Kdh Is back

Alex2678 · August 2023

I don’t agree that it’s a conflict of interests. It’s an alignment of interests. He’s trying to sell them to you in the videos, and he makes that as clear as can be. He’s making adverts. He makes money (potentially) in more ways than one when he successfully sells one to you, that’s business.
I don’t know where snake oil comes into it

digitalscream · August 2023

Alex2678 said:

I don’t agree that it’s a conflict of interests. It’s an alignment of interests. He’s trying to sell them to you in the videos, and he makes that as clear as can be. He’s making adverts. He makes money (potentially) in more ways than one when he successfully sells one to you, that’s business

And, more to the point, he isn't any more enthusiastic about Victory amps than he is about other high-end amps.

It's a complete non-story, just like everything else KDH does.

TeleMaster · August 2023

Alex2678 said:

I don’t agree that it’s a conflict of interests. It’s an alignment of interests. He’s trying to sell them to you in the videos, and he makes that as clear as can be. He’s making adverts. He makes money (potentially) in more ways than one when he successfully sells one to you, that’s business

When you present it as a review and act like it's impartial but one of the people has an undeclared investment that's misleading. There's actually laws against influencers misleading their audience, you know.

digitalscream · August 2023

TeleMaster said:

Alex2678 said:

I don’t agree that it’s a conflict of interests. It’s an alignment of interests. He’s trying to sell them to you in the videos, and he makes that as clear as can be. He’s making adverts. He makes money (potentially) in more ways than one when he successfully sells one to you, that’s business

When you present it as a review and act like it's impartial but one of the people has an undeclared investment that's misleading. There's actually laws against this stuff.

Except...show me where a Victory amp has been presented for review on the Andertons channel - as opposed to a demo, which is what they always say they're doing (their justification being that they can't give negative reviews, because they're actively selling all of the products on the channel).

A demo is very, very different to a review.

Alex2678 · August 2023

TeleMaster said:

Alex2678 said:

I don’t agree that it’s a conflict of interests. It’s an alignment of interests. He’s trying to sell them to you in the videos, and he makes that as clear as can be. He’s making adverts. He makes money (potentially) in more ways than one when he successfully sells one to you, that’s business

When you present it as a review and act like it's impartial but one of the people has an undeclared investment that's misleading. There's actually laws against this stuff.

Ah right, I agree with your point but I don’t agree that’s what the andertons videos do, they’re obviously and explicitly not impartial

TeleMaster · August 2023

UnclePsychosis said:

Anyone who thinks that a guitar shop doesn't have a vested interest in selling you the stuff they have in their shop shouldn't be allowed unsupervised access to the internet tbh.

I look forward to his next thrilling expose. "New in at ten: in shocking news, water is wet".

Everyone knows they're selling you stuff, but there's an obvious difference between going, this is a thing we sell, we like it, here's a demo. To, 'here's a thing, we done a review with three amps and it's better than the other amps' and then fails to tell those people that they are investors. These two scenarios are not the same thing just because people like the guy.

If 'anyone' thinks that's fair and right, and it doesn't omit key information, they're the ones who shouldn't be allowed unsupervised access to the Internet.

AndyGT75 · August 2023

TeleMaster said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Anyone who thinks that a guitar shop doesn't have a vested interest in selling you the stuff they have in their shop shouldn't be allowed unsupervised access to the internet tbh.

I look forward to his next thrilling expose. "New in at ten: in shocking news, water is wet".

Everyone knows they're selling you stuff, but there's an obvious difference between going, this is a thing we sell, we like it, here's a demo. To, 'here's a thing, we done a review with three amps and it's better than the other amps' and then fails to tell those people that they are investors. These two scenarios are not the same thing just because people like the guy.

If 'anyone' thinks that's fair and right, and it doesn't omit key information, they're the ones who shouldn't be allowed unsupervised access to the Internet.

Is anything ever fair and right? My personal opinion that is pretty much anyone with a business interest is disingenuous to some degree as their overarching aim is to make money. Im
cynical about absolutely every advert, every video and every sales person. I’ll satisfy myself that what I’m purchasing suits my needs before parting with money and I’ll take all the advertising glitz with a big pinch of salt. All these you tubers and social media influencers and everything else, aren’t making content for the good of their health and the advancement of mankind. There’s a motive behind it all.

