The Football Thread.

axisus · May 2022

cruxiform said:

The best manager they had since Ferguson was Mourinho and they sacked him.

They might have won a mickey mouse trophy with him, but he was sh*te. Utterly poisonous. He was amazing when he first went to Chelsea, but he has been a self obsessed, arrogant tw*t ever since. Such a negative, difficult, whiny, stroppy git.

cruxiform said:
On the upside, as a Palace fan, I love watching them disintegrate while Liverpool and Man C play football at a level that Man U are unlikely to achieve. It's delicious.

I understand that! I feel the same when other clubs fail. Also I'm happy to take it on the chin, I lived through, and loved all the Man U glory years with Fergie so I can't complain. Man U fans are now living what Liverpool fans had for many years ...

DrCornelius · May 2022

cruxiform said:

DrCornelius said:

Springywheel said:

bloodandtears said:

Slippy g could win the title for Liverpool....

Slippy G... That's original and not overused at all

@Springywheel , are you a liverpool fan ? Honest question and I’m not trying to provoke but as a Palace fan , I chortle when I hear the slippy g stuff . He’s one of the greatest midfielders of my lifetime and liverpool are incredible at the moment so I would have thought throw away stuff like that would just bounce off .

The only player we’ve ever had close to Gerard was Wrighty and he buggered off to Arsenal for his best years.

'Shaun Derry, Derry
He's better than Stevie G,
More faithful than John Terry,
Shaun Derry, Derry'.

Yep that’s about our level (although looking good under PV eh ?) . I think other fans take the piss out of Gerard’s slip out of jealousy really . The guy won games single handed on his day and any football fan would have wanted him in their side

Bidley · May 2022

thecolourbox said:

No I'm not suggesting he's carried you at all, you've created the opportunities as a team and all the way through the season. But what I mean is, there are other teams who have looked just as good, but didn't have a goalscorer.

It's a poor quality league this year, you went up the same time we did last time I think and that was a much better quality league. Hopefully you've built on it each year and will do better next season - I can't see anybody else going up and doing anything other than Fulham.

I think the best side we've seen at the Hawthorns this season was Preston, bizarrely. But then we probably dragged the better teams down to our shitty level (we certainly did to Bournemouth!)

Yes that's fair. If your Bournemouths, Prestons, Blackburns, Forests had a player who scored over 40 goals in a season they would've done much better.

Still, I'm happy with winning a poor quality league title

TTony · May 2022

axisus said:

cruxiform said:

The best manager they had since Ferguson was Mourinho and they sacked him.

They might have won a mickey mouse trophy with him, but he was sh*te. Utterly poisonous. He was amazing when he first went to Chelsea, but he has been a self obsessed, arrogant tw*t ever since. Such a negative, difficult, whiny, stroppy git.

Yet when he came to Spurs, he was completely different.

Won bugger all.

thecolourbox · May 2022

Bidley said:

thecolourbox said:

No I'm not suggesting he's carried you at all, you've created the opportunities as a team and all the way through the season. But what I mean is, there are other teams who have looked just as good, but didn't have a goalscorer.

It's a poor quality league this year, you went up the same time we did last time I think and that was a much better quality league. Hopefully you've built on it each year and will do better next season - I can't see anybody else going up and doing anything other than Fulham.

I think the best side we've seen at the Hawthorns this season was Preston, bizarrely. But then we probably dragged the better teams down to our shitty level (we certainly did to Bournemouth!)

Yes that's fair. If your Bournemouths, Prestons, Blackburns, Forests had a player who scored over 40 goals in a season they would've done much better.

Still, I'm happy with winning a poor quality league title

And very well deserved, been up there the whole time and clearly a level up from everybody else. And what a way to finally seal the deal!

TeleMaster · May 2022

Philly_Q said:

axisus said:

TeleMaster said:

It seems mad to me that anyone would suggest that Ronaldo is any kind of problem at Man UTD. He's saved them multiple times and they'd be 10th and out of the group stages of the CL if it wasn't for him. He seems to be the only player who cares.

