The Fractal Thread

firepaulmusic · September 2020

AX8 for the past 3 years, no issues, great tone. Just now transitioning to Kemper for a change. Redsound active cab is great, may try a power amp and guitar cab in the near future...

Jonathanthomas83 · November 2022

Necro bumping this one because I miss it and now I have a vested interest in it again.

I've got an Axe FX III arriving this week and am wondering what rituals and best practices you lot tend to perform when setting it up to get the most out of it? Is there anything I need to bear in mind?

I mean, I'm not completely new to this as I had one two years ago (almost to the date), but am also wondering how things may have moved on since then.

I'm particularly keen to learn the setlist feature and hear how the amps have improved.

Roland · November 2022

I was at this point 15 months ago, but with several years’ experience of and Ultra and AxeFX II to work from. Some of what I learned was blogged - https://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/212278/axe-fx-iii-the-blog

What’s moved on?
1. With Ultra and AxeFX II I used the front panel most of the time. With the III there’s a lot more detail, and I find it easier to use AxeEdit. It allows me to copy and paste blocks between presets, and compare different settings.

2. The amp models are much, much better.
3. Fractal have started providing complex delay and reverb models. If they haven’t done it already then they will eventually cover all of the Strymon models.
4. MIDI control works differently. I use it to drive our lighting.
5. FC-6 and FC-12 footpedals can be programmed from AxeEdit. If you’ve got one it’s worth spending a little time working out a pedal layout which works for you.
6. You can build your own block library. Find a set of Amp block settings which work for you, and save them in your library.
7. Video support. Cooper Carter and Leon Todd are well worth following. G66 have a good YouTube library of these and other videos.
8. The setlist feature is easy, and invaluable for live use. I no longer have to write preset numbers on my setlist, and remember which scenes I use for intro/verse/chorus/bridge etc. Cooper Carter has done a good video about it.

Personally I’d begin by trying to emulate what you currently do with real world amps, cabs, and FX, using an amp and speaker combination that you currently own. That way you can distinguish between problems with set up parameters, with your monitoring, and with not understanding how to use the model of an amp type that you’ve never played.

A lot of people say start with factory presets. Personally I avoided that because they included stuff which I didn’t have experience of. Instead I started with a blank preset, and copied into it an amp and speaker from a preset. At first that meant transcribing my own setting from my AxeFX II. Since then I’ve looked at factory presets for ideas, but always copied them into my own preset.

Hope that helps.

Jonathanthomas83 · December 2022

Roland said:

I was at this point 15 months ago, but with several years’ experience of and Ultra and AxeFX II to work from. Some of what I learned was blogged - https://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/212278/axe-fx-iii-the-blog

What’s moved on?
1. With Ultra and AxeFX II I used the front panel most of the time. With the III there’s a lot more detail, and I find it easier to use AxeEdit. It allows me to copy and paste blocks between presets, and compare different settings.
2. The amp models are much, much better.
3. Fractal have started providing complex delay and reverb models. If they haven’t done it already then they will eventually cover all of the Strymon models.
4. MIDI control works differently. I use it to drive our lighting.
5. FC-6 and FC-12 footpedals can be programmed from AxeEdit. If you’ve got one it’s worth spending a little time working out a pedal layout which works for you.
6. You can build your own block library. Find a set of Amp block settings which work for you, and save them in your library.
7. Video support. Cooper Carter and Leon Todd are well worth following. G66 have a good YouTube library of these and other videos.
8. The setlist feature is easy, and invaluable for live use. I no longer have to write preset numbers on my setlist, and remember which scenes I use for intro/verse/chorus/bridge etc. Cooper Carter has done a good video about it.

Personally I’d begin by trying to emulate what you currently do with real world amps, cabs, and FX, using an amp and speaker combination that you currently own. That way you can distinguish between problems with set up parameters, with your monitoring, and with not understanding how to use the model of an amp type that you’ve never played.

A lot of people say start with factory presets. Personally I avoided that because they included stuff which I didn’t have experience of. Instead I started with a blank preset, and copied into it an amp and speaker from a preset. At first that meant transcribing my own setting from my AxeFX II. Since then I’ve looked at factory presets for ideas, but always copied them into my own preset.

Hope that helps.