TeleMaster · August 2023

Alex2678 said:

TeleMaster said:

Alex2678 said:

I don’t agree that it’s a conflict of interests. It’s an alignment of interests. He’s trying to sell them to you in the videos, and he makes that as clear as can be. He’s making adverts. He makes money (potentially) in more ways than one when he successfully sells one to you, that’s business

When you present it as a review and act like it's impartial but one of the people has an undeclared investment that's misleading. There's actually laws against this stuff.

Ah right, I agree with your point but I don’t agree that’s what the andertons videos do, they’re obviously and explicitly not impartial

I wouldn't say its obvious and explicit. There are plenty of people who will take a three amp comparison with a Victory and a Marshall and a Blackstar at face value. And I don't know if they're not being impartial, I'm just looking at this objectively, but to me, it appears like they are trying to be impartial by blindfolding themselves and the rest.

I'm aware they're trying to sell the products, but where is it explicitly mentioned in any video that they aren't being impartial in said three amp, or guess the guitar, or Squier vs Custom Shop blindfold challenge video?

TeleMaster · August 2023

AndyGT75 said:

TeleMaster said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Anyone who thinks that a guitar shop doesn't have a vested interest in selling you the stuff they have in their shop shouldn't be allowed unsupervised access to the internet tbh.

I look forward to his next thrilling expose. "New in at ten: in shocking news, water is wet".

Everyone knows they're selling you stuff, but there's an obvious difference between going, this is a thing we sell, we like it, here's a demo. To, 'here's a thing, we done a review with three amps and it's better than the other amps' and then fails to tell those people that they are investors. These two scenarios are not the same thing just because people like the guy.

If 'anyone' thinks that's fair and right, and it doesn't omit key information, they're the ones who shouldn't be allowed unsupervised access to the Internet.

Is anything ever fair and right? My personal opinion that is pretty much anyone with a business interest is disingenuous to some degree as their overarching aim is to make money. Im
cynical about absolutely every advert, every video and every sales person. I’ll satisfy myself that what I’m purchasing suits my needs before parting with money and I’ll take all the advertising glitz with a big pinch of salt. All these you tubers and social media influencers and everything else, aren’t making content for the good of their health and the advancement of mankind. There’s a motive behind it all.

Maybe not mate. But I think a lot of people feel like Lee is an honest, stand up guy. And maybe he is, I couldn't say either way. It would just be depressing if the image that is presented was a facade and all those seemingly genuine videos were all completely contrived to make money.

I'm not saying they were, and I'm forever an optimist and am willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but it would be a bit disappointing, wouldn't it.

euan · August 2023

At least Andertons make it clear they are producing product demonstrations.

The Marshall pedal reissue situation showed up a lot of pedal “reviewers” were in fact nothing more the paid demonstrators passing themselves off as reviewers.

AndyGT75 · August 2023

TeleMaster said:

AndyGT75 said:

TeleMaster said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Anyone who thinks that a guitar shop doesn't have a vested interest in selling you the stuff they have in their shop shouldn't be allowed unsupervised access to the internet tbh.

I look forward to his next thrilling expose. "New in at ten: in shocking news, water is wet".

Everyone knows they're selling you stuff, but there's an obvious difference between going, this is a thing we sell, we like it, here's a demo. To, 'here's a thing, we done a review with three amps and it's better than the other amps' and then fails to tell those people that they are investors. These two scenarios are not the same thing just because people like the guy.

If 'anyone' thinks that's fair and right, and it doesn't omit key information, they're the ones who shouldn't be allowed unsupervised access to the Internet.

Is anything ever fair and right? My personal opinion that is pretty much anyone with a business interest is disingenuous to some degree as their overarching aim is to make money. Im
cynical about absolutely every advert, every video and every sales person. I’ll satisfy myself that what I’m purchasing suits my needs before parting with money and I’ll take all the advertising glitz with a big pinch of salt. All these you tubers and social media influencers and everything else, aren’t making content for the good of their health and the advancement of mankind. There’s a motive behind it all.

Maybe not mate. But I think a lot of people feel like Lee is an honest, stand up guy. And maybe he is, I couldn't say either way. It would just be depressing if the image that is presented was a facade and all those seemingly genuine videos were all completely contrived to make money.

I'm not saying they were, and I'm forever an optimist and am willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but it would be a bit disappointing, wouldn't it.

