Ren - the future of music?

goldtop · March 2023

ewal said:

I appreciate the talent, the effort and the risk taking (and like the haircut). I wouldn't listen to it out of choice though - I'm too set in my ways musically.

Which is the thread title restated, really. Music needs change, or it'll just be old geezers knocking out tired rock on guitar forever.

(I think he's amazing, but I've not listened to him for weeks.)

Placidcasual79 · March 2023

Octahedron said:

I’m sorry but if this is the future of music I’m out!

That was, in two words, fucking shite.

The hair. The vocals. The guitar tone. Everything about it is just wrong…

I’ve heard more interesting/musical farts coming from a baby than this bollocks.

Totally @Octahedron - I mean what is this? It's not proper rock like Europe - they were a proper band...... there isn't even a guitar solo or any spandex or studs..... this guy could never play Nuno Bettencourt's second solo on the b-side to shotgun of love.... you know the one that starts after the eight drum solo at 14minutes 20.... the one when he steps on his tight fudge bender pedal and uses the suspended 2nd mixed Molly whopper scale with 7 minutes of finger tapping. Man thats real music. It's about the notes he doesn't play. That 2 hour pause before he starts the whole solo again? Wow. Brings a tear to my eye.....

I think we could all learn from you @Octahedron - if we all spent more time listening to baby farts instead of this b*llox music wouldn't be in such a sorry state today.

Octahedron · March 2023

Placidcasual79 said:

Octahedron said:

I’m sorry but if this is the future of music I’m out!

That was, in two words, fucking shite.

The hair. The vocals. The guitar tone. Everything about it is just wrong…

I’ve heard more interesting/musical farts coming from a baby than this bollocks.

Totally @Octahedron - I mean what is this? It's not proper rock like Europe - they were a proper band...... there isn't even a guitar solo or any spandex or studs..... this guy could never play Nuno Bettencourt's second solo on the b-side to shotgun of love.... you know the one that starts after the eight drum solo at 14minutes 20.... the one when he steps on his tight fudge bender pedal and uses the suspended 2nd mixed Molly whopper scale with 7 minutes of finger tapping. Man thats real music. It's about the notes he doesn't play. That 2 hour pause before he starts the whole solo again? Wow. Brings a tear to my eye.....

I think we could all learn from you @Octahedron - if we all spent more time listening to baby farts instead of this b*llox music wouldn't be in such a sorry state today.

I’m familiar with “sarcasm”. I find it amusing that your automatic assumption is that I like Europe, Extreme, etc. and you’re absolutely correct. I do. However, that’s not what my original point was.

It’s funny, because I listened to another of the songs posted in the thread where it’s just him talking drivel over the top of the music from Bittersweet Symphony.

I just can’t get behind the idea that people actually consider this guy the “future of music”. It’s nonsense. Anyone can do what he’s doing with Garage Band and a few brain cells. It’s not original… People are free to like what they want but the idea that this is the future of music is absurd to me.

thecolourbox · March 2023

Octahedron said:

Placidcasual79 said:

Octahedron said:

I’m sorry but if this is the future of music I’m out!

That was, in two words, fucking shite.

The hair. The vocals. The guitar tone. Everything about it is just wrong…

I’ve heard more interesting/musical farts coming from a baby than this bollocks.

Totally @Octahedron - I mean what is this? It's not proper rock like Europe - they were a proper band...... there isn't even a guitar solo or any spandex or studs..... this guy could never play Nuno Bettencourt's second solo on the b-side to shotgun of love.... you know the one that starts after the eight drum solo at 14minutes 20.... the one when he steps on his tight fudge bender pedal and uses the suspended 2nd mixed Molly whopper scale with 7 minutes of finger tapping. Man thats real music. It's about the notes he doesn't play. That 2 hour pause before he starts the whole solo again? Wow. Brings a tear to my eye.....

I think we could all learn from you @Octahedron - if we all spent more time listening to baby farts instead of this b*llox music wouldn't be in such a sorry state today.

I’m familiar with “sarcasm”. I find it amusing that your automatic assumption is that I like Europe, Extreme, etc. and you’re absolutely correct. I do. However, that’s not what my original point was.

It’s funny, because I listened to another of the songs posted in the thread where it’s just him talking drivel over the top of the music from Bittersweet Symphony.

I just can’t get behind the idea that people actually consider this guy the “future of music”. It’s nonsense. Anyone can do what he’s doing with Garage Band and a few brain cells. It’s not original… People are free to like what they want but the idea that this is the future of music is absurd to me.