It's a two sided coin. Yes, he's scored a lot of goals and that is great, but the flip side is that he is ageing, doesn't/can't run as much, isn't always a 'team' player etc. You can't build a team around him at this age, and he can be seen to be stifling planning how you want a team to play. You really want a setup like City/L'pool where they have very cohesive teams. For whatever reason, most of the Man U team have been poor this season. There was no reason to think they would be this bad (second last season) so maybe Ronaldo has unbalanced things?

Exactly. I heard this being debated on the radio the other week. Pundit no.1 was arguing that Ronaldo has scored a significant percentage of Man U's goals this season, so without him they wouldn't have won the games they did win, therefore he's their most valuable player. Pundit no.2 didn't make his case very well, but I think his argument was that if they hadn't had to accommodate Ronaldo, more goals might have come from other players and maybe they'd have functioned as more of a team. So contradictory as it seems, perhaps he has held them back.

What makes anyone think that if Ronaldo wasn't there that someone else would've scored the goals? Who?

Sorry but I disagree. He's been their only significant player and the only one passionate enough to give a shit amongst a group who don't seem to care.

If Aguero wasn't at City someone else might have scored the goals, sure. But not in this UTD team. If it's not Ronaldo single-handedly dragging wins from the scraps he received it's no one. And if he played for Liverpool or City he'd have scored 30 plus. It's also worth mentioning he has ever tracked back in the way you're thinking.

Imagine putting the blame of a team that has had poor investment and poor management for nearly 10 years onto the only player who actually done anything. He hasn't held them back.

BigBearKris · May 2022

UP THE CHERRIES!!!

Bidley · May 2022

Philly_Q said:

axisus said:

TeleMaster said:

It seems mad to me that anyone would suggest that Ronaldo is any kind of problem at Man UTD. He's saved them multiple times and they'd be 10th and out of the group stages of the CL if it wasn't for him. He seems to be the only player who cares.

It's a two sided coin. Yes, he's scored a lot of goals and that is great, but the flip side is that he is ageing, doesn't/can't run as much, isn't always a 'team' player etc. You can't build a team around him at this age, and he can be seen to be stifling planning how you want a team to play. You really want a setup like City/L'pool where they have very cohesive teams. For whatever reason, most of the Man U team have been poor this season. There was no reason to think they would be this bad (second last season) so maybe Ronaldo has unbalanced things?

Exactly. I heard this being debated on the radio the other week. Pundit no.1 was arguing that Ronaldo has scored a significant percentage of Man U's goals this season, so without him they wouldn't have won the games they did win, therefore he's their most valuable player. Pundit no.2 didn't make his case very well, but I think his argument was that if they hadn't had to accommodate Ronaldo, more goals might have come from other players and maybe they'd have functioned as more of a team. So contradictory as it seems, perhaps he has held them back.

Perfectly sums up the quality of punditry in general. Pundit 1 is stating facts. Pundit 2 is speculating based on... Nothing.

He might not be their most valuable player, but to argue that a team would be better without one of the greatest players of all time is mind-boggling. I'd leave if I were him - imagine being the only player doing the business while the rest of your team (many of which are around ten years younger) continually underperforms and puts in a fraction of your effort and commitment, and you're the one singled out for criticism.

TDubs · May 2022

BigBearKris said:

UP THE CHERRIES!!!

IN ALL DEPARTMENTS!!!!

axisus · May 2022

Bidley said:

Philly_Q said:

axisus said:

TeleMaster said:

It seems mad to me that anyone would suggest that Ronaldo is any kind of problem at Man UTD. He's saved them multiple times and they'd be 10th and out of the group stages of the CL if it wasn't for him. He seems to be the only player who cares.

It's a two sided coin. Yes, he's scored a lot of goals and that is great, but the flip side is that he is ageing, doesn't/can't run as much, isn't always a 'team' player etc. You can't build a team around him at this age, and he can be seen to be stifling planning how you want a team to play. You really want a setup like City/L'pool where they have very cohesive teams. For whatever reason, most of the Man U team have been poor this season. There was no reason to think they would be this bad (second last season) so maybe Ronaldo has unbalanced things?

