John Cruz Custom Guitars

danishbacon · September 2023

nero1701 said:

elstoof said:

You've got to wonder how he became a “masterbuilder” in the first place

It's likely easier to excel when there's a large organisation behind you. Once you branch out, you soon realise there's a lot of shit behind the scenes you never knew existed.

It's almost the DeLorean of the guitar world.

The DeLorean was and is cool though. John Cruz?

GoldenEraGuitars · September 2023

elstoof said:

You've got to wonder how he became a “masterbuilder” in the first place

It’s a very, very loose term. Because of the glorified myth that fender have created about their custom shop all they need is someone’s (ANYONES) name next to “masterbuilder” and folk with £10k in their back pockets will form an orderly line.

In short - marketing

Philly_Q · September 2023

It's probably got very little to do with him being a masterbuilder or not, and much more to do with his inability to run a business.

Offset · September 2023

elstoof said:

You've got to wonder how he became a “masterbuilder” in the first place

Seems like he is definitely a 'master' (sic) something, that's for sure.

Offset · September 2023

Philly_Q said:

It's probably got very little to do with him being a masterbuilder or not, and much more to do with his inability to run a business.

Where John Cruz failed, Ian Elson has succeeded. Who'd have thunk it?

euan · September 2023

Masterbuilders are glorified customisers. They pick blanks and get someone else to run CNC machines etc.

Hopefully he’s done in the guitar business

Philly_Q · September 2023

Offset said:

Philly_Q said:

It's probably got very little to do with him being a masterbuilder or not, and much more to do with his inability to run a business.

Where John Cruz failed, Ian Elson has succeeded. Who'd have thunk it?

Ooh, I'm imagining an unholy alliance now... the Injustice League...

"You build 'em John, I'll sell 'em. On Facebook."

Offset · September 2023

Philly_Q said:

Offset said:

Philly_Q said:

It's probably got very little to do with him being a masterbuilder or not, and much more to do with his inability to run a business.

Where John Cruz failed, Ian Elson has succeeded. Who'd have thunk it?

Ooh, I'm imagining an unholy alliance now... the Injustice League...

"You build 'em John, I'll sell 'em. On Facebook."

...via a raffle.

Dan_Halen · September 2023

Christ, several hundred thousand Euros were sent as a deposit and the order only partly delivered, and what did arrive wasn't any good. Then just ignored most comms and got his lawyer to answer like a coward. Tosser.

From that link - http://www.proguitar.de/news.html

"17.09.2023: JOHN CRUZ

One of the biggest disappointments in my over 30-year career as a high-end dealer of guitars and amps, has been my very disappointing dealings with John Cruz after his surprising departure from Fender.

I made good faith advances of several hundred thousand Euro’s in 2021 for instruments to be made by his company John Cruz Customs Guitars, LLC. Only a portion of those instruments were ever delivered, some of them with serious quality control problems. As of last October, a sizeable number still remained un-delivered. Of course, I have been reaching out to John during this entire experience, but most of those telephone calls and emails went unanswered.

I recently got an email from a lawyer representing John that informed me John’s company had gone out of business, disposed of all of its assets. My deposit money still owing me was gone, and there was no hope of receiving that back nor any more of the guitars I had paid for two years ago.

John did not have the courtesy to call me directly, but rather hid behind this lawyer.

I am done representing John Cruz guitars!

We no longer have any relationship with John or his Company."

elstoof · September 2023

tbh you’d have to be a bit of an idiot to send hundreds of thousands of euros as deposit - how many guitars is that? - to a startup brand with no reputation for deliving a reliable product, no idea whether the market will support the mind boggling price tag and no clue if you’ll be able to actually sell any

Whitecat · September 2023

elstoof said:

tbh you’d have to be a bit of an idiot to send hundreds of thousands of euros as deposit - how many guitars is that? - to a startup brand with no reputation for deliving a reliable product, no idea whether the market will support the mind boggling price tag and no clue if you’ll be able to actually sell any

... and to a guy with a seriously damaged reputation at that.

elstoof · September 2023

They retailed for 6k minimum, the shop would buy them for around 1/3 so £2k right? You’d need 100 on order to get into several hundred thousand euros full price, so the deposit was for a couple of hundred guitars of an unknown quality that you’ve then got to try and sell? Sod that

carlos · September 2023

advances of several hundred thousand Euro’s
Please ProGuitar, spend some of that money on a new website, one that doesn't look like it was made in 1999.

Lewy · September 2023

This was so obviously going to happen I can't believe anyone in the actual guitar business would have touched them on anything other than a sale or return basis, let alone paid substantial deposits. The early examples were all pretty ugly, with a polarising headstock design AND they were heavy by high end strat standards. Then to add to that, he released as video tour of the workshop that reveals that a number of the staff were basically still learning their craft. All surmountable I suppose if as an individual he carried a high degree of personal charisma and goodwill.... oh hang on half the population who know who he is think he's a piece of shit and most of the others only knew who he was because they're Fender fanatics who'd never have a different name on the headstock.

Absolute madness but so predictable.

blueskunk · September 2023

Bargain

GoldenEraGuitars · September 2023

elstoof said:

They retailed for 6k minimum, the shop would buy them for around 1/3 so £2k right? You’d need 100 on order to get into several hundred thousand euros full price, so the deposit was for a couple of hundred guitars of an unknown quality that you’ve then got to try and sell? Sod that

It will have been more than £2k

nero1701 · September 2023

danishbacon said:

nero1701 said:

elstoof said:

You've got to wonder how he became a “masterbuilder” in the first place

It's likely easier to excel when there's a large organisation behind you. Once you branch out, you soon realise there's a lot of shit behind the scenes you never knew existed.