But equally, KDH is making content with a view to make money and will present in a way that advances his own interests. I’m not in any position to say who’s right or wrong tbh. I just don’t know anything beyond what both videos present, and they’ll present what they want you to see. It’s all just the same as it ever was. Business is about making money, not making friends. Remember the old adage, believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see. Unless you halve first hand information on anything, everything that is presented to you could well be bullshit.

Alex2678 · August 2023

It’s naive to think any of the guitar shops make demo vids as a public service

digitalscream · August 2023

AndyGT75 said:

But equally, KDH is making content with a view to make money and will present in a way that advances his own interests. I’m not in any position to say who’s right or wrong tbh.

There's a clear difference. The Andertons videos are about selling products - they say this all the time. That's a reasonable thing to expect a business to do.

KDH's videos are about tearing other people down and hurting their earned reputations in order to make himself money, by manufacturing scandal and twisting information to make them look shady.

Do you think those things are equal from an ethical standpoint (or even one of basic decency)?

OilCityPickups · August 2023

digitalscream said:

AndyGT75 said:

But equally, KDH is making content with a view to make money and will present in a way that advances his own interests. I’m not in any position to say who’s right or wrong tbh.

There's a clear difference. The Andertons videos are about selling products - they say this all the time. That's a reasonable thing to expect a business to do.

KDH's videos are about tearing other people down and hurting their earned reputations in order to make himself money, by manufacturing scandal and twisting information to make them look shady.

Do you think those things are equal from an ethical standpoint (or even one of basic decency)?

You got a wiz from me on that one. I've seldom seen a more negative channel on YouTube than KDH. The chap takes pernicious delight in defecating in everyone's cornflakes for his own pecuniary sustenance. Andertons is a business and Lee is a business man. The open and friendly way he reacted to KDH's questions I think demonstrates that he's probably quite a amiable guy at heart, I think I would have told KDH to go take a flying fornication at a rolling doughnut in his shoes :-)

Sporky · August 2023

To be fair to KDH, he's probably only bright enough to have noticed that negativity is pushed by the YouTube algorithm, and not bright enough to realise that he's being manipulated into it.

Jetfire · August 2023

The only person who has done brutally honest reviews about amps and gear was some guy from Britain who used to take apart brand new amps and review them in his dining room. I can not find his channel anywhere now which is a shame as he didn't mess about.

Petepassion · August 2023

Jetfire said:

The only person who has done brutally honest reviews about amps and gear was some guy from Britain who used to take apart brand new amps and review them in his dining room. I can not find his channel anywhere now which is a shame as he didn't mess about.

Tony McKenzie?

AndyGT75 · August 2023

digitalscream said:

AndyGT75 said:

But equally, KDH is making content with a view to make money and will present in a way that advances his own interests. I’m not in any position to say who’s right or wrong tbh.

There's a clear difference. The Andertons videos are about selling products - they say this all the time. That's a reasonable thing to expect a business to do.

KDH's videos are about tearing other people down and hurting their earned reputations in order to make himself money, by manufacturing scandal and twisting information to make them look shady.

Do you think those things are equal from an ethical standpoint (or even one of basic decency)?

I wasn’t defending KDH. If you read the rest of my post. My personal opinion is that the guy is a negative weasel. I also don’t wholeheartedly believe anything that’s presented to me buy anyone with a vested interest (Lee with victory/ KDH trying to grow his crap channel). You’ll only ever be presented with what they want you to see and know. That’s the same for everything the world over.

impmann · August 2023

Can I suggest a couple of things.

1) anyone who even begins to think that “influencers” are independent, and objective… give your head a wobble. Most YT content is paid for…
2) stop writing stuff about what this chap is up to. He isn’t a journalist, despite what he likes to portray and is getting ‘influence’ by trying to find conspiracies that aren’t really there. By giving him airplay and writing about his spewings, you help his numbers. Say nothing about him and he becomes yet another grumpy conspiracy theorist.

Frankly it’s another load of nothing

Jetfire · August 2023

Petepassion said:

Jetfire said:

The only person who has done brutally honest reviews about amps and gear was some guy from Britain who used to take apart brand new amps and review them in his dining room. I can not find his channel anywhere now which is a shame as he didn't mess about.

Tony McKenzie?

Yes!!!! Thank you!!!!

Petepassion · August 2023

Jetfire said:

Petepassion said:

Jetfire said:

The only person who has done brutally honest reviews about amps and gear was some guy from Britain who used to take apart brand new amps and review them in his dining room. I can not find his channel anywhere now which is a shame as he didn't mess about.

