Tonemaster hankering (now successfully hankered)

thefez · June 2023

My TMDR has just conked out after two years or so of use (and out of warranty). Sound just goes after about 3 mins for no apparent reason. Emailed Fender and they've said the suspected part can't be fixed but can be replaced, so that's a min of £100 and the cost of an amp tech.

I love the thing but not sure I'd buy another considering the current prices. Great for home only users like me.

Keefy · June 2023

thefez said:

My TMDR has just conked out after two years or so of use (and out of warranty). Sound just goes after about 3 mins for no apparent reason. Emailed Fender and they've said the suspected part can't be fixed but can be replaced, so that's a min of £100 and the cost of an amp tech.

I love the thing but not sure I'd buy another considering the current prices. Great for home only users like me.

Have they said what the 'suspected part' is?

thefez · June 2023

Keefy said:

thefez said:

My TMDR has just conked out after two years or so of use (and out of warranty). Sound just goes after about 3 mins for no apparent reason. Emailed Fender and they've said the suspected part can't be fixed but can be replaced, so that's a min of £100 and the cost of an amp tech.

I love the thing but not sure I'd buy another considering the current prices. Great for home only users like me.

Have they said what the 'suspected part' is?

ICEpower 200as1 power amp module. Cheapest is £99 on ebay

HAL9000 · June 2023

thefez said:

My TMDR has just conked out after two years or so of use (and out of warranty). Sound just goes after about 3 mins for no apparent reason. Emailed Fender and they've said the suspected part can't be fixed but can be replaced, so that's a min of £100 and the cost of an amp tech.

I love the thing but not sure I'd buy another considering the current prices. Great for home only users like me.

…and this is part (admittedly only a small part) of why I didn’t go down the ToneMaster route - the worry that issues outside of the warranty period could be costly or, worse still, turn the amp into landfill.

ICBM · June 2023

thefez said:

ICEpower 200as1 power amp module. Cheapest is £99 on ebay

@Danny1969 may have something to say about that - basically he was right.

On the other hand, how much is a full set of valves for a valve one now? OK, you don't usually have to replace them all at once, just the power valves - and a pair of 6V6s is about half that price... but if it was the Twin version, a full set of 6L6s is now considerably more than £100.

thefez · June 2023

ICBM said:

thefez said:

ICEpower 200as1 power amp module. Cheapest is £99 on ebay

@Danny1969 may have something to say about that - basically he was right.

What did he say?

Danny1969 · June 2023

thefez said:

ICBM said:

thefez said:

ICEpower 200as1 power amp module. Cheapest is £99 on ebay

@Danny1969 may have something to say about that - basically he was right.

What did he say?

I came across these modules before the Tonemaster amps, I fix a lot of class D / SMPS stuff and I didn't think these designs were robust enough to be used in a guitar amp.
It's early days though and your's is the only one I've heard of so far which has gone faulty.

A lot of the Ebay ones are fakes. If you look carefully some components and markings on some listings are missing. Some of these things are basic things, like the surge protection for the aux power supply and some are just good house keeping for SMPS and class D in general but I doubt the fakes will be subject to the quality control tests the real units have as this is time consuming. These things are very, very complex in design.
I used a fake one myself as a backup for my own Marshall. I have it bolted in the back of the Marshall. It sounds fine but I know it's a fake because I've also seen the real module.

Maybe Fender can supply one at a decent price as they must have huge purchasing power when they brought these things.

p90fool · June 2023

ICBM said:

thefez said:

ICEpower 200as1 power amp module. Cheapest is £99 on ebay

@Danny1969 may have something to say about that - basically he was right.

Yep, the power amp module is why I've called Tonemasters throwaway domestic tech since day one.
They're a fantastic 300 quid amp, but not a thousand quid plus amp.

Alexlotl · June 2023

Those look like a modular component, mind - if you bought a replacement would it just be case of pulling the plugs out of the existing one and swapping the new one in, no soldering? More like building a PC than anything else.

Image: https://images2.imgbox.com/65/23/Vm1wKNcd_o.jpg

Image: https://audioxpress.com/assets/upload/images/1/20180727134221_ICEpower-200AS1ModuleWeb.jpg

rlw · June 2023

Your issue is with the shop that sold you the amp, not Fender.

Out of warranty is one thing but what about the durability issue. I'm pretty certain that any county court judge would agree that two years is not a satisfactory length of time for such an item to fail.

I would go back to the shop and ask for a repair on the basis that the amp wasn't of good enough quality when you bought it. Also, involve your credit card company. Or Which.

I would reiterate ICBM's point though that things do wear out.... whether they should wear out in two years though is another point.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015

The Consumer Rights Act sets out your rights when you buy products, services and digital content.