Exactly. I heard this being debated on the radio the other week. Pundit no.1 was arguing that Ronaldo has scored a significant percentage of Man U's goals this season, so without him they wouldn't have won the games they did win, therefore he's their most valuable player. Pundit no.2 didn't make his case very well, but I think his argument was that if they hadn't had to accommodate Ronaldo, more goals might have come from other players and maybe they'd have functioned as more of a team. So contradictory as it seems, perhaps he has held them back.

Perfectly sums up the quality of punditry in general. Pundit 1 is stating facts. Pundit 2 is speculating based on... Nothing.

He might not be their most valuable player, but to argue that a team would be better without one of the greatest players of all time is mind-boggling. I'd leave if I were him - imagine being the only player doing the business while the rest of your team (many of which are around ten years younger) continually underperforms and puts in a fraction of your effort and commitment, and you're the one singled out for criticism.

That is a valid opinion, but so is the other one. The 'obvious' thing is not always the right one.

And pundit speculation is what they are paid for!?! We all know the facts!

menamestom · May 2022

On Ronaldo, there was at some stage an argument that his lack of tracking back would stop United being so dynamic. The team finished 2nd last season above Liverpool, only 12 points off the pace (I say 'only' relative to this season). Cavani was playing well and Greenwood was emerging as a force. Rashford was going to push on. Ronaldo wasn't really a Solskjær signing. We needed a centre half and a CDM. We got the centre half but no CDM and a winger we didn't really need. Personally I think Ronaldo and Sancho were board signings to sell shirts and not really what the manager wanted.

BUT it's Ronaldo, when doesn't he perform on the pitch? And what manager wouldn't want him?

He may have upset the balance of the team but then:-

Greenwood ended his career
Rashford didn't push on, he literally has forgot where the goal is.
Cavani is permanently injured and got a massive hump that United signed Ronaldo
Lingard is desperate to leave and should have been let go in Jan (when we could have signed a CDM)
Martial was loaned out
Sancho has taken time to bed in and adapt to the PL

So, perhaps he could have upset the balance of the team, in a parallel universe where none of the above happened but, because of a complete implosion at the club, he has stood out as literally the only player good enough to drag the team beyond potentially the lower half of the league.

I'm taking this season as ground zero. New exciting manager coming in, new scouting team being appointed. New CEO. Lots of players leaving due to being at the end of their careers or wanting a change. It's an opportunity to start building properly. I just hope we don't go chasing marquee signings, over priced British players to win the ego bidding war. We need to buy smart at the right price. Hungry players that are perhaps on the up. We won't attract the worlds best now, being a shambles not in the CL, but we can attract players from around the world that want to put it on the line for the club and build a team. There is no 'team' at the moment. Just a collection of overpaid players relying on a 37 year old striker and goalkeeper to stop things getting any worse.

guitars4you · May 2022

An interesting stat I picked up on SKY MNF about 10 days ago - The hope was that Ronaldo and Bruno would somehow create magic between them - At that point in time Bruno assists for Ronaldo was 3 - Ronaldo assists for Bruno was 0

Another stat, this time Messi v Ronaldo - Messi goals scored 775 v 814 Ronaldo so not much in that - Messi assists 333 v 231 Ronaldo - What this stat doesn't show is how many potential assists either player created, but the chance was not converted

Maybe easy to say Ronaldo is in it for himself - But equally that isn't fair - As an overview I think Man U had 3 big ego's to manage this year, with Pogba, Bruno and Ronaldo and this is not good for the team - I think Bruno needs to get back to the Bruno who first arrived at Man U and forget this perpetual dissent, moaning and himself picking up to many yellow cards - Maybe it is led by frustration - But Man U need the earlier Bruno