That would be an interesting Fretboard composition challenge - make a Ren style composition, bonus points if you can choreograph the performance of it as well. Would be an interesting way to test the theory that you only need garage band and a few brain cells to do it

darthed1981 · March 2023

Octahedron said:

Placidcasual79 said:

Octahedron said:

I’m sorry but if this is the future of music I’m out!

That was, in two words, fucking shite.

The hair. The vocals. The guitar tone. Everything about it is just wrong…

I’ve heard more interesting/musical farts coming from a baby than this bollocks.

Totally @Octahedron - I mean what is this? It's not proper rock like Europe - they were a proper band...... there isn't even a guitar solo or any spandex or studs..... this guy could never play Nuno Bettencourt's second solo on the b-side to shotgun of love.... you know the one that starts after the eight drum solo at 14minutes 20.... the one when he steps on his tight fudge bender pedal and uses the suspended 2nd mixed Molly whopper scale with 7 minutes of finger tapping. Man thats real music. It's about the notes he doesn't play. That 2 hour pause before he starts the whole solo again? Wow. Brings a tear to my eye.....

I think we could all learn from you @Octahedron - if we all spent more time listening to baby farts instead of this b*llox music wouldn't be in such a sorry state today.

I’m familiar with “sarcasm”. I find it amusing that your automatic assumption is that I like Europe, Extreme, etc. and you’re absolutely correct. I do. ...

Well done Sir, a lot of people would have pretended not to at that point to try and win, fair play!

The overall point though is that if you are from the era of Europe and Extreme, you would probably concede a lot of people consider that era ridiculous, misogynistic, high-camp twaddle. I certainly do, except for the odd song (it's hard not to like "Final Countdown", however silly it is, or "More Than Words").

That however has no effect on whether YOU like it or not. It has an audience of people who love it, and you quite rightly don't give a toss if I don't like it, because it brings you pleasure.

If Ren gets an audience, and critical acclaim, both of which are growing, then he can make a career in music, and whether you or I listen to him really doesn't matter - he will be "out there".

Music is a thoroughly subjective thing. The real beauty of the streaming era is that all music past and present is there for you to sample and find new things you like, I think that's great.

There is however no "right" or "wrong" way to make popular music, be it what Ren does (grime poet?) or hair metal, both are legitimate forms of artistic expression and potentially commercial product. We haven't a right to judge the first (analyse, discuss sure, judge, no) and the market takes care of the second.

earwighoney · March 2023

It's interesting to see the impact 'The Streets' (aka Mike Skinner) had on the landscape many years down the line.

Maybe a legacy equal some of the guitar bands like Oasis and so on.

Placidcasual79 · March 2023

Octahedron said:

Placidcasual79 said:

Octahedron said:

I’m sorry but if this is the future of music I’m out!

That was, in two words, fucking shite.

The hair. The vocals. The guitar tone. Everything about it is just wrong…

I’ve heard more interesting/musical farts coming from a baby than this bollocks.

Totally @Octahedron - I mean what is this? It's not proper rock like Europe - they were a proper band...... there isn't even a guitar solo or any spandex or studs..... this guy could never play Nuno Bettencourt's second solo on the b-side to shotgun of love.... you know the one that starts after the eight drum solo at 14minutes 20.... the one when he steps on his tight fudge bender pedal and uses the suspended 2nd mixed Molly whopper scale with 7 minutes of finger tapping. Man thats real music. It's about the notes he doesn't play. That 2 hour pause before he starts the whole solo again? Wow. Brings a tear to my eye.....

I think we could all learn from you @Octahedron - if we all spent more time listening to baby farts instead of this b*llox music wouldn't be in such a sorry state today.

I’m familiar with “sarcasm”. I find it amusing that your automatic assumption is that I like Europe, Extreme, etc. and you’re absolutely correct. I do. However, that’s not what my original point was.

It’s funny, because I listened to another of the songs posted in the thread where it’s just him talking drivel over the top of the music from Bittersweet Symphony.

I just can’t get behind the idea that people actually consider this guy the “future of music”. It’s nonsense. Anyone can do what he’s doing with Garage Band and a few brain cells. It’s not original… People are free to like what they want but the idea that this is the future of music is absurd to me.

Hey @Octahedron - thank you for responding to my message. Sarcasm is the lowest form of humour - I wish it was beneath me but I've never been a proud man. Anyway - I am glad you took it in the spirit it was intended - as a light. bit of ribbing. As you rightly say we're all entitled to our own opinions and our own taste - I wouldn't have it any other way and in fact there is something endearing and appealing about the feeling that your one of a select few clued up individuals who are into your particular favourite album, artist or genre..... there is also the happiness that comes from knowing your part of a bigger movement or group who share a taste in music or a particular life style......