Product quality - what should you expect?

As with the Sale of Goods Act, under the Consumer Rights Act all products must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described.

The rules also include digital content in this definition. So all products - whether physical or digital - must meet the following standards:

Fit for purpose: The goods should be fit for the purpose they are supplied for, as well as any specific purpose you made known to the retailer before you agreed to buy the goods.
As described: The goods supplied must match any description given to you, or any models or samples shown to you at the time of purchase.
Satisfactory quality: Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them. You should ask what a reasonable person would consider satisfactory for the goods in question. For example, bargain-bucket products won’t be held to as high standards as luxury goods.

One aspect of a product being of satisfactory quality is durability, in other words how long it lasts.

Durability takes into account many different factors like product type, brand reputation, price point and how it is advertised. For example you're unlikely to be able to claim a cheap kettle that's stopped working after four years isn't durable. Whereas a more premium and expensive kettle that's been well looked after and has stopped working after 14 months could be considered to not be durable, and therefore not of satisfactory quality

Who should you claim against?

If what you’ve bought doesn’t satisfy any one of the three criteria outlined above, you have a claim under the Consumer Rights Act.

If you've bought a faulty product, you can read our guide, which shows you what you should do and how to make a claim.

If you want to make a claim under the Consumer Rights Act, you have several possible ways of resolving your issue, depending on the circumstances and on how you want the retailer to remedy the situation.

Your rights under the Consumer Rights Act are against the retailer – the company that sold you the product – not the manufacturer, so you must take any claim to the retailer.

What you can claim depends on how much time has passed since you physically took ownership of the goods.

rlw · June 2023

thefez said:

My TMDR has just conked out after two years or so of use (and out of warranty). Sound just goes after about 3 mins for no apparent reason. Emailed Fender and they've said the suspected part can't be fixed but can be replaced, so that's a min of £100 and the cost of an amp tech.

I love the thing but not sure I'd buy another considering the current prices. Great for home only users like me.

See above. If that is two years of home use only, you have a very good case for the retailer to fix the thing.

Danny1969 · June 2023

Yes you can swap out that board but be careful as the caps are charged to 310V and if the board has an open circuit fault then they will hold the charge longer than a good board would.

It's also possible a no audio fault on a Tonemaster could also be due to the DSP board, if that doesn't pass audio then the power amp / PSU module has nothing to amplify.

So if you have a fault work out where the audio disappears .. does the DI still work for example as that is independent of the power amp

thefez · June 2023

I'll have to check the DI thing. The sound works but then I hear a click after about 3 mins and all sound goes. The on off light also flashes between red and yellow nonstop.

Unfortunately I bought this second hand off someone, so there isn't a retailer to deal with.

I asked fender about supplying the part and the help desk just emailed me a link to the power module on eBay.

Danny1969 · June 2023

thefez said:

I'll have to check the DI thing. The sound works but then I hear a click after about 3 mins and all sound goes. The on off light also flashes between red and yellow nonstop.

Unfortunately I bought this second hand off someone, so there isn't a retailer to deal with.

I asked fender about supplying the part and the help desk just emailed me a link to the power module on eBay.

I'm actually surprised they did that as it's dangerous to change this part if you don't know about the voltages present even when the powers off and also because their board, the DSP board is fed from the SMPS's aux power supply header and a fake module on Ebay could have so much ripple on it that it could possibly destroy their board.

I can't see any other amp manufacture telling someone to go buy a part form Ebay ... it's a bit bizarre for a professional manufacturer to do that really.

TimmyO · June 2023

Well this has left my french fries a bit yellow and soggy...

ICBM · June 2023

I’ll say this again… if maximum reliability, longest lifespan, minimum maintenance and the lowest long-term running costs are your priority then you want an old-school Class AB, linear power supply, preferably discrete-transistor (or at worst using very standard ICs) analogue solid-state amp.

If properly designed they’re as close to bombproof as any consumer electronics can be. Contrary to popular belief they can also sound excellent if the designers know what they’re doing.

They aren’t the absolute lightest, but combined with a decent non-MDF/particle-board cabinet and neodymium speakers, the only real difference between the Tonemaster and something like it will be the weight of the power transformer and a decent big heatsink - a couple of kilos at most.

Keefy · June 2023

ICBM said:

I’ll say this again… if maximum reliability, longest lifespan, minimum maintenance and the lowest long-term running costs are your priority then you want an old-school Class AB, linear power supply, preferably discrete-transistor (or at worst using very standard ICs) analogue solid-state amp.

