Oh dear, not again Roger...

steven70 · May 2023

bertie said:

goldtop said:
He wasn't dressed as a Nazi.

how would you describe then ?

bearing in the "headline" from the OP was "nazi style"

it wasnt fucking laura ashley that's for sure

This should be easy to settle - either he was dressed as something or he wasn't.

Dressing 'in the style of' something is not the same as being dressed as that thing.

Pics?

dazzajl · May 2023

‘As’ or ‘in the style of’ feels like a distinction without a difference. The costume Roger wears would be an easy copyright case and that’s the point, we’re supposed to recognise it and the connotations of that regime.

Whether it’s satire or edgy and making a deep social comment is much more questionable. He’s been performing this same schtick for 40 years now and I can’t see any new ground being broken here. If anything, the longer the song stays the same, the fewer people understand or care what the lyrics are.

tony99 · May 2023

Goering's attire was always slightly different from most high ranking Nazis wasn't it - nice cream coloured numbers he used to go for. Must've been hell to wash.

LastMantra · May 2023

The wall, the film, and the album, where massive for me as a young teenager. Taking lsd and hash and watching or listening to it was a pivotal experience.
Haven't really listened to it in about 30 years now though.

tony99 · May 2023

LastMantra said:

The wall, the film, and the album, where massive for me as a young teenager. Taking lsd and hash and watching or listening to it was a pivotal experience.
Haven't really listened to it in about 30 years now though.

Play the soundtrack from Wizard of Oz and simultaneously watch Alan Parker's The Wall video without sound and everything synchs up.

Sporky · May 2023

goldtop said:

roberty said:

dressing up like Nazis

He wasn't dressed as a Nazi.

That'll be the difference between "dressing like" and "dressing as".

LastMantra · May 2023

tony99 said:

LastMantra said:

The wall, the film, and the album, where massive for me as a young teenager. Taking lsd and hash and watching or listening to it was a pivotal experience.
Haven't really listened to it in about 30 years now though.

Play the soundtrack from Wizard of Oz and simultaneously watch Alan Parker's The Wall video without sound and everything synchs up.

Since I'll never actually do that I'm going to choose to believe it actually does

Chuffola · May 2023

Might have been a post in jest but I think it's Dark Side of the Moon that supposedly works as a soundtrack for Wizard of Oz - never tried it myself. Since the movie is longer than the album I'm not sure how that's suppose to work either.

maharg101 · May 2023

fretmeister said:

He put the Star of David on the Pig.

He knew exactly what he was doing.

In the interests of keeping things real.

That wasn't in Germany, or even this decade. It was 2013. For pictures of the pig in Berlin, and some commentary on how this picture has become falsely associated with the current show, see

https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1662807065931272194

ICBM · May 2023

tony99 said:

Goering's attire was always slightly different from most high ranking Nazis wasn't it - nice cream coloured numbers he used to go for. Must've been hell to wash.

Dove grey, actually - and yes, difficult to wash...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3027354/How-know-85-000-uniform-really-worn-Nazi-Hermann-Goering-stained-SWEAT.html

goldtop · May 2023

bertie said:

goldtop said:
He wasn't dressed as a Nazi.

how would you describe then ?

bearing in the "headline" from the OP was "nazi style"

it wasnt fucking laura ashley that's for sure

It's authoritarian - same reason he's done The Wall show in mock junta outfits. Similar ways of depicting fascist baddies have appeared in many media. Darth Vader and assorted SW villains were not channeling Laura Ashley either. Star Trek has used similar authoritarian uniforms - and IIRC actual Nazi outfits - as visual cues.

A bit of basic logic:

Some authoritarians are Nazis
Roger Waters was wearing an authoritarian uniform
Therefore Roger Waters was dressed as a Nazi.

That some of you get 3 from the combination of 1 and 2 is a failing of your schooldays. Clinging to this is Tucker Carlson-levels of argument.

dano · May 2023

Sporky said:

goldtop said:

roberty said:

dressing up like Nazis

He wasn't dressed as a Nazi.

That'll be the difference between "dressing like" and "dressing as".

I need to give Prince Harry a call, so I can tell the difference.

PetGerbil · May 2023

They should lock up those children dressed up as the KKK with sheets over their head around halloween time. Of course they'll claim to be "ghosts...."

TeleMaster · May 2023

My understanding is that he is lampooning the nazis. His father was killed by nazis, this is a show, a performance. I don't think the hysterics are needed.

But what's with the West Ham irons on the pig???

hollywoodrox · May 2023

tony99 said:

Goering's attire was always slightly different from most high ranking Nazis wasn't it - nice cream coloured numbers he used to go for. Must've been hell to wash.

Prone to skidders too

tony99 · May 2023

hollywoodrox said:

tony99 said:

Goering's attire was always slightly different from most high ranking Nazis wasn't it - nice cream coloured numbers he used to go for. Must've been hell to wash.

Prone to skidders too

Don't think he was a commando to be fair

Sporky · May 2023

TeleMaster said:

My understanding is that he is lampooning the nazis. His father was killed by nazis, this is a show, a performance.

Indeed. But when performing a show in Germany, and assuming others are right that he's used other styles of fascist-like uniforms, maybe choosing the one that looks most like a Nazi one wasn't a great choice.

There's some over-reaction, but the point could have been made just as well without provoking the response.

Dressing-up-quite-like-a-Nazi isn't far off starting-a-land-war-in-Asia in the list of classic blunders.

Tannin · May 2023

He has good sense and a decent amount of tact. Not.

Remind you of anyone?

