The Fractal Thread

welshboyo · July 2023

FarleyUK said:

Haha, so that was you, was it??

I agree though, and commented as much - it's great to have options, but I (for now) prefer my go-to IRs.

It's a VERY strange place over there; the only reason I still tend to visit is for Leon's insights. All the other experts can jog-on, as far as I'm concerned.

Also, it's not just The Cult of Cliff who are problematic there; there's a certain ex-member from here who keeps stalking and harassing me. All a bit sad, really.

Yes, it was me...on the naughty step, should have known better....

Yep, I agree, Leon is the only one I tend to take notice of - the other so called Beta Testers (you know the ones...) are just full of their own self-importance..

I will have to give these DC's some time at some point, I think the concept of DC's in Fractal-World needs maturing a bit before the hype is relevant...what is interesting though as 1 guy over there pointed out is the new capture process for these DC's - different preamp etc etc, that could be why they are different and perhaps I don't get on with them..

@Jonathanthomas83 I'm here all day if you want to chastise me

FarleyUK · July 2023

On a related note with IRs.... I found a strange combo that I love. A JCM #34 amp, with the Santiago Altec 2x12 legacy IR. Almost instant Slash UYI tones to my (admittedly not great) ears.

drwiddly · July 2023

Jonathanthomas83 said:

mrkb said:

welshboyo said:

Well, that’ll teach me to have an opinion over on the Fractal Forum….

I can’t get on with Dyna Cabs at all, I’ve tried…but they are just not very good in my opinion and I feel they are a knee jerk reaction to what L6 released in last update - daren’t say that or I’ll get lynched ;-)

I hope they get better with time but for me a good Legacy IR beats them hands down - all of the ambiguity is taken out of the “tweaks” required philosophy and you are just left with worrying about Hi/Lo cuts!

The Legacy IR’s too have a bit more output in them so they come alive quicker (if that makes sense) and that could be a factor here?

Ive even tried at gig volume - and there was a marked difference with the same preset DC vs Legacy.

Oh well, at least the Cliffians get a chance to untwist their knickers..

Hmm, assuming you were the person who started the thread asking for opinions, then hasn’t commented in it since, I don’t see that you’ve been harassed. People are just stating where they are useful. I find them useful vs scrolling through 50 odd cab/mic combos, but others with a favourite IR might not, simples.

That's my use case too. The pain of wading through IR's is gone with Dana Cabs and that suits me down to the ground. I've had great luck with Dana Cabs for a Dual Rec, but am finding things like a Vox a little more challenging so am relying on Legacy there.

Do the Dana cabs give you all kinds of everything?

I’ll get me coat ….

Jonathanthomas83 · July 2023

Bloody phone.

DavusPG · July 2023

Just checked the thread out and it wasn't anywhere near as bad as I was expecting....Interesting that so many agreed with you @welshboyo. For what it's worth I agree too! Was really looking forward to Dyna Cabs but found myself very underwhelmed with them at rehearsal last week and will be sticking with the couple of IRs I've been using for the last couple of years.

It amazes me how certain people on that forum find the time to actually play the guitar. They must be permanently sat at their computers bashing out replies, imparting their own supposed expertise whilst simultaneously crawling further up Cliffs arse

welshboyo · July 2023

DavusPG said:

Just checked the thread out and it wasn't anywhere near as bad as I was expecting....Interesting that so many agreed with you @welshboyo. For what it's worth I agree too! Was really looking forward to Dyna Cabs but found myself very underwhelmed with them at rehearsal last week and will be sticking with the couple of IRs I've been using for the last couple of years.

It amazes me how certain people on that forum find the time to actually play the guitar. They must be permanently sat at their computers bashing out replies, imparting their own supposed expertise whilst simultaneously crawling further up Cliffs arse

Lol and Wis if I could mate!!

In all fairness, that guy who screenshoted his from his AF3 actually sounds OK, but as far as mic placement is concerned (or at least where the dots are) it's totally unlike where I would position a mic and in the real world would be impossible...unless its different speakers in a 412?

However, saying that, switching back to a similar IR, it still sounds better...