Europe and Extreme were just a lucky guess - easy targets to make fun of - both those groups have proven to have an enduring popularity so cannot be without their charms and merits.

It's juts not my bag - but neither is Ren. - I say a couple of times in the thread that it's not to my taste...... it's too theatrical for me personally - but even if it doesn't appeal to me I can see the possibility of it being picked upon and gaining traction as a zeitgeist type artist - I think its appropriate that when the next Beatles, Bowie,Marley, Funkadelic, Clash, Public Enemy, Nirvana or Oasis etc come a long that us 'older folk' will think - 'whats the terrible noise - thats not real music' - thats only right and proper for ver kids to have something of their own, something us oldies don't understand

I'd dispute your assertion that anyone can do what he's doing with garage band (have a look at some of the YouTube clips of his own band 'the big push'... he's a talented musician and singer) and thought you can clearly see some of his influences I'd also say that he's an original artist in that he presents familiar ideas in a comparatively new way......

No need to worry anyway @Octahedron - even if Ren takes over and there is no more 'proper bands making proper music'...... the out touch people of yesterday (us) can still hide in our Guns n Roses (you) and Stone Roses (me) CDs.....

Haych · March 2023

I've skipped the last few pages of comments, but in response to the original question:

No, I don't think it is the future of music - it will have it's place and some people will like it but I don't see it as anything new or groundbreaking.

I wouldn't buy the CD, but as a piece of performance art I did really quite enjoy it. Without the visuals it doesn't carry the same weight for me. I think as part of a stage play or musical it would fit in really well and I'd be happy to buy tickets and sit in a theatre and watch this as part of a bigger story.

On it's own I think it will fade into obscurity to all apart from a dedicated few who will like this kind of stuff regardless.

The lad obviously has talent, though, and I wish him all the success that he seeks.

Over & out.

Octahedron · March 2023

thecolourbox said:

Octahedron said:

Placidcasual79 said:

Octahedron said:

I’m sorry but if this is the future of music I’m out!

That was, in two words, fucking shite.

The hair. The vocals. The guitar tone. Everything about it is just wrong…

I’ve heard more interesting/musical farts coming from a baby than this bollocks.

Totally @Octahedron - I mean what is this? It's not proper rock like Europe - they were a proper band...... there isn't even a guitar solo or any spandex or studs..... this guy could never play Nuno Bettencourt's second solo on the b-side to shotgun of love.... you know the one that starts after the eight drum solo at 14minutes 20.... the one when he steps on his tight fudge bender pedal and uses the suspended 2nd mixed Molly whopper scale with 7 minutes of finger tapping. Man thats real music. It's about the notes he doesn't play. That 2 hour pause before he starts the whole solo again? Wow. Brings a tear to my eye.....

I think we could all learn from you @Octahedron - if we all spent more time listening to baby farts instead of this b*llox music wouldn't be in such a sorry state today.

I’m familiar with “sarcasm”. I find it amusing that your automatic assumption is that I like Europe, Extreme, etc. and you’re absolutely correct. I do. However, that’s not what my original point was.

It’s funny, because I listened to another of the songs posted in the thread where it’s just him talking drivel over the top of the music from Bittersweet Symphony.

I just can’t get behind the idea that people actually consider this guy the “future of music”. It’s nonsense. Anyone can do what he’s doing with Garage Band and a few brain cells. It’s not original… People are free to like what they want but the idea that this is the future of music is absurd to me.

That would be an interesting Fretboard composition challenge - make a Ren style composition, bonus points if you can choreograph the performance of it as well. Would be an interesting way to test the theory that you only need garage band and a few brain cells to do it

The way things are going, AI could probably reproduce Ren. Well, pretty much most genres. Probably with varying degrees of success with the more obscure types but I wouldn’t be surprised.

earwighoney said:

It's interesting to see the impact 'The Streets' (aka Mike Skinner) had on the landscape many years down the line.

Maybe a legacy equal some of the guitar bands like Oasis and so on.

Interestingly, I had forgotten about The Streets. It’s not my jam. I used to often catch his music videos when flicking between the music channels on Sky tv as a kid. Definitely see the similarities there.

darthed1981 said:

Octahedron said:

Placidcasual79 said:

Octahedron said:

I’m sorry but if this is the future of music I’m out!

That was, in two words, fucking shite.

The hair. The vocals. The guitar tone. Everything about it is just wrong…

I’ve heard more interesting/musical farts coming from a baby than this bollocks.