Kilgore · May 2023

TeleMaster said:

My understanding is that he is lampooning the nazis. His father was killed by nazis, this is a show, a performance. I don't think the hysterics are needed.

But what's with the West Ham irons on the pig???

Seeing as this thread appears to be largely about what is or isn't "Nazi". It's worth pointing out that his father was killed by German soldiers. Whether they were Nazis or not, well we don't really know.

Sassafras · May 2023

maharg101 said:

fretmeister said:

He put the Star of David on the Pig.

He knew exactly what he was doing.

In the interests of keeping things real.

That wasn't in Germany, or even this decade. It was 2013. For pictures of the pig in Berlin, and some commentary on how this picture has become falsely associated with the current show, see
https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1662807065931272194

I don't see it matters where it was used.
Putting a Jewish symbol on a pig was bound to be provocative in most countries apart from maybe Arabic ones.

Danny1969 · May 2023

As I mentioned earlier the Wall was performed in Germany complete with Nazi uniforms and pigs. In Dortmund I think where Hitler often addressed his SS. It's art in context and it's a narrative to how quickly fascists movements can escalate into powerful authority. At the time there were many popular books and stage shows devoted to this topic. The Wave was one of my faves and popular for college kids.
In 2014 Waters used Trump and Trump supporters to again illustrate the point if you aren't careful a racist movement could rise to power even in a modern so called leader of the free world country.

These days we go about things in a different way. I'm old so can't really understand what this fuss is about. It could mean I get a better seat at the O2 next Wednesday though so every cloud etc

roberty · May 2023

bertie said:

goldtop said:
He wasn't dressed as a Nazi.

how would you describe then ?

bearing in the "headline" from the OP was "nazi style"

it wasnt fucking laura ashley that's for sure

https://youtu.be/hn1VxaMEjRU

Kilgore · May 2023

Dressing Nazi or Nazi 'style'?

How many fuhrers can dance on the head of a pin?

roberty · May 2023

To be clear, I know full well that his act is meant to criticise authoritarian fascism, but it is extremely distasteful that he should preach this, to Germans in Germany, while simultaneously parroting russian state propaganda. The whole man can get in the bin. A sanctimonious, hypocritical oaf

steven70 · May 2023

roberty said:

To be clear, I know full well that his act is meant to criticise authoritarian fascism, but it is extremely distasteful that he should preach this, to Germans in Germany, while simultaneously parroting russian state propaganda. The whole man can get in the bin. A sanctimonious, hypocritical oaf

So, here's the thing - and I'm not meaning to be confrontational- this is the real issue, where there should be actual intelligent debate in the media.

Is he simply spouting Russian state propaganda? Let's have that discussed and debunked or upheld rather than running a smear campaign. [Edit as per comment below, thanks]

You are entitled to your own personal opinion of the man of course!

Sassafras · May 2023

steven70 said:

roberty said:

To be clear, I know full well that his act is meant to criticise authoritarian fascism, but it is extremely distasteful that he should preach this, to Germans in Germany, while simultaneously parroting russian state propaganda. The whole man can get in the bin. A sanctimonious, hypocritical oaf

So, here's the thing - and I'm not meaning to be confrontational- this is the real issue, where there should be actual intelligent debate in the media.

Is he simply spouting Russian state propaganda? Let's have that discussed and debunked rather than running a smear campaign.

You are entitled to your own personal opinion of the man of course!

Debunked or upheld, surely?

TeleMaster · May 2023

Sporky said:

TeleMaster said:

My understanding is that he is lampooning the nazis. His father was killed by nazis, this is a show, a performance.

Indeed. But when performing a show in Germany, and assuming others are right that he's used other styles of fascist-like uniforms, maybe choosing the one that looks most like a Nazi one wasn't a great choice.

There's some over-reaction, but the point could have been made just as well without provoking the response.

Dressing-up-quite-like-a-Nazi isn't far off starting-a-land-war-in-Asia in the list of classic blunders.

I am German, you can't use Nazi imagery in Germany in lots of circumstances as it's against the law. But that doesn't mean that alluding to something to make an artistic point that is rightly AGAINST the Nazis and fascism should be avoided just because of the response of people who don't understand it. Sometimes the artist wants that response to start a conversation!

There are lots of shows and art in Germany that uses imagery that is meant to allude to 30's/40's Germany as part of a performance. And Germans get the same war films that everyone else does, so this kind of thing isn't new really. It's about intention, context and the law. His intentions were against nazism, the context was as part of a performance that he's done many times before, including in Germany, and I doubt he's broken any law.

So I think it's much ado about nothing really.

Headphones · May 2023

I once had a bacon sandwich in the Israeli embassy (they served it). Does this mean that I am now considered evil?

bertie · May 2023

Headphones said:

Does this mean that I am now considered evil?

what do you mean "now"

roberty · May 2023

steven70 said:

roberty said:

To be clear, I know full well that his act is meant to criticise authoritarian fascism, but it is extremely distasteful that he should preach this, to Germans in Germany, while simultaneously parroting russian state propaganda. The whole man can get in the bin. A sanctimonious, hypocritical oaf

So, here's the thing - and I'm not meaning to be confrontational- this is the real issue, where there should be actual intelligent debate in the media.

Is he simply spouting Russian state propaganda? Let's have that discussed and debunked or upheld rather than running a smear campaign. [Edit as per comment below, thanks]

You are entitled to your own personal opinion of the man of course!

In this interview: https://www.pressenza.com/2023/02/roger-waters-questioned-in-depth-about-ukraine-russia-israel-u-s/

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Oh dear, not again Roger...

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