Oh, and I'm obviously on one of the Beta Tester's ignore list as he hasn't responded to the thread in his usual pedantic manner - I must have upset him last time around about enabling the USB port on the FM3...

FarleyUK · July 2023

Image: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/191/035/135.png

octatonic · July 2023

This might be interesting to someone here.
I got sick of the fan noise from my Axe FX III in the otherwise silent control room so I moved it into my machine room.

This created a bit of an issue for me, which is how do I get an unbalanced cable through to the machine room without getting too much noise.

I have analogue (balanced) tie lines between the two rooms and spent a couple of hours trying different options.

The cable run from the mix position to the back of the Axe FX is about 10m.
I've connected the AFX III to my audio interface (Avid MTRX II) using AES/EBU.

Here are the various things I tried:

1. Guitar -> 10m long unbalanced cable -> Axe FX III unbalanced input
It worked but incurred a tonal penalty from the long cable plus it was impossible to have it completely avoid power cabling and therefore ended up being a bit noisy.

2. Guitar -> buffered pedal -> 10m long unbalanced cable -> Axe FX III unbalanced input
Mitigated the tonal penalty but not the noise.

3. Guitar -> API Tranzformer LX preamp pedal -> 10m XLR cable -> Radial XAMP -> Axe FX unbalanced input.

This sounded great.
The API outputs at line level, which is connected into one of the tie lines and the Radial takes it from +4dBu down to guitar level.
But I don't like having things on the floor to trip on.

4. This is what I am actually settling on.

Guitar -> any of my mic preamps with a DI (usually API 512v or 512v) -> Avid MTRX II -> Axe FX III AES/EBU input .

It has number advantages over the other set ups.
First the MTRX II's analogue to digital converters are an order of magnitude better than the Axe FX III's.
It greatly simplifies cabling, a 10ft guitar cable into a preamp HiZ input is all I need.
It is possible to switch 'Input 1' on the AFX globally to the AES/EBU input so all my patches just work, providing I get the input level right.

Latency is lower than going into the AFX's instrument input, converting to digital, back to analogue (AFX III out) and then back to digital (MTRX II in).

I did a bunch of A/B tests against the other options.
Along with option 3 this sounded best.

I do wish the AFX had BNC word clock though- everything is synced via BNC word clock.

Gadget · July 2023

@octatonic ;

Did you try a semi-balanced cable, such as Pete Cornish?

octatonic · July 2023

Gadget said:

@octatonic ;

Did you try a semi-balanced cable, such as Pete Cornish?

I did not.
I probably should, but I'd need to make it up.

firepaulmusic · August 2023

For anyone struggling with getting sounds and useable performance out of their FM9 etc just watch this guy. I copied his settings and it sounds great...

ToneControl · August 2023

octatonic said:

This might be interesting to someone here.
I got sick of the fan noise from my Axe FX III in the otherwise silent control room so I moved it into my machine room.

This created a bit of an issue for me, which is how do I get an unbalanced cable through to the machine room without getting too much noise.

I have analogue (balanced) tie lines between the two rooms and spent a couple of hours trying different options.

The cable run from the mix position to the back of the Axe FX is about 10m.
I've connected the AFX III to my audio interface (Avid MTRX II) using AES/EBU.

Here are the various things I tried:

1. Guitar -> 10m long unbalanced cable -> Axe FX III unbalanced input
It worked but incurred a tonal penalty from the long cable plus it was impossible to have it completely avoid power cabling and therefore ended up being a bit noisy.

2. Guitar -> buffered pedal -> 10m long unbalanced cable -> Axe FX III unbalanced input
Mitigated the tonal penalty but not the noise.

3. Guitar -> API Tranzformer LX preamp pedal -> 10m XLR cable -> Radial XAMP -> Axe FX unbalanced input.

This sounded great.
The API outputs at line level, which is connected into one of the tie lines and the Radial takes it from +4dBu down to guitar level.
But I don't like having things on the floor to trip on.

4. This is what I am actually settling on.

Guitar -> any of my mic preamps with a DI (usually API 512v or 512v) -> Avid MTRX II -> Axe FX III AES/EBU input .