No argument that Ronaldo is a superstar - The question is more about should Man U have signed him and if they did, then should the whole team and playing style have been created around him - Hence he does not need to press etc etc - In some ways you can ask the same questions about Lukaku - I think the stats show that his aggregate transfer fee is higher than any other player - He is only 28 but looking at the number of clubs he has played at, you'd have thought he was older - Why so many clubs - yes he can score - But is it the person that is the problem, or teams buy him and expect him to play in their set-up, that doesn't suit him, as against buying him as the central feature and build the team around him accordingly - I think before anyone else spends 70/80/90 million on him they need to look at that

As an overview on the PL - It has been a footballing pleasure to watch MCFC and LFC - They are sublime - Maybe Barcelona at their peak 5/10 years ago could match them - But the PL needs Man U, CFC plus Spurs and Arsenal to offer a more serious challenge - Maybe it won't stop a 2 horse race for now, but it might stop those 2 clubs winning/taking the top 2 spots by over 20 points each year - I think the point for now is not can Man U, CFC, Spurs or Arsenal raise their game to acquire 90 + points in a season to win as I don't believe they can - But to take more points from MCFC and LFC and drag them down into the 80's and that way turn the title into a closer run thing for 3-5 teams

guitars4you · May 2022

Didn't see that coming defeat from the jaws of victory - I bet LFC would prefer to play RM as well - Great tie as well over the 2 legs

Before kick off tonight, I bet if you asked MCFC fans to pick the one you can win and you can only select one, the CL or PL, I bet they'd choose the CL- Conversely ask LFC fans the same question then I'm sure they'd say PL, as they want to win it with fans present

Some good games to look fwd to

Placidcasual79 · May 2022

Madrid are having the post Ronaldo bounce that United will experience when he goes (I am totally ignoring Juve lol)

bertie · May 2022

hard luck City, but at least for us neutrals it makes it easier who to support in the final

Vamos Real

axisus · May 2022

Gotta feel for Man City in the CL semi. It looked done and dusted but they let Real mug them. Pep just can't get his team across the line. A great way to win but a horrible way to lose.

Now the final is a disaster! Real already have 13 European cup wins, Liverpool 6 and also going for the quadruple. It's a bloody nightmare! My only hope is that it goes to penalties, no-one misses for about 40 so they call the whole thing off.

CloudNine · May 2022

axisus said:

Now the final is a disaster! Real already have 13 European cup wins, Liverpool 6 and also going for the quadruple. It's a bloody nightmare! My only hope is that it goes to penalties, no-one misses for about 40 so they call the whole thing off.

A proper European Cup Final, with bonafide footballing royalty you mean.

TeleMaster · May 2022

What a game that was.

Now, I'm desperate for West Ham to win tonight. I've got an ear infection. I'm tired, but I'm going to the pub. We better bloody win!

axisus · May 2022

CloudNine said:

axisus said:

Now the final is a disaster! Real already have 13 European cup wins, Liverpool 6 and also going for the quadruple. It's a bloody nightmare! My only hope is that it goes to penalties, no-one misses for about 40 so they call the whole thing off.

A proper European Cup Final, with bonafide footballing royalty you mean.

You are not wrong ...

menamestom · May 2022

CloudNine said:

axisus said:

Now the final is a disaster! Real already have 13 European cup wins, Liverpool 6 and also going for the quadruple. It's a bloody nightmare! My only hope is that it goes to penalties, no-one misses for about 40 so they call the whole thing off.

A proper European Cup Final, with bonafide footballing royalty you mean.

Got to say, even as a Man United fan, it's incredible that Liverpool have tuned things round so well in 6 or 7 years to be probably the best in Europe over the last few years.

In the same time United have gone to also rans, or not even in the competition. Scary that by the time United are even back in it Liverpool could be on 8. That's football I suppose, we've had more than our fair share of glory so can't complain!