I was absolutely hoping you'd chime in, @Roland, thank you! This is very helpful indeed! I didn't know about the block library thing, that's the kind of best practice advice, along with the copying the amp/cab into a fresh preset, that I was after. Superb!

mrkb · December 2022

The block library has improved recently, you can now save individual channels as well as full blocks (ie all four channels together). So you could save your favourite Fender amp config and load that into an existing high gain amp block (or a factory preset) as the clean channel and still keeep the other three channels unchanged. It’s a great feature.

Jonathanthomas83 · December 2022

Just got it and I'm experiencing a bit of a blanket over the sound. Mainly trying the 800, Recto and SLO presets right now. I have built my own and am noodling to try and work out how to make it sound more alive.

Monitoring as an aggregate device and using my RME interface headophone out which is ultra reliable and always sounds great. The Fractal headphones sound muffled too.

FarleyUK · December 2022

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Just got it and I'm experiencing a bit of a blanket over the sound. Mainly trying the 800, Recto and SLO presets right now. I have built my own and am noodling to try and work out how to make it sound more alive.

Monitoring as an aggregate device and using my RME interface headophone out which is ultra reliable and always sounds great. The Fractal headphones sound muffled too.

That doesn't sound right; maybe try a factory reset? Also try these vids:

Jonathanthomas83 · December 2022

FarleyUK said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Just got it and I'm experiencing a bit of a blanket over the sound. Mainly trying the 800, Recto and SLO presets right now. I have built my own and am noodling to try and work out how to make it sound more alive.

Monitoring as an aggregate device and using my RME interface headophone out which is ultra reliable and always sounds great. The Fractal headphones sound muffled too.

That doesn't sound right; maybe try a factory reset? Also try these vids:

Thank you @FarleyUK VERY much appreciated, mate! Will report back with my findings!

Nerine · December 2022

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Just got it and I'm experiencing a bit of a blanket over the sound. Mainly trying the 800, Recto and SLO presets right now. I have built my own and am noodling to try and work out how to make it sound more alive.

Monitoring as an aggregate device and using my RME interface headophone out which is ultra reliable and always sounds great. The Fractal headphones sound muffled too.

Yeah, the 800 is one of the brightest amps in the thing!

Did you buy it new or used?

Perhaps there’s some global EQ been applied??

I’d factory reset it.

Jonathanthomas83 · December 2022

Thank you @FarleyUK and @Nerine. I got this sorted a couple of weeks back thanks to your advice. Late in responding because I've been enjoying every minute of it. For now, it's the best thing I've bought in years. Done everything I've thrown at it. With ease, might I add. It sounds ridiculously good!

It's funny because I've owned two III's before and for the life of me, I couldn't get it to sound as good as this. No doubt there were factors at play, but it seems strange. Everything seems to have clicked this time around. Reminds me of how much I used to love my Axe FX II XL, I'd never have sold that if it weren't for the III announcement. They'll have to do some pretty groundbreaking stuff to warrant forking out for an Axe FX IV, I mean there's absolutely nothing left to desire with this unit as far as I'm concerned.

Honeymoon period goggles, no doubt, but I'm certainly happy a fortnight into owning it again.

FarleyUK · December 2022

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Thank you @FarleyUK and @Nerine. I got this sorted a couple of weeks back thanks to your advice. Late in responding because I've been enjoying every minute of it. For now, it's the best thing I've bought in years. Done everything I've thrown at it. With ease, might I add. It sounds ridiculously good!

It's funny because I've owned two III's before and for the life of me, I couldn't get it to sound as good as this. No doubt there were factors at play, but it seems strange. Everything seems to have clicked this time around. Reminds me of how much I used to love my Axe FX II XL, I'd never have sold that if it weren't for the III announcement. They'll have to do some pretty groundbreaking stuff to warrant forking out for an Axe FX IV, I mean there's absolutely nothing left to desire with this unit as far as I'm concerned.

Honeymoon period goggles, no doubt, but I'm certainly happy a fortnight into owning it again.

Also, the latest FW has really enhanced a lot of the models - especially the Marshalls. Could be that's also factoring in to things.

Glad you're enjoying it though!

Roland · December 2022

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Thank you @FarleyUK and @Nerine. I got this sorted a couple of weeks back thanks to your advice. ...

What was your solution?

