permissable to have sex with her while she slept.

Not quite true. See this for an exploration of the issue:

https://publicdefenderservice.org.uk/news/is-advance-consent-to-sexual-activity-a-defence/

NothingOnTheTele · August 2023

Chalky said:

NothingOnTheTele said:

Chalky said:

And the answer is No. Irrespective or relationship status or non-verbal communication, you would still be open to an accusation of sexual violence. Other factors could be raised in your defence (and by the prosecution) but while they might put you at low risk of conviction they would not remove that risk completely. A sleeping woman is deemed to have not given consent.

Legally speaking, for the purpose of rape, if the complainant was asleep at the time they were penetrated there's an 'evidential presumption' that they didn't consent. That presumption can be rebutted, but the onus is on the defendant to do so. (See s.75 Sexual Offences Act 2003.)

Morally speaking, some people might be into that sort of thing. And if so, fine. There's no harm in it.

So like I said, the answer to your question is not a blanket 'no', but 'it depends'. If your female acquaintance had made it clear to you beforehand that she consented, it would be both legally and morally permissable to have sex with her while she slept.

Not quite true. See this for an exploration of the issue:

https://publicdefenderservice.org.uk/news/is-advance-consent-to-sexual-activity-a-defence/

This is a topic I've studied and which it's my job to know.

Your article only states that the concept of 'advance consent' hasn't been thoroughly tested in the courts. The article doesn't cite any legal precedent or authority - besides some speculative commentary, which isn't binding - that sexual activity with a sleeping person can never be legal.

By listing 'the complainant was sleeping' in the s.75 evidential presumptions, Parliament obviously intended that the presumption of non-consent could be rebutted. Otherwise they'd have listed it in s.76 (conclusive presumptions).

Imagine a scenario where a person filmed a man having sex with his own sleeping wife and reported it to the police, resulting in the man being charged with rape. Imagine that both the man and his wife provided evidence of a prior agreement whereby the wife consented to sex while sleeping, and that the wife confirmed she'd consented in advance. It would be absurd then to suggest that the presumption of non-consent couldn't be rebutted, that the man had raped his wife, and that he should be convicted.

goldtop · August 2023

Chalky said:

And the answer is No. Irrespective or relationship status or non-verbal communication, you would still be open to an accusation of sexual violence. Other factors could be raised in your defence (and by the prosecution) but while they might put you at low risk of conviction they would not remove that risk completely. A sleeping woman is deemed to have not given consent.

You said she was awake. Make your mind up.

darthed1981 · August 2023

GoFish said:
Would it be ok if I did that to you?

Chalky said:

And the answer is No. Irrespective or relationship status or

Woah @GoFish no sex with Chalky for you!

Emp_Fab · August 2023

It doesn't really matter whether Hermoso was bothered by it or not. What it really boils down to is that it was just wrong for a man who is not in a relationship with a woman to grab her face and plant his lips on hers. You can argue all you like about consent, her reaction afterwards, whatever.... it's largely irrelevant.

He behaved like an entitled dick. The clip of him bouncing around grabbing his crotch whilst everyone around him is calm speaks volumes.

GoFish · August 2023

Whole articles could be written on the psychology behind grabbing his crotch in the context of the occasion. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sa-a-aad.

darthed1981 said:

Woah @GoFish no sex with Chalky for you!

I may have to trick @Chalky into signing a waiver first.

Or wait for a moment of high emotion

What do you say - is there a chance?

holnrew · August 2023

GoFish said:

darthed1981 said:

Woah @GoFish no sex with Chalky for you!

I may have to trick @Chalky into signing a waiver first.

Or wait for a moment of high emotion

What do you say - is there a chance?

I'll give you a quickie

goldtop · September 2023

goldtop said:

Are we there yet?

We're there.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66637879

Schnozz · September 2023

Good news - Guys a weirdo

Kittyfrisk · September 2023

Beyond parody...
"Rubiales made a statement saying he had submitted his resignation to federation acting president Pedro Rocha.
"I cannot continue my work," Rubiales said on 'Piers Morgan Uncensored'.

Tannin · September 2023

I am not leaving.

There is no way you can make me go!

It wasn't my fault, it was that BAD WOMAN!

I'M GOING TO SUE YOUR ARSE OFF!

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

It's not me, it's the fake feminist wokeist lesbian sex deniers!

YOU CAN"T MAKE ME QUIT!

I am more important than the players and coaches and judges and tribunals and everyone else. I'M THE BOSS!

AND I WON'T QUIT!

I don't care how bad I look, I LOOK GOOD!

AND MY MOTHER SAYS DON"T SACK ME, you can't criticise my mother!

I AM NOT LEAVING! NOT NOW, AND NOT EVER!

.......

......

......

bye

Creed_Clicks · September 2023

Not sure why he chose TalkTV / Piers Morgan to do his "vereee goo mai frennn" interview.

Timcito · September 2023

What was Morgan's take on it?

NothingOnTheTele · September 2023

Timcito said:

What was Morgan's take on it?

Somehow 'wokeness' will have been to blame.

Emp_Fab · September 2023

Now, what can we organise to get Piers Moron to resign?

CHRISB50 · September 2023

NothingOnTheTele said:

Timcito said:

What was Morgan's take on it?

Somehow 'wokeness' will have been to blame.

Haven't seen it, but that was the first thought that popped into my head too.

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Rubiales: "I'm not going to resign"

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