Obviously I'll be hoping Madrid win, but from a footballing perspective Liverpool deserve to win.

guitars4you · May 2022

menamestom said:

CloudNine said:

axisus said:

Now the final is a disaster! Real already have 13 European cup wins, Liverpool 6 and also going for the quadruple. It's a bloody nightmare! My only hope is that it goes to penalties, no-one misses for about 40 so they call the whole thing off.

A proper European Cup Final, with bonafide footballing royalty you mean.

Got to say, even as a Man United fan, it's incredible that Liverpool have tuned things round so well in 6 or 7 years to be probably the best in Europe over the last few years.

In the same time United have gone to also rans, or not even in the competition. Scary that by the time United are even back in it Liverpool could be on 8. That's football I suppose, we've had more than our fair share of glory so can't complain!

Obviously I'll be hoping Madrid win, but from a footballing perspective Liverpool deserve to win.

3rd time these two have met in the final - 1 all so far including an LFC win in Paris just over 40 years ago

Springywheel · May 2022

menamestom said:

CloudNine said:

axisus said:

Now the final is a disaster! Real already have 13 European cup wins, Liverpool 6 and also going for the quadruple. It's a bloody nightmare! My only hope is that it goes to penalties, no-one misses for about 40 so they call the whole thing off.

A proper European Cup Final, with bonafide footballing royalty you mean.

Got to say, even as a Man United fan, it's incredible that Liverpool have tuned things round so well in 6 or 7 years to be probably the best in Europe over the last few years.

In the same time United have gone to also rans, or not even in the competition. Scary that by the time United are even back in it Liverpool could be on 8. That's football I suppose, we've had more than our fair share of glory so can't complain!

Obviously I'll be hoping Madrid win, but from a footballing perspective Liverpool deserve to win.

Everything in football goes round in cycles ... I can only hope as a pool fan that by the time United's time comes round again it'll be you lot doing the catching up in terms of PL titles. Without City we'd probably be level at least, with a more sustained period of dominance.

Nitefly · May 2022

It was all my fault!

Watched it in the pub last night with my mate (a rabid City fan and former season-ticket holder) - at 89 minutes I said "Looks like an all-Brit final then"...

And then...

TeleMaster · May 2022

Life is just one big continual disappointment, isn't it.

TTony · May 2022

TeleMaster said:

Life is just one big continual disappointment, isn't it.

Welcome to my footballing world.

My highlight was reaching the CL final a few seasons back (and knocking MCFC out en route). Didn’t expect to win it.

And I’m still not entirely sure I didn’t dream it all.

TeleMaster · May 2022

TTony said:

TeleMaster said:

Life is just one big continual disappointment, isn't it.

Welcome to my footballing world.

My highlight was reaching the CL final a few seasons back (and knocking MCFC out en route). Didn’t expect to win it.

And I’m still not entirely sure I didn’t dream it all.

I think we share the same world. Mine might be worse considering the relegations.

menamestom · May 2022

menamestom said:

I'm taking this season as ground zero.

Okay, i’m taking this as ground zero.

Although I might change that a few times yet!

scrumhalf · May 2022

I'm worn out after watching that. Some heroic performances and, let's be honest, a big dollop of luck for Liverpool.

Typical Spurs, we beat Man City twice, draw with Liverpol twice and arse it up against Brighton and Brentford.

DrCornelius · May 2022

scrumhalf said:

I'm worn out after watching that. Some heroic performances and, let's be honest, a big dollop of luck for Liverpool.

Typical Spurs, we beat Man City twice, draw with Liverpol twice and arse it up against Brighton and Brentford.

watching that tonight must have been positive though, you only seem a couple of players away from being in the mix for next season

Philly_Q · May 2022

scrumhalf said:

I'm worn out after watching that. Some heroic performances and, let's be honest, a big dollop of luck for Liverpool.

Typical Spurs, we beat Man City twice, draw with Liverpol twice and arse it up against Brighton and Brentford.

On the other hand, as Brighton have shown today, they are a very good team. If they'd been able to score a few more goals and turn just a couple of draws into wins, they'd be pushing for the European places now

There really is strength in depth in the Premier League, with a couple of exceptions.

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