Totally @Octahedron - I mean what is this? It's not proper rock like Europe - they were a proper band...... there isn't even a guitar solo or any spandex or studs..... this guy could never play Nuno Bettencourt's second solo on the b-side to shotgun of love.... you know the one that starts after the eight drum solo at 14minutes 20.... the one when he steps on his tight fudge bender pedal and uses the suspended 2nd mixed Molly whopper scale with 7 minutes of finger tapping. Man thats real music. It's about the notes he doesn't play. That 2 hour pause before he starts the whole solo again? Wow. Brings a tear to my eye.....

I think we could all learn from you @Octahedron - if we all spent more time listening to baby farts instead of this b*llox music wouldn't be in such a sorry state today.

I’m familiar with “sarcasm”. I find it amusing that your automatic assumption is that I like Europe, Extreme, etc. and you’re absolutely correct. I do. ...

Well done Sir, a lot of people would have pretended not to at that point to try and win, fair play!

The overall point though is that if you are from the era of Europe and Extreme, you would probably concede a lot of people consider that era ridiculous, misogynistic, high-camp twaddle. I certainly do, except for the odd song (it's hard not to like "Final Countdown", however silly it is, or "More Than Words").

That however has no effect on whether YOU like it or not. It has an audience of people who love it, and you quite rightly don't give a toss if I don't like it, because it brings you pleasure.

If Ren gets an audience, and critical acclaim, both of which are growing, then he can make a career in music, and whether you or I listen to him really doesn't matter - he will be "out there".

Music is a thoroughly subjective thing. The real beauty of the streaming era is that all music past and present is there for you to sample and find new things you like, I think that's great.

There is however no "right" or "wrong" way to make popular music, be it what Ren does (grime poet?) or hair metal, both are legitimate forms of artistic expression and potentially commercial product. We haven't a right to judge the first (analyse, discuss sure, judge, no) and the market takes care of the second.

I find it amusing that this (whether intentionally or unintentionally) insinuates that I am from that era. Makes me sound/feel old. I’m not. I missed that boat by 10-15 years. I’m not that old.

my parents are. However, both bands made a comeback (see Europe - Start from the Dark, which sounds nothing like The Final Countdown) and Extreme - Saudades de Rock, which sounds like all their past work but with modern production values.

thecolourbox · March 2023

Judging by that Steely Dan AI lyrics thread, I don't think Ren has too much to worry about...

thermionic · April 2023

jonnyburgo said:

thecolourbox said:

Grumpyrocker said:

jonnyburgo said:

Clearly talented but that accent that everyone uses nowadays bugs me.

Yes I managed about ten seconds of it.

I'm not sure I've heard anybody with that accent, I'm not a widely sociable person so that's not from a massive pool of people but still, if you are surrounded by people who talk like that I'd be quite concerned for you

London Mandem accent. Quite common nowadays on the mean streets, get with it grandad.

He’s from the same part of north Wales as me, no idea where he got that accent.

littlegreenman · April 2023

thermionic said:

jonnyburgo said:

thecolourbox said:

Grumpyrocker said:

jonnyburgo said:

Clearly talented but that accent that everyone uses nowadays bugs me.

Yes I managed about ten seconds of it.

I'm not sure I've heard anybody with that accent, I'm not a widely sociable person so that's not from a massive pool of people but still, if you are surrounded by people who talk like that I'd be quite concerned for you

London Mandem accent. Quite common nowadays on the mean streets, get with it grandad.

He’s from the same part of north Wales as me, no idea where he got that accent.

Was sat on a train back to Liverpool from Conwy the other week and a bunch of kids from Llandudno were on and they all spoke like that! Weird...

In other news, found this one from Ren, so he's not just a one trick rap pony. Nice.

LastMantra · April 2023

I liked that.

Kittyfrisk · April 2023

littlegreenman said:

*snip*
Was sat on a train back to Liverpool from Conwy the other week and a bunch of kids from Llandudno were on and they all spoke like that! Weird...

In other news, found this one from Ren, so he's not just a one trick rap pony. Nice.

Ren is not a one trick act, but Chinchilla clearly has all the talons.

Jfingers · April 2023

I've just listened to the Ren X Chinchilla thing twice.

I really enjoyed it and will be showing to my other half later. I was born in 1967.

The harmonies were ace, I hated his haircut and her fake fingernails but the song worked for me.

Art is subjective. As a guitar forum we of all people should understand that. Live and let live 'n shit.

ewal · April 2023

What's so bad about his haircut? I thought everyone liked a nice short back and sides?