It has number advantages over the other set ups.
First the MTRX II's analogue to digital converters are an order of magnitude better than the Axe FX III's.
It greatly simplifies cabling, a 10ft guitar cable into a preamp HiZ input is all I need.
It is possible to switch 'Input 1' on the AFX globally to the AES/EBU input so all my patches just work, providing I get the input level right.

Latency is lower than going into the AFX's instrument input, converting to digital, back to analogue (AFX III out) and then back to digital (MTRX II in).

I did a bunch of A/B tests against the other options.
Along with option 3 this sounded best.

I do wish the AFX had BNC word clock though- everything is synced via BNC word clock.

I replaced the fan with an ultra-low noise one

I just don't understand why Fractal messed up so much on the Mk2 and Mk3 for the fans. Yes it can run on stage in Saudi, so what? There should be a studio edition.

ToneControl · August 2023

Just bought an FM9 for jams, arrived 2 days ago.
Starting to wonder if I need the Mk3 now.

welshboyo · August 2023

firepaulmusic said:

For anyone struggling with getting sounds and useable performance out of their FM9 etc just watch this guy. I copied his settings and it sounds great...

Yeah, Pete is great, I’ve done the same of sorts, however, what is really close to being the perfect gigging preset for me is the Factory Plexi 100 preset…caught one of those shorts videos on Facebook using it and it’s all there…

octatonic · August 2023

ToneControl said:

Just bought an FM9 for jams, arrived 2 days ago.
Starting to wonder if I need the Mk3 now.

I've been messing about with V5 beta for the FM9 and trying to get my AFX III patches to work.

Here are a couple of audio files showing how close I can get.
They aren't level matched and the playing is a bit different in each take but I am pretty happy with the FM9, certainly enough to use live.

Pls excuse shitty riffing.

AFX III

FM9

octatonic · August 2023

ToneControl said:

octatonic said:

This might be interesting to someone here.
I got sick of the fan noise from my Axe FX III in the otherwise silent control room so I moved it into my machine room.

This created a bit of an issue for me, which is how do I get an unbalanced cable through to the machine room without getting too much noise.

I have analogue (balanced) tie lines between the two rooms and spent a couple of hours trying different options.

The cable run from the mix position to the back of the Axe FX is about 10m.
I've connected the AFX III to my audio interface (Avid MTRX II) using AES/EBU.

Here are the various things I tried:

1. Guitar -> 10m long unbalanced cable -> Axe FX III unbalanced input
It worked but incurred a tonal penalty from the long cable plus it was impossible to have it completely avoid power cabling and therefore ended up being a bit noisy.

2. Guitar -> buffered pedal -> 10m long unbalanced cable -> Axe FX III unbalanced input
Mitigated the tonal penalty but not the noise.

3. Guitar -> API Tranzformer LX preamp pedal -> 10m XLR cable -> Radial XAMP -> Axe FX unbalanced input.

This sounded great.
The API outputs at line level, which is connected into one of the tie lines and the Radial takes it from +4dBu down to guitar level.
But I don't like having things on the floor to trip on.

4. This is what I am actually settling on.

Guitar -> any of my mic preamps with a DI (usually API 512v or 512v) -> Avid MTRX II -> Axe FX III AES/EBU input .

It has number advantages over the other set ups.
First the MTRX II's analogue to digital converters are an order of magnitude better than the Axe FX III's.
It greatly simplifies cabling, a 10ft guitar cable into a preamp HiZ input is all I need.
It is possible to switch 'Input 1' on the AFX globally to the AES/EBU input so all my patches just work, providing I get the input level right.

Latency is lower than going into the AFX's instrument input, converting to digital, back to analogue (AFX III out) and then back to digital (MTRX II in).

I did a bunch of A/B tests against the other options.
Along with option 3 this sounded best.

I do wish the AFX had BNC word clock though- everything is synced via BNC word clock.

I replaced the fan with an ultra-low noise one

I just don't understand why Fractal messed up so much on the Mk2 and Mk3 for the fans. Yes it can run on stage in Saudi, so what? There should be a studio edition.