It's almost the DeLorean of the guitar world.

The DeLorean was and is cool though. John Cruz?

Was the context, John Delorean shone when working at GM, had GM £££ and boffins behind him.. Knew fuck all about running a car business.

danishbacon · September 2023

nero1701 said:

danishbacon said:

nero1701 said:

elstoof said:

You've got to wonder how he became a “masterbuilder” in the first place

It's likely easier to excel when there's a large organisation behind you. Once you branch out, you soon realise there's a lot of shit behind the scenes you never knew existed.

It's almost the DeLorean of the guitar world.

The DeLorean was and is cool though. John Cruz?

Was the context, John Delorean shone when working at GM, had GM £££ and boffins behind him.. Knew fuck all about running a car business.

I see (didn’t intend comment in a negative/questioning your rationale by the way!). I’m of the position that JC was just another name employed by Fender’s excellent marketing department and used to seriously increase margins. I think the level of sophistication or seriousness of business that JC has was evident in a few interview videos that I saw of his. Lots of bravado, lots of personality, not a lot of substance.

nero1701 · September 2023

danishbacon said:

nero1701 said:

danishbacon said:

nero1701 said:

elstoof said:

You've got to wonder how he became a “masterbuilder” in the first place

It's likely easier to excel when there's a large organisation behind you. Once you branch out, you soon realise there's a lot of shit behind the scenes you never knew existed.

It's almost the DeLorean of the guitar world.

The DeLorean was and is cool though. John Cruz?

Was the context, John Delorean shone when working at GM, had GM £££ and boffins behind him.. Knew fuck all about running a car business.

I see (didn’t intend comment in a negative/questioning your rationale by the way!). I’m of the position that JC was just another name employed by Fender’s excellent marketing department and used to seriously increase margins. I think the level of sophistication or seriousness of business that JC has was evident in a few interview videos that I saw of his. Lots of bravado, lots of personality, not a lot of substance.

I know buddy, was further explaining as im shit at getting my point over ;-)

WindmillGuitars · September 2023

elstoof said:

They retailed for 6k minimum, the shop would buy them for around 1/3 so £2k right? You’d need 100 on order to get into several hundred thousand euros full price, so the deposit was for a couple of hundred guitars of an unknown quality that you’ve then got to try and sell? Sod that

@elstoof Try £3600 a piece minimum

LionAquaLooper · September 2023

And people complain that guitar prices are ridiculously high these days. Blame the people who buy them at these prices, not the people who sell them.

Sassafras · September 2023

If £8k is considered excessive for a bolt-on does that mean it's a reasonable price for a set-neck?
I can't see any new guitar is worth anywhere near that unless it's made of gold.

Philly_Q · September 2023

Sassafras said:

If £8k is considered excessive for a bolt-on does that mean it's a reasonable price for a set-neck?
I can't see any new guitar is worth anywhere near that unless it's made of gold.

Come on, we all know every bolt-on is just two bits of wood screwed together. No other work involved whatsoever, FACT. None of them should be worth more than 400 quid. A set-neck is in a whole other dimension.

GoldenEraGuitars · September 2023

Philly_Q said:

Sassafras said:

If £8k is considered excessive for a bolt-on does that mean it's a reasonable price for a set-neck?
I can't see any new guitar is worth anywhere near that unless it's made of gold.

Come on, we all know every bolt-on is just two bits of wood screwed together. No other work involved whatsoever, FACT. None of them should be worth more than 400 quid. A set-neck is in a whole other dimension.

LOL

Aidanspaghetti · October 2023

I bet Cruz wishes he was more like Delorean and able to nip back in time.....

jeromegreenday · October 2023

I know someone who went to vegas, Bought a lot of drugs and women didn't pay for them then he came back to england, the dealers were on a plane across the atlantic banging on his mum and dads door, if they didn't re-mortgagethe house they'd kill him. They re-mortgaged the house, I know someone else who did something similar and he killed himself.
He best go into hiding because people do things to get that kind of money back.

prlgmnr · October 2023

jeromegreenday said:

I know someone who went to vegas, Bought a lot of drugs and women didn't pay for them then he came back to england, the dealers were on a plane across the atlantic banging on his mum and dads door, if they didn't re-mortgagethe house they'd kill him. They re-mortgaged the house, I know someone else who did something similar and he killed himself.
He best go into hiding because people do things to get that kind of money back.

I'd be somewhat surprised if Proguitar.de go down that route

GoFish · October 2023

Philly_Q said:

Sassafras said:

If £8k is considered excessive for a bolt-on does that mean it's a reasonable price for a set-neck?
I can't see any new guitar is worth anywhere near that unless it's made of gold.

Come on, we all know every bolt-on is just two bits of wood screwed together. No other work involved whatsoever, FACT. None of them should be worth more than 400 quid. A set-neck is in a whole other dimension.

£450?

carlos · October 2023

jeromegreenday said:

I know someone who went to vegas, Bought a lot of drugs and women didn't pay for them then he came back to england, the dealers were on a plane across the atlantic banging on his mum and dads door, if they didn't re-mortgagethe house they'd kill him. They re-mortgaged the house, I know someone else who did something similar and he killed himself.
He best go into hiding because people do things to get that kind of money back.

that's a pub story if I've ever heard one.

Offset · October 2023

jeromegreenday said:

I know someone who went to vegas, Bought a lot of drugs and women didn't pay for them then he came back to england, the dealers were on a plane across the atlantic banging on his mum and dads door, if they didn't re-mortgagethe house they'd kill him. They re-mortgaged the house, I know someone else who did something similar and he killed himself.
He best go into hiding because people do things to get that kind of money back.

The boys are headed to rural Tennessee even as I type.

Samuel L Jackson

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