If properly designed they’re as close to bombproof as any consumer electronics can be. Contrary to popular belief they can also sound excellent if the designers know what they’re doing.

They aren’t the absolute lightest, but combined with a decent non-MDF/particle-board cabinet and neodymium speakers, the only real difference between the Tonemaster and something like it will be the weight of the power transformer and a decent big heatsink - a couple of kilos at most.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Peavey Bandit!

Seriously, the old Peavey transistor stuff was almost impossible to break - power amps thrashed, 4ohm PAs run into 2ohm loads, combos dropped down fire escapes, the things just carried on working.

Disclaimer - I didn't mind their clean sound, but the overdrive was hideous to my ears.

ICBM · June 2023

Keefy said:

Disclaimer - I didn't mind their clean sound, but the overdrive was hideous to my ears.

The newer Transtube Peaveys - and many other more modern solid-state amps - are completely different. It's guitarists who are stuck in the past, not the technology

.

TimmyO · June 2023

markslade07 said:

There’s a blonde DR not too far away from you in Chippenham on FB
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/114610674958750/

Not any more there isn't...

stickyfiddle · June 2023

Nicely done!

birtner · June 2023

Was on mine earlier. Such good fun these amps

markslade07 · June 2023

TimmyO said:

markslade07 said:

There’s a blonde DR not too far away from you in Chippenham on FB
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/114610674958750/

Not any more there isn't...

Brilliant…nicely done sir!

thefez · June 2023

How are you finding it @TimmyO ?

TimmyO · June 2023

thefez said:

How are you finding it @TimmyO ?

First impressions are very pleasing indeed.

I've only had chance to play with it twice, and then at most on the 5w setting but it is lovely.

I want to plug my LP in and turn it up sans pedals and see if it does that 'perfect Les Paul blues sound' thing that DRs do - will report back when I have.

I'd been playing through a closed-back, ported 1x12 for a good while prior to this and I'm enjoying the open-backed room-filling sound. But most folk already have that.

Teyeplayer · June 2023

TimmyO said:

thefez said:

How are you finding it @TimmyO ?

First impressions are very pleasing indeed.

I've only had chance to play with it twice, and then at most on the 5w setting but it is lovely.

I want to plug my LP in and turn it up sans pedals and see if it does that 'perfect Les Paul blues sound' thing that DRs do - will report back when I have.

I'd been playing through a closed-back, ported 1x12 for a good while prior to this and I'm enjoying the open-backed room-filling sound. But most folk already have that.

A hefty dose of reverb and a LP on full wattage and you are in Albatross territory (probably not what was used and will upset the purists), it sounds great!

TimmyO · June 2023

Just had a bloody ace noodle - it's really good.

It's a fantastic blues amp - which is my comfort zone tbh - the sheer pleasure of playing around with it on any volume setting 5-8 then finding various amounts of clean-notclean-lightblues with the volume knob, and then a fab sustaining sound with any of Lightspeed/Klone/Tiimmy is just fab.

That was on the 1w setting and still grin-inducing sat close in the room and loud enough that you can play with dynamics (it goes down another 2 settings should family-placating be the priority of the moment)

Super pleased with it.

TimmyO · June 2023

Seriously - I can't stop grinning about this - it's like having a DR and an attenuator. But they weigh half what they should. And it doesn't tick or make odd scary expensive 'needs servicing' noises. And you don't need spare valves and fuses.

Honeymoon period: activate.

Keefy · June 2023

Tim brought this amp around today and I plugged into it on some of the unfeasibly low wattage settings - and it made me smile! More importantly, it made want to keep on playing, because playing through it is a rewarding experience, in that you play a note and it gives you back a luscious-sounding note. And the spring reverb sounds good.

I'm a long-time valve-loving guitarist, and although I won't be off to buy one of these, I certainly would not be disappointed to find one as the provided backline.

stickyfiddle · June 2023

One of us!! One of us!!

I’m glad it’s working out

Teyeplayer · June 2023

Keefy said:

Tim brought this amp around today and I plugged into it on some of the unfeasibly low wattage settings - and it made me smile! More importantly, it made want to keep on playing, because playing through it is a rewarding experience, in that you play a note and it gives you back a luscious-sounding note. And the spring reverb sounds good.

I'm a long-time valve-loving guitarist, and although I won't be off to buy one of these, I certainly would not be disappointed to find one as the provided backline.

Recorded with mine for some demos with the band a week or two back, when I was listening back you couldn’t tell the difference in the mix. I’d still like to try it alongside a tremlord, but it’s a great bit of kit all the same.

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Tonemaster hankering (now successfully hankered)

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The Consumer Rights Act 2015

Product quality - what should you expect?

Who should you claim against?