Agree.
Which fan did you use?

I still don't want it in the control room but it might be worth doing anyway.

ToneControl · August 2023

octatonic said:

ToneControl said:

octatonic said:

This might be interesting to someone here.
I got sick of the fan noise from my Axe FX III in the otherwise silent control room so I moved it into my machine room.

This created a bit of an issue for me, which is how do I get an unbalanced cable through to the machine room without getting too much noise.

I have analogue (balanced) tie lines between the two rooms and spent a couple of hours trying different options.

The cable run from the mix position to the back of the Axe FX is about 10m.
I've connected the AFX III to my audio interface (Avid MTRX II) using AES/EBU.

Here are the various things I tried:

1. Guitar -> 10m long unbalanced cable -> Axe FX III unbalanced input
It worked but incurred a tonal penalty from the long cable plus it was impossible to have it completely avoid power cabling and therefore ended up being a bit noisy.

2. Guitar -> buffered pedal -> 10m long unbalanced cable -> Axe FX III unbalanced input
Mitigated the tonal penalty but not the noise.

3. Guitar -> API Tranzformer LX preamp pedal -> 10m XLR cable -> Radial XAMP -> Axe FX unbalanced input.

This sounded great.
The API outputs at line level, which is connected into one of the tie lines and the Radial takes it from +4dBu down to guitar level.
But I don't like having things on the floor to trip on.

4. This is what I am actually settling on.

Guitar -> any of my mic preamps with a DI (usually API 512v or 512v) -> Avid MTRX II -> Axe FX III AES/EBU input .

It has number advantages over the other set ups.
First the MTRX II's analogue to digital converters are an order of magnitude better than the Axe FX III's.
It greatly simplifies cabling, a 10ft guitar cable into a preamp HiZ input is all I need.
It is possible to switch 'Input 1' on the AFX globally to the AES/EBU input so all my patches just work, providing I get the input level right.

Latency is lower than going into the AFX's instrument input, converting to digital, back to analogue (AFX III out) and then back to digital (MTRX II in).

I did a bunch of A/B tests against the other options.
Along with option 3 this sounded best.

I do wish the AFX had BNC word clock though- everything is synced via BNC word clock.

I replaced the fan with an ultra-low noise one

I just don't understand why Fractal messed up so much on the Mk2 and Mk3 for the fans. Yes it can run on stage in Saudi, so what? There should be a studio edition.

Agree.
Which fan did you use?

I still don't want it in the control room but it might be worth doing anyway.

This one:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00KF7T9MI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Noctua NF-R8 redux-1200, Ultra Quiet Silent Fan, 3-Pin, 1200 RPM (80mm, Grey)

I fitted that in 2018

I can't remember if I had to improvise the mounting or not

Also worth noting: I bought one of those cheap laser thermometers from Lidl to check the temperature of the chip in a CCTV PVR that had a whiny 1 inch fan. Turned out that fan was not needed at all, with the lid removed, it's been running fine for years now, there is a lot of over-engineering in some of these devices.

Since then, the Laser thermometer has lived in the kitchen, where it is incredibly useful for checking the temperature of pans, cooking food, and when warming up stuff in the microwave.

ToneControl · August 2023

octatonic said:

ToneControl said:

Just bought an FM9 for jams, arrived 2 days ago.
Starting to wonder if I need the Mk3 now.

I've been messing about with V5 beta for the FM9 and trying to get my AFX III patches to work.

Here are a couple of audio files showing how close I can get.
They aren't level matched and the playing is a bit different in each take but I am pretty happy with the FM9, certainly enough to use live.

Pls excuse shitty riffing.

AFX III

FM9

Sounds good, same sort of quality, just a little different in sound.
How do you rate the feel on the FM9?

I noticed a big step up in feel and sound from the Mk2 to the Mk3
I've never felt that feel on my Kemper, I'd say it's a step down, and the Helix I bought to go to jams is 2 steps down, hence this purchase.

