Ahsoka.

VimFuego · October 2023

caught up with this, overall very happy with it. Only fly in the ointment will be the next series without Ray Stevenson. His performance was a masterclass in understated pathos, I was constantly blown away with just how fantastic he was. I'm sure they'll find someone to fill his boots, but I will be filled with a sense of regret that it's not him

guitargeek62 · October 2023

Liev Schrieber could carry a similar on-screen presence and air of regality methinks

Kalimna · October 2023

Regarding who would be able to play Baylon in the next series. Two contenders spring to mind. Michael Shanks probably best known as Daniel Jackson of Stargate has the chops and gravitas, and failing that Michael Sheen the phenomenal welsh actor (just listen to his rendition of 'Do not go gently into that good night').

guitargeek62 · October 2023

Re-watching the finale this AM with my boy, Sabine/Bordizzo really is a terrible actor eh? Then again, I guess you can only work with the script & direction in front of you

tekbow · October 2023

digitalscream said:

Yeah, just watched it - it's a lot quicker if you skip through all the "somebody looks at something" bits. Quite a few bits didn't make sense in the context of the universe (eg Ezra being less effective with a lightsaber than without for whole sections of fights, or even wearing that...uniform...at the end), but not terrible in terms of where it was left.

Most frustrating was the Mortis gods' reveal at the end, and the fact that we're not going to see the payoff with Baylan. And what's up with the Daughter not being there (and possibly never having been there)?

She was there, her Convor (owl type thing) flew off at the end of the scene where Ahsoka and Sabine arrive back at the camp of the New Galaxy's friendly Jawa things.

That's assuming the convor is a manifestation. I always thought she was

digitalscream · October 2023

tekbow said:

digitalscream said:

Yeah, just watched it - it's a lot quicker if you skip through all the "somebody looks at something" bits. Quite a few bits didn't make sense in the context of the universe (eg Ezra being less effective with a lightsaber than without for whole sections of fights, or even wearing that...uniform...at the end), but not terrible in terms of where it was left.

Most frustrating was the Mortis gods' reveal at the end, and the fact that we're not going to see the payoff with Baylan. And what's up with the Daughter not being there (and possibly never having been there)?

She was there, her Convor (owl type thing) flew off at the end of the scene where Ahsoka and Sabine arrive back at the camp of the New Galaxy's friendly Jawa things.

That's assuming the convor is a manifestation. I always thought she was

No, I meant the statues

The Convor is a weird one...I'm hoping that pays off with an explanation at some point.

stickyfiddle · October 2023

I don't know what any of that shit means and I think they've missed the mark with the way all of this stuff was handled.

But whatever. Loki S2 kicks off this week - that should be much better

english_bob · October 2023

Kalimna said:

Regarding who would be able to play Baylon in the next series. <snip> Michael Sheen <snip

Given that we've already got David Tennent in the show it's practically the law to have Michael Sheen in it, isn't it?

Sad that Ray Stevenson isn't around to continue in the role. Baylan Skoll is shaping up to be an interesting character although we still know very little about who or what he and Shin Hati are, or what they're up to, since they don't seem to have been on the bus to Peridea as die-hard Thrawn fans. Are they still working together, or has he permanently cut her loose?

Kalimna · October 2023

english_bob said:

Kalimna said:

Regarding who would be able to play Baylon in the next series. <snip> Michael Sheen <snip

Given that we've already got David Tennent in the show it's practically the law to have Michael Sheen in it, isn't it?

Sad that Ray Stevenson isn't around to continue in the role. Baylan Skoll is shaping up to be an interesting character although we still know very little about who or what he and Shin Hati are, or what they're up to, since they don't seem to have been on the bus to Peridea as die-hard Thrawn fans. Are they still working together, or has he permanently cut her loose?

Hah! I hadn't thought of that, but it would be perfect

guitargeek62 · October 2023

@english_bob ;

Good call on Sheen.

RE: Baylon / Shin - my take is not working together, but not necessarily against each other either. There’ll be a redemption arc for Shin I suspect, as the wayward student/padawan trope, but Baylon is doomed for a darker path methinks.

english_bob · October 2023

guitargeek62 said:

RE: Baylon / Shin - my take is not working together, but not necessarily against each other either. There’ll be a redemption arc for Shin I suspect, as the wayward student/padawan trope, but Baylon is doomed for a darker path methinks.

Their last conversation did seem to suggest that Baylan was saying "you're on your own now", potentially permanently. However, I think there was an expectation that Shin would either kill Team Tano and go home with Thrawn, or would die trying. Now that she hasn't done either of those things, what next? We don't know if she's joining the natives, borrowing a croco-doggo-pony to go find Baylan again, or what...

I think the redemption could go either way- either the "student realises they had a bad teacher" plot, or the "student becomes more radical than the teacher expected" one. Either way, they're the characters we know least about, and that I'm most interested in finding out about.

In the meantime, I'm really enjoying The Bear on Disney+, which is about as far from Star Wars as it's possible to get, but brilliant.

WezV · October 2023

I'm not sure how I feel about the ending.