Tony McKenzie?

Yes!!!! Thank you!!!!

He's quite a character, very helpful

Musicman20 · August 2023

Three things:

1. KDH should concentrate on being in a band that doesn't suck.
2. I think the Andertons/Victory connections was fairly obvious years back.
3. Victory amps are a bit 'meh' tonewise for me. Which is a shame. I'd like one of their lunchbox amps but never bonded with the tones. Maybe one day.

Alterlifeson · August 2023

I think KDH has a point here, Victory seem to appear in every amp comparison video with Lee/Rob/Pete exclaiming how good they stack up. I recall a video of a Milkman a Victory and some other boutique amp and the Victory almost seemed out of place in the line up when looking at prices. It was very much a push to say how good the Victory sounded against amps that cost £1000+ more.

Offset · August 2023

I've learned three valuable things from watching that first video.

KDH is a twat.
Jeff Kiesel is an absolutely massive twat.
I'll never buy a Kiesel guitar.

If I never see either of them ever again, it won't be too soon.

Jetfire · August 2023

Is KDH a modern day Roger Cook?

TeleMaster · August 2023

Alterlifeson said:

I think KDH has a point here, Victory seem to appear in every amp comparison video with Lee/Rob/Pete exclaiming how good they stack up. I recall a video of a Milkman a Victory and some other boutique amp and the Victory almost seemed out of place in the line up when looking at prices. It was very much a push to say how good the Victory sounded against amps that cost £1000+ more.

Yea. People are letting their affection for the Andertons people, and their dislike for KDH cloud their judgement. If you are objective here it's pretty clear that presenting comparison videos as neutral whilst being a part owner in one of the products is not ethical.

fretmeister · August 2023

Jetfire said:

Is KDH a modern day Roger Cook?

Not even close.

fretmeister · August 2023

TeleMaster said:

Alterlifeson said:

I think KDH has a point here, Victory seem to appear in every amp comparison video with Lee/Rob/Pete exclaiming how good they stack up. I recall a video of a Milkman a Victory and some other boutique amp and the Victory almost seemed out of place in the line up when looking at prices. It was very much a push to say how good the Victory sounded against amps that cost £1000+ more.

Yea. People are letting their affection for the Andertons people, and their dislike for KDH cloud their judgement. If you are objective here it's pretty clear that presenting comparison videos as neutral whilst being a part owner in one of the products is not ethical. Exposing this is not unethical in the slightest.

But it's not exposing it - plenty of people knew about it.

KDH is pretending he's got an exclusive when he hasn't.

Seziertisch · August 2023

fretmeister said:

TeleMaster said:

Alterlifeson said:

I think KDH has a point here, Victory seem to appear in every amp comparison video with Lee/Rob/Pete exclaiming how good they stack up. I recall a video of a Milkman a Victory and some other boutique amp and the Victory almost seemed out of place in the line up when looking at prices. It was very much a push to say how good the Victory sounded against amps that cost £1000+ more.

Yea. People are letting their affection for the Andertons people, and their dislike for KDH cloud their judgement. If you are objective here it's pretty clear that presenting comparison videos as neutral whilst being a part owner in one of the products is not ethical. Exposing this is not unethical in the slightest.

But it's not exposing it - plenty of people knew about it.

KDH is pretending he's got an exclusive when he hasn't.

The issue isn’t whether plenty of people knew about it. In their videos Lee Anderton very much gives the impression that Victory is just another brand they stock as opposed to one of which he is part owner.

TeleMaster · August 2023

fretmeister said:

TeleMaster said:

Alterlifeson said:

I think KDH has a point here, Victory seem to appear in every amp comparison video with Lee/Rob/Pete exclaiming how good they stack up. I recall a video of a Milkman a Victory and some other boutique amp and the Victory almost seemed out of place in the line up when looking at prices. It was very much a push to say how good the Victory sounded against amps that cost £1000+ more.

Yea. People are letting their affection for the Andertons people, and their dislike for KDH cloud their judgement. If you are objective here it's pretty clear that presenting comparison videos as neutral whilst being a part owner in one of the products is not ethical. Exposing this is not unethical in the slightest.

But it's not exposing it - plenty of people knew about it.

KDH is pretending he's got an exclusive when he hasn't.

Did they though? Wasn't there just the odd rumour about? Looking at the comments on the video, and a thread about this at another popular guitar based gear forum many people didn't seem to know.

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