So far I've ported my favourite patches, the first test for me was my old "Big sky"/Cloud type patch, which sounds great on the FM9, but I did have to lose one of the Multidelays of course.

The FM9 factory presets contain some gems, which I can't recall happening for the Mk2 or Mk3

octatonic · August 2023

ToneControl said:

octatonic said:

ToneControl said:

Just bought an FM9 for jams, arrived 2 days ago.
Starting to wonder if I need the Mk3 now.

I've been messing about with V5 beta for the FM9 and trying to get my AFX III patches to work.

Here are a couple of audio files showing how close I can get.
They aren't level matched and the playing is a bit different in each take but I am pretty happy with the FM9, certainly enough to use live.

Pls excuse shitty riffing.

AFX III

FM9

Sounds good, same sort of quality, just a little different in sound.
How do you rate the feel on the FM9?

I noticed a big step up in feel and sound from the Mk2 to the Mk3
I've never felt that feel on my Kemper, I'd say it's a step down, and the Helix I bought to go to jams is 2 steps down, hence this purchase.

So far I've ported my favourite patches, the first test for me was my old "Big sky"/Cloud type patch, which sounds great on the FM9, but I did have to lose one of the Multidelays of course.

The FM9 factory presets contain some gems, which I can't recall happening for the Mk2 or Mk3

Feel is great, I mean the patches feel the same but I am dealing with sub 1ms latency as I am using the SPDIF/AES outputs which go to my monitors (which have AES inputs)- minimal ADA stages so it is a bit quicker.

The only thing I really miss is the second pitch block absent in the FM9.

I've never used any of the presets on the Fractal devices so can't really comment.
The first thing I do when I get a new unit is move the presets to start at preset 64 so I can use the first banks.

firepaulmusic · August 2023

I just downloaded firmware 5.0 on my FM9. Each to his own as some have said they aren't blown away by Dyna Cabs but my first impressions are very positive. I found it quite easy to get a cab sound I was pleased with instead of wading through the stock cabs. Looking forward to trying out my revised Dyna Cab test patches through our PA soon...

Jonathanthomas83 · September 2023

All a bit quiet on the Fractal front! Wonder what they’re cooking up for us!?!

DavusPG · September 2023

Not fussed about more amps, cabs and effects, but more flexibility would be good. I'd quite like a few more control switches and things like the ability to assign channel changes to control switches etc

Jonathanthomas83 · September 2023

Good shout. I heard the other day that there’s no midi clock out capability. Kemper has that and it’s ideal for my needs. I wouldn’t begrudge an update with that functionality tbh.

Roland · September 2023

They’ve asked for beta testers, which could suggest that there is a significant re-write in progress. The other times when things have gone quiet have been when there’s new hardware on its way.

Nerine · September 2023

Had my FM9 a year next month.

Still love it. It’s fantastic.

That is all.

Can’t wait to get my amp sold so I can get a stereo SS power amp and a couple of 1x12 cabs. Gonna be epic.

Jonathanthomas83 · September 2023

Full fat Axe III v FM3? Anyone made the “downgrade” and missed anything?

Nerine · October 2023

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Full fat Axe III v FM3? Anyone made the “downgrade” and missed anything?

I've never tried out the full fat Axe III, but I'm never left wanting with my FM9t.

I'm not sure the same would apply with the FM3, though. I'd definitely miss the switching for a start, the dual amps are pretty integral to me, too. (I use a mixer block to switch between amps for seamless switching and it requires two amp blocks)

I feel like the FM9 is in a good spot for features, value, power, switching etc.

Roland · October 2023

Firmware 23 beta is out, and features hapless switching. I don’t normally upgrade until the bugs are caught, but I’m intrigued about what this does. So you know what I’m doing tonight.

mrkb · October 2023

Roland said:

Firmware 23 beta is out, and features hapless switching. I don’t normally upgrade until the bugs are caught, but I’m intrigued about what this does. So you know what I’m doing tonight.

I’m good at hapless switching

!

Roland · October 2023

mrkb said:

Roland said:

… hapless switching…

I’m good at hapless switching !

Bloody spillchucker.

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