I am a fan of the show and really enjoyed most of it - lots of cool Star Wars moments. I'm just not sure much was achieved beyond flipping around the locations of some characters.

sinbaadi · October 2023

It's really hard to create a universe with fantastical creatures, space flight, "magic powers", fancy tech etc and then stick to those rules all of the time.

The problem is that they're trying to shoehorn tropes and storylines that make sense in our universe, into the star wars world. (See scooter gang in Boba Fett).

The convenient ignorance of so much is truly bewildering.

Why was the ship going so slowly? Why did the tie-fighters have to strafe and not simply hover and fire from a distance? Answer: because it's being written as though it's a WW2 action movie.

For something clearly requiring so much creativity to produce it, it really lacks imagination.

english_bob · October 2023

sinbaadi said:

Why was the ship going so slowly? Why did the tie-fighters have to strafe and not simply hover and fire from a distance? Answer: because it's being written as though it's a WW2 action movie.

Star Wars has always used WW2 rules for spaceflight, right back to when A New Hope ripped off The Dambusters in 1977.

Can't be repeated often enough. When something about Star Wars doesn't make sense, Ford's Rule applies:

Mark Hamill Interview Quotes - Media Chomp

Mark Hamill Interview Quotes - Media Chomp

"It ain't that kind of movie."

tekbow · October 2023

digitalscream said:

tekbow said:

digitalscream said:

Yeah, just watched it - it's a lot quicker if you skip through all the "somebody looks at something" bits. Quite a few bits didn't make sense in the context of the universe (eg Ezra being less effective with a lightsaber than without for whole sections of fights, or even wearing that...uniform...at the end), but not terrible in terms of where it was left.

Most frustrating was the Mortis gods' reveal at the end, and the fact that we're not going to see the payoff with Baylan. And what's up with the Daughter not being there (and possibly never having been there)?

She was there, her Convor (owl type thing) flew off at the end of the scene where Ahsoka and Sabine arrive back at the camp of the New Galaxy's friendly Jawa things.

That's assuming the convor is a manifestation. I always thought she was

No, I meant the statues

The Convor is a weird one...I'm hoping that pays off with an explanation at some point.

That's what I mean, I think they're linked? The Father and the Son are dead, but the Daughter was linked to her convor which has been around Ahsoka since.

Abeloth has been thrown around as a forthcoming villain, but not seeing any concrete evidence of her yet.

sev112 · October 2023

Who is the “daughter” please L

digitalscream · October 2023

tekbow said:

digitalscream said:

tekbow said:

digitalscream said:

Yeah, just watched it - it's a lot quicker if you skip through all the "somebody looks at something" bits. Quite a few bits didn't make sense in the context of the universe (eg Ezra being less effective with a lightsaber than without for whole sections of fights, or even wearing that...uniform...at the end), but not terrible in terms of where it was left.

Most frustrating was the Mortis gods' reveal at the end, and the fact that we're not going to see the payoff with Baylan. And what's up with the Daughter not being there (and possibly never having been there)?

She was there, her Convor (owl type thing) flew off at the end of the scene where Ahsoka and Sabine arrive back at the camp of the New Galaxy's friendly Jawa things.

That's assuming the convor is a manifestation. I always thought she was

No, I meant the statues

The Convor is a weird one...I'm hoping that pays off with an explanation at some point.

That's what I mean, I think they're linked? The Father and the Son are dead, but the Daughter was linked to her convor which has been around Ahsoka since.

Abeloth has been thrown around as a forthcoming villain, but not seeing any concrete evidence of her yet.

I always thought the Convor was a familiar more than a manifestation, but given that we haven't seen any other instances of either (well, apart from Kanan/Dume, which may have been something similar?), it's difficult to say what the intent was.

Given how difficult it's been just to get people to accept Ezra and Ahsoka in the live-action shows, Abeloth could well be a step too far (even though she's part-and-parcel of the Mortis arc).

Brio · October 2023

Darn I enjoyed it.

littlegreenman · October 2023

Brio said:

Darn I enjoyed it.

As a (yes I was 7 years old in 1976) lifelong SW fan, I too have enjoyed it a lot. I've not seen the animated stuff other than Bad Bunch, but will now backtrack and watch them all. Also played Knights of the Old Republic games so a lot of the very old canon I get.

Obvs going to be a 2nd season, no question. Perhaps even 3? Ezra and the New Republic versus Thrawn and how Ahsoka and Sabine get back.

The oil in the ointment has to be of course the sad death of Ray, and how they square that circle of Baylan's story without recasting, and therefore also Shin's. Not an easy executive decision there for the board.

My main takeaway has been "It's Star Wars, and it wasn't shit, so god damn I love it"

english_bob · October 2023

sev112 said:

Who is the “daughter” please L

https://www.polygon.com/star-wars/23902869/ahsoka-mortis-gods-meaning-finale-bird-owl-morai

Greatape · October 2023

digitalscream said:

stickyfiddle said:

I'm watching now. Haven't read the comments above but but something's been bugging me.

Why doesn't Ahsoka use one lightsaber to block the opponent, and use the other one to chop off their legs?