Jonathanthomas83 · December 2022

Roland said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Thank you @FarleyUK and @Nerine. I got this sorted a couple of weeks back thanks to your advice. ...

What was your solution?

I documented everything here:

https://medium.com/redchairriffs/fractal-axe-fx-iii-setup-827550ee0f68

I'm not convinced one thing solved the issue, but perhaps a combination of settings tweaks and perhaps realisations factored into it.

IRs are and always will be the massive ball ache of a Fractal device, IMO. But somehow, I've managed to stumble across a few pearlers for my needs. So I'm happy in that regard.

I didn't know that I needed to change the A/C frequency. I'm unsure if it solved the issues I was having, probably not, but it hasn't hurt changing it to what's considered the standard for the UK...50Hz?!

But the realisation that the knobs are almost like for like on an actual JCM 800 really made things pop for me. As you can see in the blog I've written, the knobs on the Axe FX are almost identical to where I had them on my real amp. I set the master volume way too high when I first had the unit, and that's a mistake because it attenuated the top end of a JCM 800. And I never used to do that on my real amp. So a lot of this was user error and not remembering the basics of using an amplifier. The fact that the Fractal needs to be treated like one was both enlightening and rewarding to find out.

Roland · December 2022

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Roland said:
What was your solution?
I documented everything here:
https://medium.com/redchairriffs/fractal-axe-fx-iii-setup-827550ee0f68

Thanks.

FarleyUK · December 2022

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Roland said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Thank you @FarleyUK and @Nerine. I got this sorted a couple of weeks back thanks to your advice. ...

What was your solution?

I documented everything here:
https://medium.com/redchairriffs/fractal-axe-fx-iii-setup-827550ee0f68

I'm not convinced one thing solved the issue, but perhaps a combination of settings tweaks and perhaps realisations factored into it.

IRs are and always will be the massive ball ache of a Fractal device, IMO. But somehow, I've managed to stumble across a few pearlers for my needs. So I'm happy in that regard.

I didn't know that I needed to change the A/C frequency. I'm unsure if it solved the issues I was having, probably not, but it hasn't hurt changing it to what's considered the standard for the UK...50Hz?!

But the realisation that the knobs are almost like for like on an actual JCM 800 really made things pop for me. As you can see in the blog I've written, the knobs on the Axe FX are almost identical to where I had them on my real amp. I set the master volume way too high when I first had the unit, and that's a mistake because it attenuated the top end of a JCM 800. And I never used to do that on my real amp. So a lot of this was user error and not remembering the basics of using an amplifier. The fact that the Fractal needs to be treated like one was both enlightening and rewarding to find out.

Nice one, glad you're happy with it!

IRs are a real double-edged sword. I've got two I tend to now use on everything (as I use dual amps and cabs in parallel) - I use the OwnHammer Marshall TV H30 3-00 on one side and the OwnHammer Marshall TV M25 3-00 on the other. Just makes things easier to manage.

Roland · December 2022

FarleyUK said:

IRs are a real double-edged sword. I've got two I tend to now use on everything (as I use dual amps and cabs in parallel) - I use the OwnHammer Marshall TV H30 3-00 on one side and the OwnHammer Marshall TV M25 3-00 on the other. Just makes things easier to manage.

It took me several months to find the right IR, and that’s sticking with standard cabs and conventional mics. Even setting the mic proximity needed a dress rehearsal and two gigs, but then it can take that long to learn real world micing. Buying and selling real world amps and cabinets would have taken me a lot longer, and a lot more money.

DavusPG · December 2022

Ditto re: IRs

I have a couple I use and that's it. Only recently started fiddling with the proximity setting, but it's a powerful tool. It makes total sense as from my fairly limited experience micing guitar cabs, tiny movements can have a huge impact on the tone.

firepaulmusic · December 2022

I've also found IR's to be the thing that can drive you to distraction if you let it. I haven't found my 'go to' yet so any more recommendations much appreciated...

firepaulmusic · December 2022

Roland said:

FarleyUK said:

IRs are a real double-edged sword. I've got two I tend to now use on everything (as I use dual amps and cabs in parallel) - I use the OwnHammer Marshall TV H30 3-00 on one side and the OwnHammer Marshall TV M25 3-00 on the other. Just makes things easier to manage.