LastMantra · April 2023

It's not a look I thought would come back tbh, I remember people looking a lot like that when I was at school in the early nineties. The shellsuit too.

Who cares though?! Jeez

Jfingers · April 2023

My Daughter lives in Brighton now. I wish I had the chance to see him and his chosen ones doing their thing on the street in the sunshine.

He's a very talented musician. I couldn't give a tuppenny fuck about his haircut now. It's all about the music. I'm 56 and into folk and alt country/Americana ya know...

Litterick · April 2023

Vintage65 said:

Here's his latest

Using that riff could be expensive.

dindude · April 2023

Litterick said:

Vintage65 said:

Here's his latest

Using that riff could be expensive.

The bass player of The Verve sent him one of his basses, so the band are likely cool with it, their record co. might de-monetise that’s all. Rick Beato would love REN as he actively encourages people to use his material in their videos for reactions etc.

His latest one isn’t my usual thing at all but I think it’s great. The story he tells of the making the video is also interesting, filmed in a shopping centre basement turned homeless squat. It ain’t your usual rap G-wagons and bling for sure.

https://youtu.be/tB-JGSdBerE

Kittyfrisk · April 2023

Litterick said:

Vintage65 said:

Here's his latest

Using that riff could be expensive.

Haven't the slightest clue what you mean... unless you are an early Stones fan

https://www.musicradar.com/news/diddy-sting-5k-per-day-sample

fretmeister · April 2023

I like his covers more.

https://youtu.be/azAD9KE9HKE

PotentialDonkey · May 2023

Bit weird, but I suppose it's kind of the point really.

Creative? Pretty creative. No doubt. Not sure about "future of music" but something a bit different.

I think it is entirely possible that his seemingly self-deprecating lyrics are his most endearing.

Haych · May 2023

fretmeister said:

I like his covers more.

https://youtu.be/azAD9KE9HKE

To be fair, that was bloody good. I enjoyed that, thanks.

lustycourtier · May 2023

Litterick said:

Vintage65 said:

Here's his latest

Using that riff could be expensive.

Why? The verve have never made a penny from it, all the money went to the Jagger/Richards. Ren wont of made the same mistake

lustycourtier · May 2023

dindude said:

Litterick said:

Vintage65 said:

Here's his latest

Using that riff could be expensive.

The bass player of The Verve sent him one of his basses, so the band are likely cool with it, their record co. might de-monetise that’s all. Rick Beato would love REN as he actively encourages people to use his material in their videos for reactions etc.

His latest one isn’t my usual thing at all but I think it’s great. The story he tells of the making the video is also interesting, filmed in a shopping centre basement turned homeless squat. It ain’t your usual rap G-wagons and bling for sure.

https://youtu.be/tB-JGSdBerE

It wasnt a bass, it was a mullard guitar. Its in this weeks Justin Hawkins rides again. Mike Mullard is currently making him another.

BS isnt a verve riff, its a rolling stones one which, due to an admin error before urban hymns came out, wasnt cleared and so the song has cost them for 29 years, and counting.

Kittyfrisk · May 2023

@lustycourtier

BS isnt a verve riff, its a rolling stones one which, due to an admin error before urban hymns came out, wasnt cleared and so the song has cost them for 29 years, and counting.

That was the point I was making (or attempting to).

euan · May 2023

Jagger and Richard’s actually handed over the rights in 2019, so the Verve having been taking royalties

Kittyfrisk · May 2023

^ True, it's complicated... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48380600

dindude · May 2023

lustycourtier said:

dindude said:

Litterick said:

Vintage65 said:

Here's his latest

Using that riff could be expensive.

The bass player of The Verve sent him one of his basses, so the band are likely cool with it, their record co. might de-monetise that’s all. Rick Beato would love REN as he actively encourages people to use his material in their videos for reactions etc.

His latest one isn’t my usual thing at all but I think it’s great. The story he tells of the making the video is also interesting, filmed in a shopping centre basement turned homeless squat. It ain’t your usual rap G-wagons and bling for sure.

https://youtu.be/tB-JGSdBerE

It wasnt a bass, it was a mullard guitar. Its in this weeks Justin Hawkins rides again. Mike Mullard is currently making him another.

BS isnt a verve riff, its a rolling stones one which, due to an admin error before urban hymns came out, wasnt cleared and so the song has cost them for 29 years, and counting.

Yeah, I’m aware of the Stones origins, but REN is obviously playing against BS, not The Last Time by the Stones or an orchestral version thereof, and as said The Verve have the rights now.

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