Well, see...this is one of those things that's always bugged me about the idea of a non-Force-user being able to defend themselves vs a Jedi at all - the very reason that Jedi/Sith/etc are the only ones who can really fight with swords in an era where blasters are a thing is that they don't just have great reactions, they have limited precognition. The better duellists are the ones who have the best skill with precognition - they know what the opponent is going to do next better than their opponent knows what they're going to do next, so it's really a battle of who can come up with the best strategy on the fly while effectively living a few seconds into the future. You can see this in the fight against Maul in the Episode I - Obi Wan gasps with horror about 3 seconds before Maul kills Qui Gon (also referred to in the "You must have the reactions of a Jedi" comment about Anakin in the pod races).

Based on that, you'd assume that she doesn't do that because it would be too obvious for a Force user to see. It does beg the question, though, as to how Morgan was able to survive for more against Ahsoka back in the episode of Mando where they were introduced; it shouldn't even have been close, and she should've been in pieces on the ground within seconds.

I was impressed with the choreography. Diane Inosanto has skills to keep up with. (As you'd expect from Dan Inosanto's daughter, I guess.)

english_bob · October 2023

Greatape said:
I was impressed with the choreography. Diane Inosanto has skills to keep up with. (As you'd expect from Dan Inosanto's daughter, I guess.)

Likewise, there's a guy over on Quora who's a Star Wars fan and a HEMA instructor, so knows his swordplay. He's been impressed with Natasha Liu Bordizzo.

I'm pretty much entirely ignorant of how real fencing works, but what I think a lot of people watching this stuff forget when they criticise fight choreography is that in-universe you're not always watching expert fighters.
Yes, everyone you see in the prequel trilogy should be shit hot with a lightsaber because they're fully trained by a properly established Jedi order. Kylo Ren though? Rey Skypalpawalkertine? They're meant to be a bit crap compared to the height of the Republic and the Jedi. Who taught them? Who could they spar with? Who ever gave them a decent fight other than each other?

Same here- if you think the fight choreography for Sabine or Shin Hati isn't very good, it might be that it's because those characters aren't actually very good.

sev112 · October 2023

english_bob said:

sev112 said:

Who is the “daughter” please L

https://www.polygon.com/star-wars/23902869/ahsoka-mortis-gods-meaning-finale-bird-owl-morai

Thank you

Greatape · October 2023

english_bob said:

Greatape said:
I was impressed with the choreography. Diane Inosanto has skills to keep up with. (As you'd expect from Dan Inosanto's daughter, I guess.)

Likewise, there's a guy over on Quora who's a Star Wars fan and a HEMA instructor, so knows his swordplay. He's been impressed with Natasha Liu Bordizzo.

I'm pretty much entirely ignorant of how real fencing works, but what I think a lot of people watching this stuff forget when they criticise fight choreography is that in-universe you're not always watching expert fighters.
Yes, everyone you see in the prequel trilogy should be shit hot with a lightsaber because they're fully trained by a properly established Jedi order. Kylo Ren though? Rey Skypalpawalkertine? They're meant to be a bit crap compared to the height of the Republic and the Jedi. Who taught them? Who could they spar with? Who ever gave them a decent fight other than each other?

Same here- if you think the fight choreography for Sabine or Shin Hati isn't very good, it might be that it's because those characters aren't actually very good.

Although Ahsoka is supposed to be good. And it's certainly better than something like Vader in the original.

The lightsaber thing is a weird one. Quite obviously it has a big nod to the Japanese sword, but that is typically much more austere and direct in style. However, that's not particularly dynamic or long-lasting, so instead we tend to get 'movie style'. So beloved of Tae Kwon Do 'weapon demos' ...

I think it would be quite interesting for them to take a much deeper dive into the nuances of the Japanese influence - the philosophy as well as the fighting styles.

If I were the director or fight choreographer, I'd be hiring on a couple of the koryu sword schools to act as creative consultants.

munckee · October 2023

I’m a bit confused with the timeline, have we worked out why ahsoka couldn’t be assed with the battle of hoth or endor or is that the point of this series?

english_bob · October 2023

munckee said:

I’m a bit confused with the timeline, have we worked out why ahsoka couldn’t be assed with the battle of hoth or endor or is that the point of this series?

No, we still don't know what she was doing for all that time (at least film/TV canon- there might be a semi-official comic or novel).

Cranky · October 2023

Kalimna said:

Regarding who would be able to play Baylon in the next series. Two contenders spring to mind. Michael Shanks probably best known as Daniel Jackson of Stargate has the chops and gravitas, and failing that Michael Sheen the phenomenal welsh actor (just listen to his rendition of 'Do not go gently into that good night').

You must mean Charlie Sheen.

Kalimna · October 2023

Cranky said:

Kalimna said:

Regarding who would be able to play Baylon in the next series. Two contenders spring to mind. Michael Shanks probably best known as Daniel Jackson of Stargate has the chops and gravitas, and failing that Michael Sheen the phenomenal welsh actor (just listen to his rendition of 'Do not go gently into that good night').

You must mean Charlie Sheen.

Erm, unless im missing something here, Im pretty sure I meant Michael

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