Query failed: connection to localhost:9312 failed (errno=111, msg=Connection refused). Oh dear, not again Roger... - Off Topic Discussions on The Fretboard
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UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45

Oh dear, not again Roger...

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  • dazzajldazzajl Frets: 5092
    Tannin said:
    He has good sense and a decent amount of tact. Not.

    Remind you of anyone?



    Cleese and Waters would actually be a perfect double act. 
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  • bertiebertie Frets: 12145
    dazzajl said:

    Cleese and Waters would actually be a perfect double act. 
    werent they in Dinner Ladies
    just because you don't, doesn't mean you can't
     just because you do, doesn't mean you should.
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  • dazzajldazzajl Frets: 5092
    bertie said:
    dazzajl said:

    Cleese and Waters would actually be a perfect double act. 
    werent they in Dinner Ladies
    Anita think about that, they might have Bren 
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  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3819
    goldtop said:
    bertie said:
    goldtop said:
    He wasn't dressed as a Nazi.

    how would you describe then ?

     bearing in the "headline" from the OP was "nazi style"

    it wasnt fucking laura ashley that's for sure
    It's authoritarian - same reason he's done The Wall show in mock junta outfits. Similar ways of depicting fascist baddies have appeared in many media. Darth Vader and assorted SW villains were not channeling Laura Ashley either. Star Trek has used similar authoritarian uniforms - and IIRC actual Nazi outfits - as visual cues. 

    A bit of basic logic:
    1. Some authoritarians are Nazis
    2. Roger Waters was wearing an authoritarian uniform
    3. Therefore Roger Waters was dressed as a Nazi.
    That some of you get 3 from the combination of 1 and 2 is a failing of your schooldays. Clinging to this is Tucker Carlson-levels of argument.


    I think that's a fair point. 
    In the film this bit was when he was older no? So after the nazis. It definitely isn't meant to be nazi, but supposed to be an evolution of, or something very similar.

    I don't think it is necessarily bad, trying to provoke, very likely, but that's pretty standard for an artist like him, misjudged, possibly. That really depends on the outcome. 
    MYMUSIC
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 10961
    More news on this:


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  • Dr_NecessiterDr_Necessiter Frets: 152
    Further controversy this morning:


    "I've got the moobs like Jabba".
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  • DominicDominic Frets: 15285
    Polly Samson could probably tell you a lot worse
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 11742
    Dr_Necessiter said:
    Further controversy this morning:


    Pay walled.  :/
    My trading feedback  http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/57616/
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 2124
    Waters is hardly the only artist who uses his platform to make edgy points about fascism and totalitarianism. But somehow no-one thinks that Laibach or Rammstein are apologists for fascism and totalitarianism. I wonder why.
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  • yockyyocky Frets: 744
    The Times article is basically about this, which has just been released.


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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 69426
    Stuckfast said:
    Waters is hardly the only artist who uses his platform to make edgy points about fascism and totalitarianism.
    No, but he seems to be actively turning into everything he satirised, as if he can no longer see the distinction. It’s sad to see it happen to someone I once greatly admired.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33263
    ICBM said:
    Stuckfast said:
    Waters is hardly the only artist who uses his platform to make edgy points about fascism and totalitarianism.
    No, but he seems to be actively turning into everything he satirised, as if he can no longer see the distinction. It’s sad to see it happen to someone I once greatly admired.
    Also see... John Cleese.
    James Richmond

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 10961
    boogieman said:
    Dr_Necessiter said:
    Further controversy this morning:


    Pay walled.  :/

    The MSN article I linked to isn't.
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  • khaotickhaotic Frets: 103
    Starring in the Independent today as well (not paywalled) https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/roger-waters-antisemitism-documentary-pink-floyd-b2420126.html

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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8281
    It's interesting that the video only has two primary sources, but the Independent article uses language like "Bob Ezrin among those interviewed" , "The Dark Side of Roger Waters includes a number of extraordinary and disturbing claims by those who have worked with" ... it sounds like there's an avalanche of allegations from different directions, but the video actually only interviews two people. So it does feel like the media is putting a biased editorial slant on this subject.

    But.

    The personal stories always sound quite troubling with our man Roger. Like... I do firmly believe that criticism of Israel's settlement of land and treatment of the Palestinians is a valid and justifiable thing. And that it's very hard, maybe impossible, to make such criticism without straying very close to dangerous waters (hehe) because the history of Zionism, Jewishness, Persecution, ethnicity, the actual political history of Israel as a nation, they're all so closely interlinked.

    I watched this video and at the end I found myself with two broad thoughts. My first is, what does non-problematic legitimate criticism of Israel's apartheid policies actually look like? Are there any examples of individuals who have successfully navigated this area without attracting concern about their attitude to Jews in general?

    My second thought is, Roger Waters does strike me as a bully and a not altogether nice guy on a personal level. The anecdotes in this video aren't very nice. His history with his Floyd band mates isn't very nice. He has in the past protested very loudly and very eloquently his innocence, and the moral basis for his position, but on a personal level these stories of Antisemitism from Bob Ezrin & Norbert Stachel are... hard to square up with Water's defence of his own views.
    Horizoneer

    Bandcamp

    Spotify, Apple et al
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 10231
    No mention of his Putin apologietics?
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  • SassafrasSassafras Frets: 30023
    edited September 2023
    The legacy media and deep state are trying to silence him.
    Just like that Russell Brand conspiracy.
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  • DominicDominic Frets: 15285
    I've got to remember to wipe him off my shoe next time I come home from the park
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  • BrioBrio Frets: 1499
    edited September 2023
    You go dogging with Roger?  Ewwww!
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  • dazzajldazzajl Frets: 5092
    Surely the only part of a discussion about Roger that’s still a debate is exactly what colour and consistency of fetid turd he is now, or will become next.  :s
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  • OffsetOffset Frets: 9212
    I remember reading Nick Mason's account of life in Pink Floyd a few years back and came to the conclusion that Waters was an exceptionally difficult and unpleasant man.  If these recent revelations are accurate, it moves him from 'unpleasant' to 'vile' in my view.  Reprehensible.
    Currently for sale: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/247085/pro-ject-essential-ii-turntable
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  • DominicDominic Frets: 15285
    Used to know Nick and Sally through Ferrari Owners Club many years ago .......I worshipped her 250 GTO .....I would say he was a very down to earth ,decent bloke and Gilmour (never met him ) seems likewise .
    Neither are great Fans of Waters ..........most people can give an account of an old workmate ,they may not be fans or supporters but they have a few nice tales to tell with reverence ................wasn't the case here 
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