It took me several months to find the right IR, and that’s sticking with standard cabs and conventional mics. Even setting the mic proximity needed a dress rehearsal and two gigs, but then it can take that long to learn real world micing. Buying and selling real world amps and cabinets would have taken me a lot longer, and a lot more money.

Where do you set the proximity as a starting point? thanks

DavusPG · December 2022

Start at 0 and keep tweaking til you like what you hear

DavusPG · December 2022

From memory I think mine's around 2

Roland · December 2022

Mine’s at 2.5. It probably ought to be lower, but I like a warm sound. I did go as far as 5.0, which sounded good at home but lacked brightness in a live mix. Remember that I can’t hear much above 3.5kHz, so I have to go on other people’s opinions.

kennedydream1980 · December 2022

Leon Todd’s TV Mix Live IR. He’s has baked in some EQ settings specifically for live use. It takes a lot of the guess work out of it.

https://axechange.fractalaudio.com/detail.php?cab=711

Beexter · December 2022

Came here to say I recently picked up an FM3 and got a pair of JBL 305p MkII studio monitors to run it through at home. Holy moly - it's epic!

The current Gift of Tone preset series are great and have been really helpful to learn what it's capable of.

Still getting my head around the UI and how to get the best from it but the tones are glorious.

Jonathanthomas83 · December 2022

Thoughts on the FC12? Is it really worth that price? Seems bonkers for a controller. But I'd love to get one.

@Beexter ;said

Still getting my head around the UI and how to get the best from it but the tones are glorious.

Congrats, mate. Are you using Axe Edit or the unit itself? Axe Edit all the way, for me. Though I am trying to familiarise myself with the unit UI.

Beexter · December 2022

@Jonathanthomas83 - I'm trying to use the unit itself as much as possible rather than FM3 Edit so that I'm better able to make on the fly tweaks/ changes without having to be connected to a laptop.
In that regard, my HX Stomp/ HX Effects are far more intuitive but I'm sure I'll get there with the FM3 - it'll just take some time.

DavusPG · December 2022

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Thoughts on the FC12? Is it really worth that price? Seems bonkers for a controller. But I'd love to get one.

They are a lot of money, but I found it to be a real step up from the FC6, and I'm still missing the extra few switches now I'm on the FM9, but just means approaching things a little differently.

Mine was for sale on here for what I think was a very reasonable price, but I'm afraid you've missed out

Roland · December 2022

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Thoughts on the FC12? Is it really worth that price? Seems bonkers for a controller. But I'd love to get one.

It’s expensive, but integrates well with the AxeFX, including showing the tuner. I’ve previously used an FCB1010 and and MFC101. Compared with both the FC12 is much easier to configure and use, links up with a standard xlr cable, and it’s illuminated on a dark stage. I treated it as part of an AxeFX/FC12 package, and an alternative to the FM9.

When evaluating price I also look at through-life cost, and factor in the cost of my time spent tinkering, configuring, and maintaining. With the MFC I had to swap the boards around to move the buttons, and manually edit switch settings with multiple button presses. With the FCB I had to buy an additional chip, and a usb/midi interface, to programme it. Even then reconfiguring them both was tedious. With the FC12 it was a quick parameter change to configure my performance layout, and I haven’t touched it since. You can also switch between different layouts. Not something I use at the moment, but would if I wanted to use a looper.

FC12 or FC6? I want that many buttons across the lower row, one for each scene in a song. I want that number of buttons across the top for kicking individual FX in or out if I’m not using scenes, and for jumping songs.

FarleyUK · December 2022

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Thoughts on the FC12? Is it really worth that price? Seems bonkers for a controller. But I'd love to get one.

@Beexter ;said

Still getting my head around the UI and how to get the best from it but the tones are glorious.

Congrats, mate. Are you using Axe Edit or the unit itself? Axe Edit all the way, for me. Though I am trying to familiarise myself with the unit UI.

I don't think you need it if you have an FM9. I have one with my AFX3, but I've never had to connect it to the FM9. Every patch from the AFX3 has translated to the FM9 - I just needed to think about the layouts.

Jonathanthomas83 · December 2022

Thanks @Roland @FarleyUK. I have an Axe III and think I'd benefit from an FC12.

@roland you talk about tuner, I've noticed that Axe Edit tuner isn't as responsive as the Axe FX screen, which is amazing. Is the FC12 tuner as responsive?

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